Engine features

What features not present in coldstone - at least without elaborate work-around hacks - would you like a RPG engine to have?

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#include <stdio.h>
main(void){char a(22) = {0x4a,0x75,0x73,0x74,' ',0x61,0x6e,0x6f,0x74,0x68,0x65,0x72,' ',0x43,' ',0x68,0x61,0x63,0x6b};int b;for (b = 0;b < 23;printf("%c",a(b)),b++){};printf("...n");}
/* Not just for perl. */

uhmmm being able to make several styles of play like side scrolling like mario brothers, forward scrolling like diemos rising, and of course the overhead view like coldstone already has. i think those two views (side and scroll forward) have yet to have been taken where they could be rpg'ish wise with many choices paths etc. symphony of the night was good stuff and one of my fav games.

multi. i really dont care either way since im more of a coop or single player person but you could take your end game and modify it some and expand gameplay value via multi. not to mention, well i think thats a bit out of hand, but if the engine could somehow support a cool old school 2d type mmporg like the older ultima's or ragnarok which has 2d characters i think some people could make snazzy mmporgs on the mac. even things like where you could make your own escape velocity or armada would be cool. maybe some side scrollers multi like the older capcom arcade games.

npc's that go run around with you and fight or even go free for all in a fight. it would be cool to have two sides going at it like computer players in starcraft and you could be a third party etc attacking on the side.

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Morvera ner Morden

Somethings that i would like to see in Coldstone (or a future rpgmaker) are:

  1. The option of creating a turned based, or real time game right from the begining. When start a new project it would ask you if you would like it to be real time or turn based.

  2. Allies. Where you can comand allies to attack you enemies either through turn-based commands, or a real-time interface of some sort (simular to wingman comands from flight sims)

  3. The ability to create side scrollers (This could be an add on)

  4. An adaptive audio system. If you are walking closer to a waterfall the waterfall sound gets louder and as you move away it gets quieter. (I have several ideas on how to do this within the current coldstone interface, but it is difficult)

  5. An internal timer(s) This could be used to control events such as weather, and events. The one developed on the board here is also very good, but should be put in on a larger scale.

  6. 32 bit colour

  7. Multiple font sizes to choose from.

That is all I can think of now. I do enjoy using Coldstone, but I think the next version could be improved slightly.

Pedrith ๐Ÿ™‚

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conditionals with up to 10 cases.

for/until/while-wend loops for constantly executing loops and events.

wait action that optionally suspends the execution of the event.

truly configurable keydowns, "un hardwire" the keys and make the actions editable.
(this would allow side scrollers and just about any type of motion)

the use of actual scrolling text boxes for dialogs, versus the current draw routine.

clickable stamps in maps.

equal speed when using compressed(png) formats as raw (pict) formats.

stronger faster engine.

( added )

stationary animations

NPCs with multiple targets/magnets/objectives...similar to task list

complete/polished debugging.

more informative help global/window.

better documentation for creating curative objects(negative damage), objects in general.

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... That staples it.

(This message has been edited by ellrx (edited 04-06-2003).)

I kinda agree with Pedrith: the possibility to choose ff-style battles or diablo's real-time battle mode, fonts, and a possibility to mix classic RPG style along with Castlevania; SYmphony of the night style...
And something REALLY important that Coldstone is DAMN missing: the possibilty to control NPCS AND player's actions sometimes... if you want to make a good story in an RPG, there are times when the player lose control and just watch the player moving and talking to pre-programmed NPCs... it's doable with Coldstone but it's really tricky and annoying...

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God is real... unless declared integer...
Watashi wa Iori Yagami no gakuse-desu
My RPG's homepage: (url="http://"http://darkrising.free.fr/")http://darkrising.free.fr/(/url)

By the way, what's this question for? you planning on making an RPG engine like Coldstone for users to create RPGs?

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God is real... unless declared integer...
Watashi wa Iori Yagami no gakuse-desu
My RPG's homepage: (url="http://"http://darkrising.free.fr/")http://darkrising.free.fr/(/url)

Not likely, this is just a wishlist thread, it'll drag on and on till everyone gets ot out of their system...
eventually some one will suggest another game dev system, or someone will opporunely drop in and advertise their game dev product...and a possible flame war leading to the astrangement of said person will occur...

