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Originally posted by Bomb: ****Wow. Ok, good. A lot to discuss here. First of all, I like some of your ideas Raemon- but I disagree with your starting point (i.e after Brood War) I think some of the most dynamic and interesting things happen in the original game (though the Dark Templar **** is cool as hell) like the fall of the Confederacy, the rise of the Sons of Korhal, the invasion of Aiur, the fall of the first Overmind. I've got literally hundreds of ideas on storylines/missions/overall scenario things, but who doesn't? I think before we get ahead of ourselves here we need to figure out who has serious interest in making the scenario, as opposed to idle dreaming, which is what we're doing right now... If thats all we want to do, thats fine, but I'd at least like to try and give this a serious run.
Oh, and karma points are still up for grabs for eye candy.
_bomb
Yea, I'd make a ship, but I'm too busy right now. Just starting a new school quarter and I'm still trying to figure out where I have time and where I don't.
Matrix
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(url="http://"http://evula.org/artanis/StarcraftNovaWebsite/Index.htm")Website?(/url)
Never made a TC site before, so I used the Sephil Saga and Star Wars ones as examples. It has almost no content and desperately needs graphics.
Jules: I'd like to put your Wraith in. Do you mind?
(edit: It no longer desperately needs graphics. But it still has almost no content.)
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(This message has been edited by Artanis (edited 04-10-2004).)
Originally posted by Artanis: Jules: I'd like to put your Wraith in. Do you mind?
I don't mind, but wouldn't you prefer to wait for a textured version?
------------------ 'It's only when you look at an ant through a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames' - Harry Hill
Sure.
This is a model of the corsair...or very loosely based on the corsair, as my best refernce is the in game ship. It´s not yet properly textured or detailed. I will do that soon.
------------------ And then there were silence.................
(This message has been edited by modesty_blaise_us (edited 04-10-2004).)
Again, very nice graphics.
I'd be willing to do the descs, and would certainly like to contribute to the overall design. But I'm working off a 56k, so I'd prefer it if we stuck with just using the gov't ship coloring shortcut. It won't make that much difference, but the download time saved could be significant. Don't alienate the 56k-ers. There are more of them than you'd think.
I actually didn't really like the way the vellos handled getting bigger ships. Especially the new weapons: you didn't get to customize your ship at all. Here are a few other ways to do the Zerg:
If we're going with multiple character starting points, we could make the "Zerg" character either a larvae that can infest other ships/creatures somehow, or we could make it so that your "character" is actually a hive or a cerebrate. As such, at Zerg worlds, you can somehow purchase new genetic material with which to spawn ships (fighter bays) or biological weapons. You can also eventually "evolve" into a better hatchery (Lair, then Hive). I think this is the best and easiest to work with way. It doesn't quite mesh with the original Zerg biology, but I don't think it's too hard to imagine.
If we use a single character (a Terran), he or she can eventually be infested by the Zerg during a mission. After that point, they gain access to Zerg evolutions, and could eventually mutate into some really weird abomination.
If we go with the mobile overlord/hatchery (I think that is best), then here are some more specifics:
Ships: Overlord (start)
Hatchery (Evolution from Overlord, includes Ventral Sacs)
Lair (Evolution from Hatchery, higher armor and more "weapon" space for a better variety of carried ships)
Hive (Evolution from Lair, slower but vastly increased armor and natural weapons)
Hyperlisk (Evolution from Overlord, warp capability and faster)
Warp Mother (Evolution from Hyperlisk, better warp capability and natural weapons, Ventral Sacs)
Outfits Ventral Sacs: Increases cargo capacity and allows you to grow "spawning" organelles.
Mutalisk Spawn Tissue: Special organ that allows you to grow Mutalisks and launch them. Guardian/Devourer/Scourge Spawn Tissue: Like Mutalisk Spawn Tissue. Glaive Wurm: Originally used by the Mutalisk, this biological weapon has been modified for use with Overlords... for no real reason other than to make the game interesting. Psychic Probe: Gives you better sensory perception (IFF, Grav-sensors) Warp Gland: This organ gives you the ability to jump from Star to Star like a human or protoss vessel.
