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Originally posted by Tarnćlion Andiyarus: ** My view? For the moment, leave it in Ambrosia's hands. They have a very good service reputation (at least to me) and are looking into the issues now. **
Well, I do not share that opinion. It takes ages for them to answer a question or even acknowledge that they got mail from you with a serious bug rendering the software useless.
Jeroen Goulooze
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Ambrosia is being very helpful in this matter. Beenox, on the other hand, sucks. :frown:
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The petition has currently gathered 78 signatures. I will be printing it tomorrow and it will be in Tuesday's mail. The email will arrive on Monday evening. If anyone wants to contribute to the accompanying letter (email and snailmail) post comments, etc. here.
For those that haven't signed, but are considering it, this is your last chance!
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Originally posted by ellrx: This will fix a lot of the problems...
What will?
------------------ "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke (attributed)
Re-compiling in the latest version of RB should get rid of a lot of problems. Ell is saying that he is unsure whether that will fix the panther problem or not. I think that they will have to change some of the actual engine which could take a while
------------------ Pilky (url="http://"http://www.mcubed.cjb.net")M cubed homepage(/url) (url="http://"http://www.coldstonerc.cjb.net")Coldstone Resource Centre(/url) Cheesiest film line of all time "Flash I love you but we only have 14 hours to save the earth" from Flash Gorden
Originally posted by Pilky: Re-compiling in the latest version of RB should get rid of a lot of problems.
Perhaps so, though I seem to recall hearing that part of the reason for the lack of updates (at least at one time) was that they couldn't seem to get Coldstone to compile in the latest version of RB at all...
The RB frontEnd is poorly constructed as your Bug list Attests to. This would have me to believe that the last version that CGE was compiled with would be 3.5. This was right before Jaguar came along and broke everything again. Its really not a problem with RealBasic, its the design of the front end. CGE was rushed to the public, under who's pressure its unknown, this is why the help system/documentation is incomplete, some actions have synchronization problems and why certain work practices have to be adopted in order to produce a working game.
RealBasic has since (as of version 5 ) completely rewritten their compiler from the ground up, idealistically if any recompiling/redesigning was to be done it should wait until they've added in optimization in version 6 ( which is just around the corner, they've been at beta 5.5 for some time now ).
I'd like to see some random 3rd party come along with a similar competent product.
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... bwahhaaaaahaaaaaugh fooooolish sammurai.
Well if beenox had to re-make CS in a newer version of RB then I hope that we get informed. Maybe they could ask us for feedback on how to improve the interface and what we would like to be included. After all, we already use CS so we know where it lacks and where we can make it more appealing to new users and hopefully make it more successful. If not then I hope they let someone else develop it. If I had RB and knew how to use it then I would gladly develop it, even if I wasn't getting paid.
Originally posted by LifeKnight: **Wasn't it Ambrosia who put out the 1.0.1 update? How could they release that without haveing the code?
**
For some time, I have wondered about a similar thing for PoG. Here at AmbrosiaSW.com, PoG 1.0.2 (Mac and Windows) can be downloaded whereas at Beenox.com, only PoG 1.0.1 Mac and PoG 1.0 Windows can be downloaded.
Methinks that Beenox is sick of working with Coldstone and Pillars of Garendall. As a result, they have focused on working on other projects. However, I believe that if you create a program, you should fix it so that there will be no problems (especially if you are charging money for the game!!!). Ambrosia has done a very good job with this for games like Apeiron (remember when they made an update several years after it was made so that it would work with USB mice?). I'm sure that Apieron's programmers were sick of working on that game, but they did it anyways and boy, aren't we happy!
Originally posted by ellrx: **This would have me to believe that the last version that CGE was compiled with would be 3.5 **
RB 3.5 came out 8/20/2001 and the most recent non-beta version is 5.2.4, which came out on 11/24/2003. Notice the huge gap in between the two release dates!
By the way, when was the last time that anybody from Beenox has said anything about Coldstone or PoG. David Dunham in November 2002 said that Dee was "working in the office on the weekends to get the problems solved". This was shortly after Coldstone 1.0.1. A year later and we see no update, no response from Beenox, and even Ambrosia has not gotten any news!!!
And now I am done with my rant-like speech which involved statements of facts :).
------------------ Motion is impossible: If an archer fired an arrow at a target, it would have to travel halfway before reaching the target. To reach that distance, the arrow would first need to travel halfway. To reach that distance, the arrow would first need to travel halfway. To reach that distance, the arrow would first need to travel halfway. To reach that distance, the arrow would first need to travel halfway. To reach that distance, the arrow would first need to travel halfway...
(This message has been edited by Thunderforge (edited 11-27-2003).)