It happens all the time, like the phases of the moon...

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... That staples it.

Quote

Originally posted by KamaShin:
**you planning on making an RPG engine like Coldstone for users to create RPGs?

**

Yes. 'Users', but not 'Lusers', though. Anyone good enough to make a coldstone game - or anyone who is making one but ran out of time - should be ok.
And it would be moraly wrong to post a topic just to stir up disconentment among someone's user base... ๐Ÿ˜„
This won't be soon though, think two years for the engine and perhaps another for the first in-house game. Then I'll put some good users (Ones with at least some experiance, either Coldstone developers or people who are at least aware of what is required to make a game.) behind the editing tools and see if they are easy enough for general dispribution. What will happen from there depends on what the test users think.

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#include <stdio.h>
main(void){char a(22) = {0x4a,0x75,0x73,0x74,' ',0x61,0x6e,0x6f,0x74,0x68,0x65,0x72,' ',0x43,' ',0x68,0x61,0x63,0x6b};int b;for (b = 0;b < 23;printf("%c",a(b)),b++){};printf("...n");}
/* Not just for perl. */

Oh, and the game will be real time until combat. It will be at the developer's option as too how the party characters other than that of the player will behave. (Do they use AI, or is each controlled by the player in sequence?)

There will be a flexible sides-and-alliances system, about as good as the one in EVN, but it will be able to alter those alliances dynamically via the scripting language. (Which will, if my dream comes to total fruition, have at least a reasonable graphical front end rather like a good wysiwyg HTML editor.)

Side scrolling games will not be supported directly, Lithocast is for RPGs - but given the cleverness with which programmers (Yes, you coldstoners are programmers either ASW says you are or now ๐Ÿ˜‰ ) have adapted Coldstone and even Star Wars: Galactic battlegrounds to turn-based play, I won't be to surprised if someone figures out how to make Lithoclast do a sidescroller... but I am not promising anything.

The only barrier to entry for lithoclast that I can think of is users who click the 'New empty world' template in the editor. They'd certainly not be able (Unless they read and understood the manual, and can not give up when it doesn't start up the very first time after weeks of preliminary work because of a bug), I'll admit, to just drag and drop and start creating a map with no supporting Graphics, AIs, Interaction scripts, Key scripts, map tools, effects, etc.
Whereas Coldstone is more of a template where you fill in the graphics, plot, cast, and places, Lithoclast is a tool that prevents you from having to write an interface, world renderer, and other such things like support for saving the game and data-files, etc. Now, IF the editor is as wonderful as I plan it to be - and it might not be, but probably will - you'll be able to chose a template with all that stuff made for you and ready to be altered as little or as much as you want, up to the point where you just fill and the plot and such...

The ease-of-use key here with lithoclast will be the quality of the editor. Editing Lithoclast worlds without the editor would be like programming your mac in hexadecimal. Or MAYBE assembly language. But if you have to do that, you probably want to make a sidescroller and are looking for a workaround to the fact that the engine is isometric ๐Ÿ˜‰ )

If all goes according to plan, the editor will have all kinds of customizable tools, like, say, a 'trash-can' tool which creates a trash-can objects and stocks it with random, realistic contents that might even renew themselves once in a while. Or a forest-path tool that lays down a path edged with trees that the player can interact with (E.g. by taking an axe to them) and makes the forest at large out of 'dumb' trees that the player can only see but wont interact with reasonably. But of course there is no reason the entire forest could not be made out of 'real' trees if you wanted, Or, if you don't want that much detail, you could make it entirely out of 'dumb' vegetation. Or not have an axe item. Chances are most players won't notice the lack, but may praise the inclusion, of such interactivity.)

One should be able to make an at-least PoG level game with few or no (I don't know for certain now) trips to the 'edit script code' tab. (Also assuming they don't want to edit any of the standard AIs beyond changing some parameters, etc, and that sort of thing. Depending on the quality of the editor (and depending on what his visions of grander mandate), the average developer may not use the code tab at all.)

