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Quake Warstation Cargo: 800 Shield: 4,000 Armor: 1,500 Regen: 400 Accel: 0 Speed: 0 Turn: 6 Fuel: 800000 Space: 600 Weapons: 2 Turreted Disruption Beams 14 Disrupter Turrets 8 Disruption Tubes + 120 Disruption Torpedos Refueling Bay Outfitter Shipyard
Cost: 70,000,000 Construction: 7 Days
Any objections? Thoughts?
EDIT 2: I kept meaning to specify that this is a Stardock Class station... Kept forgetting too. Sorry for any mix-ups. ------------------ Insanity has its advantages "I- I Swear Officer.. The Dwarf was on fire when I got here!"
(This message has been edited by U.E. Admiral (edited 08-22-2004).)
(This message has been edited by U.E. Admiral (edited 08-24-2004).)
New research: Bofors cannon
Speed: 700 AU/h Reload: 20 Duration: 80 Inaccuracy: 1° Guid: u/g Ammo: limited Mass: 5 tons Dam: 4.5/10.5 Impact: - Proximity: - Blast: - Cost: 80,000 cr
Throws out a proximity guided shell that explodes near a target rocket, bomb, missile, or torpedo. Uses clips of 1,000, 10 clips is standard load. Modification of mass driver. Research time: One day. Upgrade all Rebel ships (larger than gunship) with 6 Bofors and 60,000 rounds: two days. Upgrade of Cossacks with two Bofors and 20,000 rounds: Two days.
------------------ Ave Cadet, Imperatur Civitum Americae Unitas! (url="http://"http://www.catholic-cadet.com")Catholic Cadet: Apologetics and Evangelization(/url)
(This message has been edited by spl_cadet (edited 08-22-2004).)
Quote
Originally posted by spl_cadet: **New research: Bofors cannon
Throws out a proximity guided shell that explodes near a target fighter, missile, or torpedo. Uses clips of 1,000, 10 clips is standard load. Modification of mass driver. Research time: One day. Upgrade all Rebel ships (larger than gunship) with 6 Bofors and 60,000 rounds: two days. Upgrade of Cossacks with two Bofors and 20,000 rounds: Two days.
**
This weapon is approved, but it may not be used against ships. Only ordinance, including Missiles, Torpedos, and Heavy Rockets. Javelins are immune(too fast).
EDIT: I just noticed a mistake of mine. I have to revoke the useage of more than one of those (at this stage at least). To have several would render any and all ordinance useless, which is hardly fair or balanced at least at this time(and as a mod, to maintain balance and fairness is my job). As a modification of the Mass Driver, it'd be 20 tons at the least anyway, keeping it too heavy for fighters and most gunships. Plus: if the Rebellion could have done it so easily(addressing research time), then they would have done so alot sooner. The Mass Driver is an old, old, old technology(it's a big gatling gun).
To summarise, I am disallowing the useage of more than one of these, at least for now. I am disallowing the useage of these on craft of gunship size and smaller. That includes Cossack Raiders. I am raising research time to 5 days for effectiveness value. Even one of these will block 10-15% of incomming projectiles i assume.
------------------ Insanity has its advantages "I- I Swear Officer.. The Dwarf was on fire when I got here!"
Originally posted by U.E. Admiral: Even one of these will block 10-15% of incomming projectiles i assume.
Theoretically speaking, one gun should be enough to protect the ship against almost all guided munitions (provided they aren't timed to impact very closely together). The US navy's Aegis / Phalanx system is a good example of just how potent these things are.
Of course, tracking numerous projectiles in three dimensions, and deriving a firing solution very rapidly is extremely difficult. Thus, Cadet's cannon is probably vulnerable to counter measures (or a saturation attack).
------------------ "I know of no more encouraging fact than the unquestioned ability of a man to elevate his life by conscious endeavor." - Henry David Thoreau
(This message has been edited by General Rak (edited 08-22-2004).)
As a modification of the Mass Driver, it'd be 20 tons at the least anyway, keeping it too heavy for fighters and most gunships.
We got the modifications done by New Japan.
Plus: if the Rebellion could have done it so easily(addressing research time), then they would have done so alot sooner. The Mass Driver is an old, old, old technology(it's a big gatling gun).
If it weren't for the game mechanics being unable to handle it. As it is, the technology used here is older than even the Mass Driver, Bofors were originally developed during the 1930s.
I am raising research time to 5 days for effectiveness value. Even one of these will block 10-15% of incomming projectiles i assume.
The technology is over 300 years old, I think that it wouldn't take that long to research (even for effectiveness's sake, just let the Confeds devise a countermeasure later on).
