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Originally posted by Soviet mikee: **Or if someone at our local computer store happens to have one, wink wink
Seriously though, I saw DP3 as a major disappointment. It didn't run anything, it had an annoying Apple logo that didn't do anything. Not only that, but you can't even dial up an ISP or anyone with it yet. Do I even need to mention the unchangable fruity interface?
I think I will be sticking with OS 8/9 for quite some time... not worth even the time to install.... not even mentioning the $90+ or so it will cost when Linux has more applications than OS X. **
Truly an unenlightened attitude. DP 3 was a DEVELOPER PREVIEW. It was never meant for use by average folks; in fact, it was very unusable as an OS by anyone due to its incomplete nature.
It was provided solely for developers to get up to speed on the new APIs, libraries, etc. I find it highly entertaining that people who used a developer preview of the OS for a few minutes actually have the nerve to publically bash it.
However, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. "Tear it down" and all that. Yeah, constructive.
------------------ Andrew Welch / el Presidente / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
Originally posted by andrew: **Truly an unenlightened attitude. ... However, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. "Tear it down" and all that. Yeah, constructive.
**
Hehe. Mikee, I don't think andrew likes you.
------------------ God. Root. What is difference? -Pitr
AIM: obormot345
Originally posted by Obormot: **Hehe. Mikee, I don't think andrew likes you.:p
No, I have nothing against Mikee personally; I just don't like the extremist stance based on a very "not ready for prime-time" version of the OS.
Hey, this just popped into my mind:
Is there some way to "restart" the Classic part of the OS if it crashes? JUST the Classic part, all the while being allowed to do everything else on the computer? Do you know andrew?
Does anyone think this might be a good feature if it were implemented?
------------------ From Left Hand Phoenix of the AWL (url="http://"http://www.awl.cjb.net/")http://www.awl.cjb.net/(/url) Halo, Homeworld, and Diablo II.
(This message has been edited by Phoenix155 (edited 05-25-2000).)
yup...you can restart the classic...I saw a screenshot of it at MacOSRumors using DP4.
------------------ One ear for me... ...one ear for you... One ear for me... another ear for you... And anot...
Originally posted by andrew: **Truly an unenlightened attitude. DP 3 was a DEVELOPER PREVIEW. It was never meant for use by average folks; in fact, it was very unusable as an OS by anyone due to its incomplete nature.
The fruity interface was announced by Apple and shown to average folks. Apple announced that is how it was going to look and that is was going to stay, meaning it will not be changable. The Apple logo is staying the way it is. I am not even going to talk about the 'Dock' which is now looking more like the Windows taskbar than NeXTSTEP's.
Did I mention how long I used it? Or if I had it? No. You are assuming.
Everything I said was based on what IS known about OS X to the public. From the classic enviroment to the fruity interface.
It doesn't have very many apps right now, nor will it when it is released. It is a brand new OS that runs OS 9 on top of it.
I have alot of things I LIKE about it too. No more conflicting extensions, all 'extensions' don't have to be loaded at the same time and waste resources. It is stable as hell, just like the server addition.
It would probably be alot better if Jobs wasn't there to ruin it like he did his own company.
------------------ tear it down / AIM: G2uidehatr
Exactly what do you mean by this? If you are referring to Pixar, Steve Jobs has made that company a complete success! Also, if not for the iMac (Which, I understand, he helped design) Apple would have been down the tubes a long time ago! I personally see him as a type of Savior of Apple! (And NO, I don;t worship him in any way shape or form!)
Check my sig:
Originally posted by Soviet mikee: **The fruity interface was announced by Apple and shown to average folks. Apple announced that is how it was going to look and that is was going to stay, meaning it will not be changable. The Apple logo is staying the way it is. I am not even going to talk about the 'Dock' which is now looking more like the Windows taskbar than NeXTSTEP's.
Well, since you seem to know it all about OS X, I won't bother correcting your mistakes and false assumptions (and they are legion).
Oh what do I know, I only have dp4 installed on my daily work machine.