Once again, any or all of this could change before the first game is released and almost certainly before the engine becomes public.

About the multiple AI target thing - I don't know if the defualt AIs will do this, but there will be nothing to keep you from adding any reasonible AI behavior, but at any rate, Now that I know at least one user wants this, which is why I started the topic in the first place....

------------------
#include <stdio.h>
main(void){char a(22) = {0x4a,0x75,0x73,0x74,' ',0x61,0x6e,0x6f,0x74,0x68,0x65,0x72,' ',0x43,' ',0x68,0x61,0x63,0x6b};int b;for (b = 0;b < 23;printf("%c",a(b)),b++){};printf("...n");}
/* Not just for perl. */

Well, if we're talking pie-in-the-sky ideal wish lists with no grounding in plausible reality, here's a start on mine. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Support for multiple player character parties in action simultaneously - ideally, having the option to move every PC independently would be cool in some particular situations.

  • Multicharacter abilities and attacks, a la "Double Techs".

  • Character movement that hides the underlying movement grid from the player as thoroughly as possible.

  • A really good combat AI. Melee fighters shouldn't just "scream and charge" when one spots the player. Magic users shouldn't cast spells at random - if the target is immune to fire, don't keep casting fireballs; don't cast a big healing spell if the caster and allies are near full health, and so forth. If there's any distinction at all between ranged and melee combat, make sure characters act to take advantage of whicever mode they are better at.

  • If battles are "tactical" rather than abstracted a la the FF games, characters should be able to communicate with each other. If you engage in combat with a sentry NPC, he should be able to shout and bring all the others running.

  • Physics/particle systems. Let me tell a character to jump from here to there and have the game automatically fill in the appropriate parabolic path that his sprite follows. Let me cast a magic missile spell that flies away from my sprite and automatically homes in on whatever sprite (or sprites) I targeted.

  • Arbitrarily defined statistics and game mechanics. I'm talking a game engine that, with a little effort, will allow me to duplicate the mechanics of anything from D&D; to Shadowrun to FF6.

  • Lighting effects. Day and night is a good start; arbitrary light/anti-light sources are better.

  • As Pedrith suggested, localized sound sources.

  • A way to build composite sprites. One example would be Diablo-style character sprites (change one piece of equipment -> change that part of the character sprite) while another would be sprite subanimations (multi-headed hydras, maybe?)

  • Line-of-sight, both for the player and for AIs.

  • Multiple access types (Open ground, water, solid walls, lava, etcetera) and the ability to define which access types any given character/sprite can travel through.

  • Multiple access levels. I want bridges, balconies, towering cliffs, the works.

There's a start. ๐Ÿ™‚ More later, perhaps...

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I don't know what I'm talking about.
Oh no, here comes another learning experience.
Oderint dum metuant?

**
**

I am not into RPG making, but I did pay for my copy of Coldstone:-)

I just want to create landscapes people can walk through and explore everything that is there. So my wishlist might be a litle different from the others.

I would like to have texts floating over the screen like newsflashes, but they are not part of a dialog so you can move on while they are displayed (like when passing a guard and the guard shouts at you, or a message about something happening somewhere else)

Side scrolling is nice (we all agree about that don't we)

The ability to change the appearance of your player in midgame. That is also nice when changing camera views or when doing a sidescroller and your player is teleported farther from you or when your player is under the influence of an evil spell. Unless I really miss something that is not possible (will ask that as a serious question later on).

Fighting systems are not of importance to me. Dialog and other forms of interaction are.

But I would like to see a way to do advanced scripting instead of just using what is handed to me.