New Research: Thor phased array quantum radar system: Allows for precise determination of location, speed, and heading of objects larger than .5m within one light-hour. One day. Javelin anti-missile system: Turreted Javelin launcher launches Javelin with homing capability on incoming ordinance. Two days for research, three days to upgrade fleet.
Forgot to mention: Wide-spectrum jammer: Missile jammer with three times the power. Two days to research and equip fleets.
Isnt New Japan a Confederation Planetoid?
The Bofors arent older than the original gatling gun(made in 1800s i think) i dont think. Either way though, Admiral's point there is made. 250 years is plenty of time to come up with such a thing. Also, if the thing had been developed they wouldnt put missiles and other such things in EV unless they'd already found a way to counter it. And if that's been countered, no point in using it.
Heh, I honestly cant think of a way to counter it effectively. Then again, i'm not too smart. And as Admiral said, in such numbers, there's no way a projectile could get through, which would kill most of the point of projectiles.
Dont those 2 put you at 4 Research projects?
Palamino Corvette: 3 Days Left - Started 21st Bofor: 5 Days Left - Started Today after noon High-Tech Radar: 1 Day - Started Today after noon Javelin Anti-Missile System: 2 Days - Started Today after noon
Upgrading the fleet to use the Jevalin turret, the time is fine i think, but due to no turret slots on fighters, it again limits it to use on larger vessels, right?
If i am right, then you are dropping the Bofor in favour of the Javelin system, Yes?
Keep it up. I'm on the edge of my comfy chair just reading this. (-: Oh, and sorry if i sound like i'm moderating. I dont mean to bother.
Originally posted by StoryReader: Isnt New Japan a Confederation Planetoid?
That was a particularly funny joke (read up on Japanese economic history during the 1970s and 1980s).
Originally posted by StoryReader: Also, if the thing had been developed they wouldnt put missiles and other such things in EV unless they'd already found a way to counter it. And if that's been countered, no point in using it.
Currently, numerous platforms exist that can provide point defense (and long range defense) against missiles. The navy's (url="http://"http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/weapons/wep-phal.html")Phalanx system(/url) is one example. The (url="http://"http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/missiles/wep-stnd.html")Standard(/url) and (url="http://"http://www.army-technology.com/projects/arrow2/index.html")Arrow(/url) missiles are others. All are extremely effective at shooting down other missiles. The Standard and Arrow, however, are (generally speaking, and I don't want to debate this) only viable against targets with a known, fixed flight path (otherwise, a precise intercept course cannot be calculated). The Phalanx is more applicable here. It throws up a literal wall of steel in the direction of the missile, usually striking the target at least somewhere. The system has proved effective against limited ( a few missiles) attacks, and uncoordinated attacks. However, it does have weaknesses. First, missiles have been developed that fly so close to the sea they're called sea skimming missiles. Acquiring and attacking these missiles is particularly difficult, although it is theoretically possible. Second, the systems are vulnerable to a saturation attack (many missiles hitting the ship at once). The Russians perfected this tactic by planning to fire dozens of missiles into the fleet at the same time. Finally, the system isn't 100% effective. A few missiles can sometimes get through. The navy still mounts the system on ships (four on many carriers), and continues to develop more advanced (though imperfect) systems (such as electromagnetic and electrically fired platforms).
The point is, simply because there are vulnerabilities in a system does not preclude its deployment. Point defense missile systems are imperfect. They are vulnerable to saturation attacks, and other (more innovative) countermeasures. But for limited and uncoordinated attacks, they are invaluable. Plus, when a saturation attack does occur, they often reduce the damage done to the fleet significantly.
My one critique of the system, which I noted to Cadet online yesterday, is the way in which it works. Projectiles are fired so rapidly that it's nearly impossible to create a wall of steel (as this system seems designed to do). Instead, the system will be trying to hit a maneuverable bullet with a bullet, a nearly impossible task that only the greatest sensory-computation package ever conceived could hope to accomplish. In any other circumstance, this would be impossible. So, when Cadet said he was researching the Thor array, you must understand that he is creating the ultimate sensor-computational package. The sheer resolution and computational power in the array would be enough to (if slaved) make every single guided munition 100% accurate to the centimeter. He could create precise torpedo and missile formations aimed at exactly exploited the vulnerabilities of your fleet posture. A more conventional, "wall of steel" system, with a slower firing rate and higher inaccuracy, would not entail these problems, and would be technically possible (albeit somewhat less effective).
Oh, and Spl: This system is definitely not based on the original Bofors. It's an entirely new concept and definitely a implementation.
The Javelin anti-missile system would probably only be viable against heavy rockets, space bombs, and other unguided munitions.
The wide-spectrum jammer could also be defeated, but it would take one research slot.