Hi everyone. Sorry it took so long to reply, but have been busy lately. As to the changes on OSX, here is where it stands so far. Mr. Welch is correct in that it is a developer release, but he is overlooking (or failed to mention ) one important thing. The whole point, at least for Apple, on developer releases is to get the interest NOT ONLY of developers (such as Microsoft, Macromedia, etc.) but to also spark a new interest into computer owners themselves, such as the average international family. If this were not true, then what would be the point of designing a new interface? None, an interface is hardly the main concern of a developer. So, of course a developers release is meant to be important to the public. Secondly, as of the latest Developer Release, while the actual eye-candy is the same, (and as of this week is supposed to be the final look for OS X, give or take a few (very few) color choices), the major code has had quite a large overhaul. THE DESKTOP IS RETURNING!!!!!!!! Yes, all family oriented users can rejoice! You will once again be able to use the Desktop as you can on OS 8 and 9 (9 is plauged with small errors though, consider staying away from it, but that is another topic all together ). While the desktop will remain unchanged in its function, the actual Finder, that application located in your System Folder, will not be. The whole scheme behind the "Dock" is still an integeral part of OS X. Along that line, as in OS 8.5 where you can choose to use a SIMPLE FIINDER, or the FULL FINDER, why not simply allow users to choose between a DOCK, or the ORIGIONAL FINDER? That way, those who prefer the whole WINDOWS setup can be at home, and those of us (myself included) that prefer the Finder of systems long gone will feel quite at home. Oh hacking Unix, I myself do not claim to be a hacker of any sort, but from a few of my friends and associates, a Unix database or file structure is much easier to hack than a Macintosh OS. A friend of mine who owns a copy of Macintosh OS X Server put it up on a local area network, using a 500mhz G4, 364mb of RAM. He then allowed a few well known less-than-honest fellows (hackers by trade ) to attempt to break into it. In just over 4 days of continues hack attempts, only by using multiple IP nukes and bombers where they able to significantly slow down the OS, nothing more. Unix systems however, like Windows NT, can be hacked quite easily through forgotten back doors of programmers or simple problems with code, as many governmental and buisness assocations have discovered over the last two years. Unix does have its advantages yes, but for security purposes, which is one reason why Mac OS servers are quite popular, it has major flaws. Attempting to write programs with Unix based code and certain kernels or shells is quite useful, but turning the Mac into a colorful Unix is not really what we are looking for, is it? Therefore, I would say that userwise, many of us will not see or be effected by OS X programming changes (if the desktop does remain as planned and something about the whole "Dock" or "Application Browser" is changed to allow familiar OS abilities), then OS X would seem like a solid $100-$150 investment. Others of us though, along the programming route many notice substantial changes in the way we work. With time, we can adjust, and while not convenient, the pluses theoretically outway the negatives. As usual though, Developers releases are in DEVELOPMENT, so anything can happen. Until I hear different, I would say OS X is becoming a better investment every day!
(Excuse any spelling mistakes I may have made, and I apologize for this great length, but I hope that my knowledge can enrich the opinions of others in a positive way.)
------------------ As I travel through the gates of hell to face the deamons, I know my knife is by my side, and that all hell can't stop me
Originally posted by Phoenix155: **Exactly what do you mean by this? If you are referring to Pixar, Steve Jobs has made that company a complete success! Also, if not for the iMac (Which, I understand, he helped design) Apple would have been down the tubes a long time ago! I personally see him as a type of Savior of Apple! (And NO, I don;t worship him in any way shape or form!)
I was refering to NeXT. That moron spent $100,000 on the NeXT logo alone. He harrassed his employees and drove the company in which he started $7 million with into the ground, then got Apple to buy it instead of the smarter choice, BeInc.
Steve Jobs had nothing to do with the iMac except the idea to make a new version of the original Macintosh but 'cuter'.
Do you know WHY the iMac is the #1 selling Apple computer? BECAUSE IT IS THE ONLY ONE THEY OFFER TO CONSUMERS! The towers are for Professionals. If Ford decided to make only one car, it would be the #1 selling car too.