As for warp capability, here are my ideas: At the games start, as an Overlord, you have no warp capability. But Zerg controlled worlds have a "second port" which is a nydus canal. So if you start at Char, you can either land on Char, or you can land on another spob identical to Char that's called "Char Canal Entrace," which functions as a hypergate. With the Nydus canals, you can travel throughout Zerg infested worlds. To get into Terran space, you use one of a few wormholes that the Zerg control. If you evolve into a hyperlisk, or simply grow a Warp gland, you gain limited faster than light travel and have more versatility when traveling.
------------------ Raemon's Law: Given a lack of better things to do, a group of webboard goers with way too much time on their hands will tend to develop web pages loaded with useless information on webboard dynamic theory.
I think there's enough talent going around that we should be able to pull this off. I think we should figure out exactly who is willing to do what, and come up with a list of things that need to be done.
Graphics (Since we have a lot of people who seem to want to do this, this can be subdivided into individual ships.) Universe Layout (spobs and systs) Outfits and/or Ship design (techie stuff, not graphics) Missions (Like Graphics, we might be able to divide this into different parts for different people, if different people want to do it. Maybe one person do each campaign)
I recommend starting small. We really can probably ignore the Zerg for now. If we focus on completing one campaign/race at a time, then even if it doesn't grow to be a big grandiose TC, at least we'll have a livable universe with playable ships and a single engrossing mission string.
More details and textures..
I like your ideas Raemon, though modeling some of the ships are going to be a difficult job.. Battle cruiser and Carrier beeing the worst, along with all zerg ships. Organic modeling is difficult.
Just being able to fly starcraft ships in nova would be cool.
(This message has been edited by modesty_blaise_us (edited 04-11-2004).)
Thats not what the corsair looks like at all. When i get a pic from blizzard on it, ill post it.
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Originally posted by The Cheat: **Thats not what the corsair looks like at all. When i get a pic from blizzard on it, ill post it. **
Yeah, but its quite cool none the less. My major problem with it was the colour of the textures and the lack of light being cast from those high intensity glows Perhaps it could be used as some sort of Protos Freighter...
Originally posted by Raemon: **I think there's enough talent going around that we should be able to pull this off. I think we should figure out exactly who is willing to do what, and come up with a list of things that need to be done.
Graphics (Since we have a lot of people who seem to want to do this, this can be subdivided into individual ships.) Universe Layout (spobs and systs) Outfits and/or Ship design (techie stuff, not graphics) Missions (Like Graphics, we might be able to divide this into different parts for different people, if different people want to do it. Maybe one person do each campaign) <snip>**
This whole thing sounds like such a great idea that I'll volunteer my services. I do the behind-the-scenes type of work, with the ncbs and anything and everything that doesn't involve graphics or story. I also used to be an avid SC:BW map maker, before I uninstalled OS9 and StarEdit Emerald with it, so I have a feel for good balances between different ships and the races.
Like Raemon suggested, I recommend working on the Terran and Protoss first, and then the Zerg.
That corsair still looked awesome, even if it wasn't really a corsair according to Blizzard.
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There are enough good graphics in Nova that we can just recycle the spins for the few ships that are too complicated to do. Polaris craft and Wraiths work perfectly for the Zerg, (even if, as a race, they are more like the Protoss), and the Pirate Carrier looks reasonably like a Battlecruiser. Protoss ships are the only thing that Nova doesn't easily supply.
Keep in mind also that we can use actual StarCraft spins. The aborted other StarCraft TC that someone already mentioned has the Carrier, Battlecruiser, Valkrie and a few other ships that seem to be taken directly from the StarCraft resource files and remodeled for use in EV. They all work beautifully. The only problem is they are slightly more cartoonish than the typical EV graphics, so they'll look slightly out of place compared to the graphics you guys have come up with so far.
Now, this is the first time I've worked on a collective TC. I've done my own before, but have never had to deal with working out exactly who does what. Who here has done TCs before with multiple helpers, and does anyone have any ideas on how to actually get started? Graphics people can just start doing graphics for individual ships, without worrying at first about how to link it all up. What about Krypt-tokh and myself?
Originally posted by Raemon: **There are enough good graphics in Nova that we can just recycle the spins for the few ships that are too complicated to do. Polaris craft and Wraiths work perfectly for the Zerg, (even if, as a race, they are more like the Protoss), and the Pirate Carrier looks reasonably like a Battlecruiser. Protoss ships are the only thing that Nova doesn't easily supply.