U.E. Admiral: Although Cadet seriously overpowered the ODP concept, it is a viable design. It just needs to be built in a more realistic, modular way, and it does have vulnerabilities (when I originally designed it for "EV Webstory" I thought of several good ones).
(This message has been edited by General Rak (edited 08-23-2004).)
Research Proposals: 1: You all know and love the afterburner, right? A direct fuel flow that converts to a boost of speed. I plan to apply the same principle to shields. Obviously my concept is much more difficult, but as Pirates we already have the benefit of shield boosting technology so Id assume it would be possible.
The benefits of this design would be mainly held by a defensive fleet, that hasnt wasted all its fuel arriving at its destination. I believe that four jumps would be able to regenerate the shields as much as 40u at approximately three times the vessels normal recharge rate. Due to the obvious potential power of this defensive upgrade, Im going to put a five day research rate on it as well as a two day period of installation for all my vessels. Additionally I could impose a heavy cost on the installation depending on the moderators opinion.
2: Second is an upgrade of the Javelin launcher and rocket. Get rid of the rocket aspect and keep the same explosive charge. The launcher would be much more massive and could only be fitted on a specialized ship (read proposal #3). It would be slightly slower in reload time but would fire forty missiles simultaneously. Essentially this would be anti-warship and useless against fighters. The cost of the launcher will increase and the cost of the rocket will drop substantially. No self-destruct device will be fitted on the capsules.
Launcher: This internal weapons pod holds Javelin capsules and fires them through the exit ports on its front surface.
Mass: 30 tons Cost: 200,000 cr Type: Sec
Capsule: Speed: 780 AU/h Reload: 30 Duration: Potentially infinite. Inaccuracy: 1° Guid: u/g Mass: - Qtty: 25,000 (max) Dam: 17/11.75 Impact: 20 Proximity: 12m Blast: 12m Cost: 5 cr Type: Sec Research time: 5 RTDs
3: I also need a carrier to hold my new fighter. It would hold eight fighters and would have no traditional cannons or turrets. The ship will leave the launch sites open after releasing the fighters and expose my new rocket launchers. However, as it has no turrets it would be a sitting duck to fighters. The new carrier is based loosely on the traditional Argosy.
Speed: 300 AU/h Accel: 280 Turn: 90°/sec Shields: 160u Charge: 0.6u/sec (1.8u/sec with upgrade) Armor: 20u Guns: 0 (max) Turrets: 0 (max) Space: 0 tons Cargo: 20 tons Fuel: 1200u (12) Length: 52m Mass: 300 tons Crew: 85 Weaponry: 8 (whatever name I come up with for the preceding technology) Carries: 8 Cold Lightning fighters Cost: 3,500,000 cr (including fighters) Research time: 7RTDs
Endnote: I think three is probably too many and I feel that all three proposals are too powerful, but Im going to submit all this as is and ask for corrections and recommendations anyway. Feel free to shoot down any way you please, I would.
------------------ I move along the path alone, without a friend, without a home. Yet though this tortured path I roam, knowing that my mind doth foam; in madness shall I ever seek, an answer for the poor and meek.
Originally posted by General Rak: Currently, numerous platforms exist that can provide point defense (and long range defense) against missiles. The navy's Phalanx system is one example. The Standard and Arrow missiles are others. All are extremely effective at shooting down other missiles. The Standard and Arrow, however, are (generally speaking, and I don't want to debate this) only viable against targets with a known, fixed flight path (otherwise, a precise intercept course cannot be calculated). The Phalanx is more applicable here. It throws up a literal wall of steel in the direction of the missile, usually striking the target at least somewhere. The system has proved effective against limited ( a few missiles) attacks, and uncoordinated attacks. However, it does have weaknesses. First, missiles have been developed that fly so close to the sea they're called sea skimming missiles. Acquiring and attacking these missiles is particularly difficult, although it is theoretically possible. Second, the systems are vulnerable to a saturation attack (many missiles hitting the ship at once). The Russians perfected this tactic by planning to fire dozens of missiles into the fleet at the same time. Finally, the system isn't 100% effective. A few missiles can sometimes get through. The navy still mounts the system on ships (four on many carriers), and continues to develop more advanced (though imperfect) systems (such as electromagnetic and electrically fired platforms).
I am aware of the Phalanx and anti-missile missile systems. The way Cadet designed his bofor made it so effective that almost nothing could get through. Sea-skimming missile types are not really doable in space. All the ship need do is spin a little to get the PDS pointed in the right direction. Saturation attacks would be effective, but ammo is rather limited to the point that it'd always come down to who had the better PDS and better turrets.
Originally posted by U.E. Admiral: Sea-skimming missile types are not really doable in space. All the ship need do is spin a little to get the PDS pointed in the right direction.