As I have said lots of times before. If Ambrosia was to get the CS source code of Beenox and give it to another developer then all would be solve. But this is where we find out that Beenox have not decided to put comments in their code and so dont know what does what
Originally posted by Glenn: **Perhaps so, though I seem to recall hearing that part of the reason for the lack of updates (at least at one time) was that they couldn't seem to get Coldstone to compile in the latest version of RB at all...
This has been fixed in June this year by the people at RB. That's what someone at the support desk of RB said to me.
Originally posted by Pilky: **As I have said lots of times before. If Ambrosia was to get the CS source code of Beenox and give it to another developer then all would be solve. But this is where we find out that Beenox have not decided to put comments in their code and so dont know what does what
I would assume that this would probably be illegal. It is logical to presume that Beenox owns the actual source code to Coldstone & it's related objects/artifacts, and that Ambrosia owns the rights to publish the developed/finished application. Hence, Ambrosia wouldn't have the source code, and even if they did, they would need the legal permission of Beenox to release it - and would still need to pay Beenox royalties for using the code, on top of whatever they agree to pay the new developer to 'fix' the code.
At least, that's my personal view. I could be wrong, perhaps Ambrosia includes a clause in their developer agreements that grants them the exclusive rights to utilise any source code that they publish as they see fit. But I highly doubt it.
-Andiyar
------------------ "Any good that I may do here, let me do now, for I may not pass this way again"
he meant : If Ambrosia was to get the CS source code of f Beenox
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As CGE existed 5+ years before Ambrosia published it, its unlikely that they would have a legitimate clause that would grant them rights to the sourceCode/CodeBase. Meaning since they didn't commission teh work they can't claim the digitally ancient source as work product.
bingo ThunderForge, the last update of CGE was around July 2001, And I believe there was a mix up with the files so it was resubmitted in August. CGE was built with somehting close to v3.5 if we're lucky ;).
Do keep in mind most of the existing mac user base has not upgraded to Jaguar let alone Panther teh numbers in 9 are likely to still be around 60-70%(early last year i believe it was 80%). Alongside that teh number of people who run classic emulation on their more than capable OSX macs is a more than reasonable number.
However we are excluded from the new users, keep in mind that i am not referring to marketshare or the like, just the fact that you can't share your labor with the new kids.
But if the numbers still work for you, then your games might not have the longLife that you had hoped for, but they are still functional product*.
( *unless of course you can't get CGE itself to run right now, then :: pacMan death sound :: )
Originally posted by dampeoples: **In my opinion, a petition is the wrong way to go about getting beenox to update their application. A lawsuit would be better. Everyone here has a certain amount of money invested, and an untold amount of time.
i agree. someone ready with a class action?
was wondering. someone mentioned that Coldstone works in Classic. I've installed the OSX version, which broke with Panther. Any thoughts on how i can set it up so i can work with it in Classic? or is it just not worth it?
I personally am working under 10.2.4 but i long since tossed the OSX version, i just have classic start at booting, and i run the 9 version in classic emulation.
Assuming they haven't changed everything around just go to your systemprefs and launch 'classic mode', don't boot up under 9.
I'd say bother with it if you've spent the money
Well CS itself should work in panther. If you mean the games then all you have to do is click on the app once (assuming this is a carbon app), press command-i, and then check "Open in classic environment".
I have to say that Ell is right about the number of people using panther. Now CS games wont run in Panther or other OS's like Linux. They will however run on windows, classic and OSX 10.0 - 10.2.8.
Now the market shares are something like below: Windows 95% Mac OS 4% Other OS's 1%
Now if about 80% of Mac users still use classic that means that 20% use OSX. This means that OSX has a market share of 0.8% Now as Panther is very new and not many people have bought it yet lets give it a 0.1% market share
All this means is that your games should still work on 98.9% of all computers out there
Wonderful, in theory. However, his games will probably target an internet audience more, and those with access to the internet often are more likely to buy upgrades sooner (get information faster, learn about the stuff sooner, easier to purchase online, etc.).
Therefore, I'd say for his audience it might be more like this: Mac 8.5%, PC 90%, others 1.5%. In the Mac section: 60% OS 9, Mac OS 10.0-10.1: 5%, 10.2: 20%, 10.3: 15%.
These are pure speculation and guesswork, by no means facts. My point is that statistics on who owns what are not the statistics that determine who buys the game. You need to determine a target audience first...
I'd say that most mac users who play games are using or plan to use Panther. The figures stated before are probably correct but a large proportion of macs that havent been upgraded are going to be in studios and offices.
Then there's the fact that it would be totally unprofessional to release a game thats not compatible with the current OS...