Now, this is the first time I've worked on a collective TC. I've done my own before, but have never had to deal with working out exactly who does what. Who here has done TCs before with multiple helpers, and does anyone have any ideas on how to actually get started? Graphics people can just start doing graphics for individual ships, without worrying at first about how to link it all up. What about Krypt-tokh and myself?**
I suggest we split up the graphics as per race. One person doing Protos, one doing Terran, etc. We would have to establish a lighting standard so that the ships all look like they are meant to be in the same game, but that is easy to do. Some kind of artistic director would need to be appointed to keep quality control on things. Personally I would vote for Captain Skyblade for this. He has a good sense of what looks good where and would be able to provide good pointers for things
Originally posted by Raemon: **< snip> Now, this is the first time I've worked on a collective TC. I've done my own before, but have never had to deal with working out exactly who does what. Who here has done TCs before with multiple helpers, and does anyone have any ideas on how to actually get started? Graphics people can just start doing graphics for individual ships, without worrying at first about how to link it all up. What about Krypt-tokh and myself?
**
I've worked on two TCs, one with about five developers including myself and the other with close to 15, though many are graphics people. Never been a project lead, however, so I can't tell you how to start, though Jules seemed to have some nice ideas. Normally I don't contribute much to the actual size of the TC until later on when the more creative members have come up with things for me to put into the data files (ie. ship strengths, spobs, etc.). In the beginning I'm usually more of a concept person, my work can't be measured.
Originally posted by Jules: **Yeah, but its quite cool none the less. My major problem with it was the colour of the textures and the lack of light being cast from those high intensity glows:p Perhaps it could be used as some sort of Protos Freighter...
tried to stay true to the original, and did only had the in game pict as reference.. The lights and textures are no problem to fix. The of color issue is caused by the fact that my glows cast blue light, The glows cast lots of light, maybe i´ll change it to white. ------------------ And then there were silence.................
Originally posted by modesty_blaise_us: tried to stay true to the original, and did only had the in game pict as reference.. The lights and textures are no problem to fix. The of color issue is caused by the fact that my glows cast blue light, The glows cast lots of light, maybe i´ll change it to white.
Try setting your color in the General tab of the light properties, and setting the brightness of the glow in the Visible Light tab. If you leave the color brightness at 100%, you can simulate the glow of a 200% bright light without the 200% illumination by setting the Visible Light brightness to 200% Or you can change color brightness to 10% for a dim light, but set the Visible Light brightness to 2000% to maintain the 200% bright look.
If Krypt-Tokh6 is serious about the nbc work, then I suppose it makes most sense for us to each do our individual things, and then send them to him to put together.
Here's some more concrete storyline ideas, subject to your critique. Also, let me know if my ideas conflict at any point with the original storyline.
Set the storyline just after Mengsk's rise to power. The period of Terran history just after the form of the Dominion isn't totally written out in stone and there is a lot of unknown stuff that we can play around with.
Major Mission Strings:
Teaming up with Raynor and Liberty:
This begins with transporting Micheal Liberty, the reporter from Liberty's Crusade, to some world not under Mengsk's total control where he can broadcast his personal history of the war. You then part ways for a while, until you meet up with him again on some other planet (After you've built up a decent combat rating). He's recieved a message from Raynor, who is fighting against the Dominion, and needs some help. You fly Liberty to that planet, where you must disable and conquer the Battlecruiser Hyperion, which is the base of the blockade against Raynor (It's never really explained in the storyline how Raynor gets the Hyperion, so this takes care of that. I'm not sure whether Raynor then commands the Hyperion as a permanent escort, or you gain control of it)
After that, Raynor explains these dreams he's been having, and urges you to travel to a zerg infested world. There you meet Kerrigan, and she and Raynor act out some pent up frustrations. Later, you are rescued by Tassadar, yadda yadda. I can't remember the exact details of how that worked, and my friend is currently borrowing my CD and strat guide, so Ill work out the specifics later. This culminates with you returning to Aiur and finishing up with the Protoss Campaign.
The Dark Templar:
This is available if you're a protoss player. You begin as a member of the worker class, doing boring trade stuff. The string starts with a shady deal with some guy who wants to do some "slightly illegal" trading with some "friends." You are sent to a world you haven't heard of to pick up a package that is left for you. Later on, you learn that this illegal trade is with the Dark Templar, and some spiffy Void Crystal or whatever they use to power their ships. You eventually meet the Dark Templar, and do some missions for them. The Dark Templar enclave is eventually discovered by forces loyal to the Judicator. You find the remaining survivors who have fled into the shadows and remained cloaked. But their base and ships have been destroyed. You must transport them to an uninhabited world, where they plan to meet with Tassadar, who has had some limited contact with them.