The equivalent missile is a cloaked cruise missile (or heavy torpedo), which could be researched. The only constraint would be that the payload would be limited. That would bypass Cadet's system, but would not be powerful enough (on its own) to tear up a fleet.
Originally posted by U.E. Admiral: Saturation attacks would be effective, but ammo is rather limited to the point that it'd always come down to who had the better PDS and better turrets.
If a government researched either a carrier (which can launch fighters with enough weaponry to saturate the Bofors) or a heavily armed guided missile cruiser, sustained saturation attacks would be viable.
I've been gone for a couple of days guys sorry. Couldn't be helped. Anyway, by looking at those weapons you guys are developing i'd say your creating some sort of mass battle station. Like that rotates around your planet...is that allowed? I assume so but it would be a huge benefit to whoever had it.
Cheezy_Cracker I accept your proposal and sorry I'm late on it. I'll post the item today.
------------------ (url="http://"http://speculation_plug.home.insightbb.com")The Speculation Plug is here!!(/url)
As far as the Bofor is concerned, I don't believe something would be able to down so many missles at the point the game is at now. Some fleets are capable of shooting 100 at once. Also, the technology involved seems so advanced to the point where it could potentially cost money to be implemented on such a grand scale as a Rebel Warship. Let alone all the Rebel ships.
------------------ <Insert Clever Saying Here> (url="http://"http://www.Livejournal.com/users/schlichtinator")I'm awesome(/url)|(url="http://"http://www.penny-arcade.com") Penny Arcade! (/url) Let us run through the flowers of red and gold, and dance naked under a building of bricks!
Originally posted by Jimbob: As far as the Bofor is concerned, I don't believe something would be able to down so many missles at the point the game is at now. Some fleets are capable of shooting 100 at once. Also, the technology involved seems so advanced to the point where it could potentially cost money to be implemented on such a grand scale as a Rebel Warship. Let alone all the Rebel ships.
It's a freaking 40mm cannon slaved to the radar system. It's a technology as old as radar itself.
Also, the Catapult fighter is just a mite bit powerful for the price that it is set at, especially with the speed and manueverability that it has.
Modified the stats of the Bofors: Speed: 350 AU/h Reload: 10 Duration: 80 Inaccuracy: 1° Guid: u/g Ammo: limited Mass: 5 tons Dam: 4.5/10.5 Impact: - Proximity: - Blast: - Cost: 80,000 cr
Originally posted by spl_cadet: Modified the stats of the Bofors: Speed: 350 AU/h Reload: 10 Duration: 80 Inaccuracy: 1° Guid: u/g Ammo: limited Mass: 5 tons Dam: 4.5/10.5 Impact: - Proximity: - Blast: - Cost: 80,000 cr
I know I didn't mention it when I was talking to you a second ago, but you should also up the inaccuracy to 5 degrees. Even more realistic, and reasonable.
Will the Bofor Cannon be able to attack fighters as well? Or will it only be for defense against incoming missiles/torpedoes/etc.
To me, the concept is good, but I do believe that it should not be implemented on fighters merely because most fighters couldn't realistically hold the radar and software needed to slave the actuall cannon to. There is my two cents, take it where you want!
Cheezy_Cracker
------------------ "You don't want to sell me deathsticks" "I...uh..I don't want to sell you deathsticks!" "You want to go home and rethink your life." "I..uh..want to go home and rethink my life!"
Originally posted by Cheezy_Cracker: Will the Bofor Cannon be able to attack fighters as well? Or will it only be for defense against incoming missiles/torpedoes/etc.
If the Catapult isn't voided, I'm going to have to insist on it's being able to target fighers (and multiple systems per ship).
It isn't on fighters, only a couple on gunboats, they're mainly on ships.
And Rak's advice for accuracy is taken.
All right... I think I'm up to date on what has happened so far (at least, I'd better be after reading through 4 pages...). But I still have a few questions- has spl_cadet taken control of my fleet during my absense? And if so, how much of my fleet is still left?
------------------ Three Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, seven for the dwarf-lords in their halls of stone, nine for Mortal Men doomed to die, One Ring for the Dark Lord on his dark throne in the land of Mordor where the Shadows lie. J.R.R. Tolkien
If you feel that about it, Cadet, I'll edit the thing.
Catapult Fighter Cargo: 1 Shield: 25 Armor: 10 Regen: 15 Accel: 575 Speed: 375 Turn: 4 Fuel: 300 Space: 5 Weapons: 4 Neutron Cannons 2 Loyalty Missile Racks + 6 ammo 1 Rocket Launcher + 4 ammo
Cost: Edit: U.E. said that he believed that 1.5M was too much, so this is an edit using his standards....1,200,000 Time: 3 Days
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(This message has been edited by Consul Bob (edited 08-24-2004).)