**** Apple for not giving consumers more choices.
Originally posted by Soviet mikee: ** I was refering to NeXT. That moron spent $100,000 on the NeXT logo alone. He harrassed his employees and drove the company in which he started $7 million with into the ground, then got Apple to buy it instead of the smarter choice, BeInc.
Soviet mikee, First of all, Apple does not make just the iMac computer, a simple trip to the Apple store (store.apple.com) should clear up an misgivings you may have. As it is, out of the G4, iMac, G3 (when the iMac first appeared) iBook and PowerBook, the iMac is #1. So, if Ford made 5 cars and the Taurus was #1, wouldn't it fairly be the best selling car Ford made? Secondly, Steve Jobs is hardly a moron. Firstly, he invented the first Apple computer, so along that line of simple logic, he therefore had a great impact on the iMac. Without his actions 20 odd years ago, the iMac would not have existed, would it? Thirdly, many of NeXT's ideas in their proposed OS were not only integeral parts of OS 8, 8.5 and 9, but they also play a major role in OS X's main architecture to date.
You don't really have an argument here, just simple heated opinions backed up by blatently false "facts". Please try to do simple research before openly blasted a multi-millionare. If he was a moron, would he be that rich?
Originally posted by BackSTABa: **Secondly, Steve Jobs is hardly a moron. Firstly, he invented the first Apple computer, so along that line of simple logic, he therefore had a great impact on the iMac. Without his actions 20 odd years ago, the iMac would not have existed, would it?
Um, Steve Jobs didn't invent the first Mac. The hardware and software were invented by Burrell Smith, Bill Atkinson, Steve Capps, and the rest of the Mac division. Jobs just put himself in charge of the division; he had little or nothing to do with its formation. Of course, if you wanted to go waaay back, then you could probably say the Mac was invented by jef Raskin, but all of that would take forever to explain.
I was going to say something similar to what BackSTABa said, but he pretty much summed up what I was thinking as well, and added a lot to it.
Damn, I wish I knew as much as you guys did!
If anyone is interested in some great rumor boards, go to (url="http://"http://forum.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi")http://forum.applein...in/Ultimate.cgi(/url) the people there are very nice (at least to me) and some give very good and accurate information.
Originally posted by BackSTABa: Soviet mikee, First of all, Apple does not make just the iMac computer, a simple trip to the Apple store (store.apple.com) should clear up an misgivings you may have. As it is, out of the G4, iMac, G3 (when the iMac first appeared) iBook and PowerBook, the iMac is #1.
----I said COMSUMERS and made a dividing line between consumer (ie iMac) and professional (G4). The iBook is a consumer portable and is nothing more than a portable iMac. What I was refering to was the difference in how companies like Gateway and Dell...etc... offer a variety of under $1500 computers aimed at comsumers, not professionals. The Quadra for example, was a "box" that you could change around and expand as you saw fit... and YOU being the consumer, not someone who could afford a G4. Apple divides their computer market with portable/home and comsumer/prof.
Secondly, Steve Jobs is hardly a moron. Firstly, he invented the first Apple computer, so along that line of simple logic, he therefore had a great impact on the iMac. Without his actions 20 odd years ago, the iMac would not have existed, would it?
------Steve Jobs has NEVER invented a computer. The original Apple was designed by Woz who is about the only "leader" in Apple who was really a great person. He wasn't interested in money. All Jobs did was find a way to duplicate the computers Woz was making for his fellow college students. Apple was already working on the iMac long before Jobs return. Many schools has all-in-one Macs, consumers requested they be able to buy one, so a new design was made, Jobs wanted it to be fruity and so the iMac was born.
Thirdly, many of NeXT's ideas in their proposed OS were not only integeral parts of OS 8, 8.5 and 9, but they also play a major role in OS X's main architecture to date.
---And these ideas were from everyone BUT Jobs, those people would of worked for BeOS, Apple or MS... so they would still be there.