At this point, it would make most sense to have them meet up with Raynor and Co, and then follow more or less the same storyline, although with different specific missions. It does seem to me that there should be more than one possible string for each race, but I'm not sure how to do that while remaining true to the storyline. I think we could make it up instead with side missions that aren't as involved, but give you some other options.
Side Mission Ideas:
ATLAS:
It's never explained why the ATLAS computer shut down en route to Gantris V. I think there should be a Terran side string where you meet up with a group of scientists trying to figure out what went wrong. They figure out where the ships were when ATLAS shut down, and work to create a temporary wormhole that will take you there without spending 30 years in Warp Drive. You go there, and find an artificial planet with some kind of anti-electronic field thingy that messed up the computers as they passed near it. It turns out to be a Xel'Naga experiment, some sort of creature that they grew. It hatches while you are on the planet, and you can just watch it fly away or attack it or whatever.
Umoja:
The Umoja Protectorate is never even mentioned in the Campaigns. I figure we should do something with it. Mengsk has gained control of every Terran in the Koprulu sector, or so they say, and Umoja may want to regain independence. You could start by rescuing an Umoja spy on Korhal and returning them to Umoja. Then you help them make contact with Tassadar, who agrees to help them. Mengsk has gotten wind of your plans and has sent a fleet to secure Umoja (it's a planet, right? I'm not sure) and you must destroy Mengsk's fleet and then prepare the major population centers of Umoja for a Mass Recall.
Early Works of Duran:
This Protoss character mission involves a shady deal with a Terran by the name of Duran. He simply wants to acquire a number of Protoss currently in cryostasis (preparing to be dragoonized). He offers a sizable reward: a number of Khaydarin crystals not from Aiur. Since Khaydarin crystals are pretty rare as well as necessary for Protoss operations, it looks like a pretty good deal. At first.
That's all I have time for now. Comments are appreciated.
Originally posted by Raemon: < snip>
Those sound great.
I've been thinking about describing the canon storyline from multiple viewpoints, not unlike what Sephil Saga is doing. It feels like the method best fits the story structure of the original game, since you play multiple viewpoints there as well, but it would be strange to start as a terran magistrate, and all of a sudden you are a new zerg cerebrate and then a protoss executor fighting the zerg.
Even here, there are lots of places for new material. What are the protoss and zerg doing while the Sons of Korhal fight with the Confederacy? What are Raynor and the Protoss doing while Kerrigan is being infested? What is Arcturus doing while the Protoss and Raynor fight the zerg on Auir? With the introduction of the UED, Duran, the fracturing of the zerg, and the new group of protoss in the Brood War campaigns, there is even more downtime for us to play with. Essentially, each races campaign is a third of the story. And the terran and zerg ones follow factions of their respective races. We know where each race needs to be for every mission in the campaigns. How do they get to that position?
Those questions are important if we want to define strings that follow the original story, and are still important if we set our story after Brood War because we need to know where all to forces are standing, who controls what, ect.
I've come to agree that the game should be set during the original StarCraft. After Brood War, everything interesting that we know about has already happened. We'd have to make up an entire story basically from scratch. Which can be fun, of course, but the point here is to make a good StarCraft TC, not a TC that happens too use StarCraft as a jumping point.
If you want to go with multiple campaigns, here's yet another story idea: divide the game into three acts, with one giant mission string. In Act One, you are a Terran. Act Two begins when you are infested by the Zerg. Act Three begins when you are rescued by the protoss.
I think that has potential, also, but the best solution, I think, was my last reply, with one major string for each race that each start out right after Mengsk's rise to the throne. I'm still working on a zerg storyline. Those are a little harder to do.
Grrr, you beat me to the Wraith
Looks awsome Jules... you use Wings 3D to model you ships, right? It's sort of laggy on my iMac.
Raemon everything so far looks good... I am not as experienced with 3D modeling as say Jules, but I will still help. I will start today on probably the Scout, and I will have a rendered pic up today or tomarrow.
------------------ EV Nova is like digital crack, and I am addicted.