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Well, since you were brave or foolish enough to address my wishes, I'll take a moment to attempt to clarify some of them. ๐Ÿ™‚

**
**

You sure got some work to do... Before importing my game in Coldstone, I first made it using RealBasic... which means I created some things mentionned above from crap... and it took me about 2 months to have a working 2D graphic engine with events/triggers, collisions, upper/lower graphics, a 2D battle engine, and another engine for the equippement (welll, status, equippement, spells and items... I mean the screen that allows you to manage your characters and items)... 2 whole months doing only that... and I didn't create any editor... everything was directly programmed in RealBasic... So I know a bit what it takes, or would take, to do what you re planning to do... something like the well-known RPG-Maker our PC-friends have... well... GOOD LUCK you ll need it...
Anyway, I m not sure about this, but you might want to have a look at Torque... maybe you can find shortcuts for your project if you use Torque... Base language is C/C++ so you re free to programm almost anything, but it already manage things such as TCP/IP for multyplayer, Interface, collision, 3D/2D rendering with anti-aliasing and Video-Card taken into account, particles system already implemented and so on... Note that it's first intended for creating 3D games, but I m sure you can make 2D only games with it, and you may be able to create your RPG creation set with it too... and it has, like Coldstone, the great advantage of being able to compile for Mac and PC...

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God is real... unless declared integer...
Watashi wa Iori Yagami no gakuse-desu
My RPG's homepage: (url="http://"http://darkrising.free.fr/")http://darkrising.free.fr/(/url)

Eh, You're actually making a new engine, Bryce ???
Lithoclast...tell us more...i require links and a homepage!

When it gets around to testing i'm likely to be more than willing to take several thousand stabs at it, and letting you sew it back up...

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... That staples it.

( EDIT : Excitement marred my spelling )

(This message has been edited by ellrx (edited 04-07-2003).)

Quote

Originally posted by ellrx:
**Eh, Yuo're actuallt making a new engine, Bryce ???
Lithoclast...tell us more...i require links and a homepage.

**

Yes, however at this point there is no web page becuase much of the specs are written on three ungainly notepads in my cryptic handwriting, and the game mostly exists as some proof-of-concept miniprograms at present which need to be rewritten and woven together...

I just love to talk about Lithoclast, but I really have to get back to finishing the specs and getting them on the computer. I'll post them when I finish, look for it in about a week. (Er, assuming that I don't discover a major issue I haven't given consideration too...)

The game engine has been an idea of mine for a while, perhaps two years now on and off writing specs and then disgarding them when I realized I wanted more flexiblity... then I finaly got in touch with Glenn Andreas, who has been a big help, despensing RPG engine design sage advice that has given me a boost.

The main goal of my engine, though, is to power my dream RPG, entitled 'Reign of Entropy'. (Reign of Entropy actualy has a web page designed partily for it, but I can't seem to log onto my server webspace for some reason, so I can't post it.) I didn't want to call it the game's engine the 'entropy engine' for obvious marketing reasons, and so it got the name Lithoclast. But anyway, I've got to go back to the bit mine for now...

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#include <stdio.h>
main(void){char a(22) = {0x4a,0x75,0x73,0x74,' ',0x61,0x6e,0x6f,0x74,0x68,0x65,0x72,' ',0x43,' ',0x68,0x61,0x63,0x6b};int b;for (b = 0;b < 23;printf("%c",a(b)),b++){};printf("...n");}
/* Not just for perl. */

Multiple character is a definite YES, along with side and upward scroling, Those would be excellent. then there are the things that will never happen (not a chance) of networkable play, multiplayer, or user config keyboard.

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Whose cruel idea was it to put an 'S' in lisp?

I disagree on the keyboard...its really not that hard, the BASIC language has had support fro this on nearly every platform since its inception in the 80's

its no different than storing any other variable during play

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... That staples it.

I just finished the basic layout for the Graphics, Sound, Map and Character system specs. Oh, just to make sure everyone is clear on this - Lithoclast is two years off. So don't drop your games here and chase after it, you'd be in for quite a wait...

However, I am happy that there is such a positive response to it, and you've given me a lot of encouragement to finish it. Now is the time to get in your two cents though about features, so keep the advice coming... I'll consider any reasonible sugjestion.

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#include <stdio.h>
main(void){char a(22) = {0x4a,0x75,0x73,0x74,' ',0x61,0x6e,0x6f,0x74,0x68,0x65,0x72,' ',0x43,' ',0x68,0x61,0x63,0x6b};int b;for (b = 0;b < 23;printf("%c",a(b)),b++){};printf("...n");}
/* Not just for perl. */

Networkable.... one world, many players...

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