You didn't even know that WOZ invented the Apple. And Jobs is a multi-billionaire. All Jobs did was take credit for other people's work. Anyone who spends $100000 and abuses his employees is not only a moron, but a total pr*ck.
I think it is you who needs to check his facts
Originally posted by Soviet mikee: **All Jobs did was take credit for other people's work. Anyone who spends $100000 and abuses his employees is not only a moron, but a total pr*ck.
I think it is you who needs to check his facts =)**
Believe it or not, Steve's improved in the past 2 decades. Maybe YOU should check your facts, and NOT from an anti/pro-Mac site and one that gets its information from the present, rather than being 20 years off. =P
------------------ OpenGL Avara!
AIM: EVAndrewM
"I haven't seen myself lately, AndrewM." Ā GreenYO, #ev
Wow, Soviet Mikee. You really hate Steve Jobs and Mac OS X! (I totally disagree with you). But things are not going to change, Mac OS X (and Steve Jobs) is the future for Apple and the macintosh, and if you can't live with that then the only thing you can do is buy a PC....terrible thought though...
------------------
Originally posted by Captain Apple: **Wow, Soviet Mikee. You really hate Steve Jobs and Mac OS X! (I totally disagree with you). But things are not going to change, Mac OS X (and Steve Jobs) is the future for Apple and the macintosh, and if you can't live with that then the only thing you can do is buy a PC....terrible thought though...
Ah, look. Two point on which I rather agree with mikee. First is this: Steve Jobs, I think (despite the fact that he seems to have turned the company around. note: seems) is turning Apple into your average PC company. Mac are becoming obsolete in twice the previous time now. (Seriously, my friends and I actually computed this). By obsolete, I mean totally unable to run the latest OS.
Point number two: the prospect of buying a PC. It's not so bad. Although I think Windows is crap, I'd just wipe the hard drive and install Debian with KDE, along with the BeOS. Also, PC's are much cheaper, and you can build one yourself, with total control of its every feature. Hey, if the Mac OS is becoming so much less Mac-like, why should I stick with it?
Well, Obermot. This is so sad!! You would have to live without Escape Velocity! I know this is not a macintosh/Apple board, but still...
So you hate Steve Jobs too and blame him for all evil in the world, such as computers becoming obsolete...well that's your opinion... really, if SJ had not changed the way Apple do business, there wouldn't even be a company called Apple computer today, and I don't think he has turned it in to "an average" company, Apple still innovates and make great computers. Also I'm looking very much forward to the Mac OS X BETA! (not the DP's).
Go ahead, buy your wonderfull PC, that never gets obsolete...I'm sticking to macintosh and Escape Velocity
Originally posted by Captain Apple: **Well, Obermot. This is so sad!! You would have to live without Escape Velocity! I know this is not a macintosh/Apple board, but still...
Please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I'll do that myself, thank you. First, I don't hate Jobs and think he's evil. I respect him, even if I sometimes disagree with his policies. Macs becoming obsolete faster is simply a function of Apple's current policy of upgrading the OS much faster than before, without an appropriate change in hardware development speed.
Second, I have nothing major against OS X, and I think Macs, as computers, are great. However, I wish Apple would reconsider its current direction in OS development. Maybe a layered design; a development OS such as OS X, but without some of the home-user stuff; and another, totally separated "layer" for home users. Or something like that.
As for PCs, they become obsolete even faster than Macs. What I'm saying is that they just might be better for a Linux-based programmer/developer like me (in the future. right now I'm only learning). My ideal combination is a Mac laptop and a decked-out PC with Linux.
Oh, and one moe thing: it's Obormot, not Obermot.
Well, I'm sorry to have offended you Obormot! but your post just sounded like mac-bashing to me and that offended me!! ( Yes, I admit I'm a stalwart mac-defender, I can't help it, it's just the way I am - always defending things I like :)) your last post cleared things up however, although I still disagree with you. please accept my apologies for misspelling your name, that was not intensional.
(This message has been edited by Captain Apple (edited 05-27-2000).)