How *exactly* is damage applied?

Forgive me if this has been covered already...

Here is an example scenario with a weapon vs. target.

Big Gun
Mass Damage: 100
Energy Damage: 80

Target A
Shields: 90
Armor: 70

What I think I'm seeing is this:
Even though normaly, the weapon wouldn't do more than 100 damage, (if it didn't penetrate the shileds) in this case, the weapon will kill the target in one shot.

I think I'm seeing that if a shot penetrates the shields, it will deal out its mass damage in addition to whatever energy damage was dealt.

Here's another example:
Target B
Shields: 50
Armor: 90

After one shot, the traget will have 10 armor left.
Is this correct?
Or does the 50 carry over into the armor, and the mass damage not get dealt? Or does a percentage of mass damage get dealt that's equal to the percentage of extra energy damage? Or would the target be destroyed?

Can anyone clarify exactly what happens?

I ask because I'm working on a plug that has weapons relatively deadly compared to defensive techs. But I think I'm seeing some one shot kills that weren't supposed to happen when looking at the weapon, shield, and armor stats.

You could test it... really... just make a system with a 100% appearance chance of a ship with very precise statistics and have your pilot equipped with the weapons you want to test.

However, in my experience damage is applied this way:
Target has shields: if weapon deals energy damage, damage applies. If it does not, then no matter how high the mass damage could be, nothing happens besides impact. If the energy damage is greater or equal to the ship's shields, then the mass damage applies.

Note: If a weapon is flagged to go through shields, then it will deal its mass damage no matter. But it will never deal shield damages though.

Target does NOT have shields: energy damage does not matter in the slightest here. Mass damage is applied. so is impact.

Note on blast radius: no matter where you are you always take full damage wether or not you are hit directly. Impact also applies wherever you are in the blast radius. Also, ionisation only happens to the ship that triggered the proximity radius, I believe.

Examples:

Weapon A: Energy Dmg: 10; Mass Dmg: 10
Weapon B Energy Dmg: 0; Mass Dmg: 10
Weapon Energy Dmg: 10; Mass Dmg: 0

Ship X: Shields: 10; Armor: 10
Ship Y: Shields 15; Armor: 5
Ship Z: Shields 0; Armor: 20

Weapon A hits X = X is destroyed; B hits X = X takes no damage
A hits Y = Y is now at 5 shields; B hits Y = Y takes no damage
A hits Z = Z is now at 5 armor; B hits Z = Z takes 10 mass damage

C hits X = X loses all its shields
C hits Y = Y is now at 5 shields
C hits Z = Z is unarmed

Hope that helped

@mumbling-psycho, on Apr 5 2006, 03:08 PM, said in How exactly is damage applied?:

A hits Z = Z is now at 5 armor;

Wouldn't Z be at 10 armor? Is this a typo or did I miss something?

But that reminds me...

I just now seem to recall damage to shields being equal to (Energy Damage + .5 x Mass Damage) and damage to armor being (Mass Damage + .5 x Energy Damage) in EVC or EVO. Or something like that.

I take it that this is not true in EVN?

@desprez, on Apr 5 2006, 10:24 AM, said in How exactly is damage applied?:

I just now seem to recall damage to shields being equal to (Energy Damage + .5 x Mass Damage) and damage to armor being (Mass Damage + .5 x Energy Damage) in EVC or EVO. Or something like that.

I take it that this is not true in EVN?

I rather assume not, given outfits like the nuke missile which does precisely no mass damage and gobtons of energy damage. The old formula was rather limiting as you couldn't make a weapon that does damage only to one type of protection.

if I remeber well, indeed energy damage is applied to shields, and if there are no shields remaining after that (whether there was any left or there is any at all to begin with), apply the mass damage on armor. Nova does not attempt to to apply part of the energy damage that's "left" from removing the shields, nor does it try to apply only part of the mass damage in the ratio of the "unused" energy damage.

As for EVC and EVO, they did indeed such calculations, but it was 0.25 (1/4) times the other damage, on top of the "corresponding" damage. All necessary info can be found in the respective Bibles. But this absurdity (it's best to let the plug-in developer have the freedom) has indeed been removed in Nova.

Hmm...actually, that change in damage calculations makes a subtle change in the EVC/EVO conversions to the EVN engines. For the most part you can get the right values by simply augmenting the old damage ratings (e.g. a 10/10 weapon in EVC actually did 12.5/12.5 damage), but the carryover when your shields drop won't get properly calculated, I think.

Here's what I hear you saying: First, if a weapon doesn't bypass shields, energy damage is subtracted from shields. Next, if shields are gone at this point, or if the weapon bypasses shields, mass damage is subtracted from armor.

I have a question to ask: Can shields be negative for purposes of recharge?

Example: a ship with 5 shields and 5 armor, with 1000 shield and armor recharge (one point per frame) is hit by a weapon that deals 10 energy damage and 3 mass damage. It obviously takes three frames for the armor to fully recover. How many frames does it take for the shields to fully recover, 5 or 10 (ie. was the ship at 0 or at -5 shields after the hit)?

Also, is there a short delay between when you take damage and when your shields/armor start to recover, or am I just imagining things?

@qaanol, on Apr 5 2006, 12:16 PM, said in How exactly is damage applied?:

Here's what I hear you saying: First, if a weapon doesn't bypass shields, energy damage is subtracted from shields. Next, if shields are gone at this point, or if the weapon bypasses shields, mass damage is subtracted from armor.

I have a question to ask: Can shields be negative for purposes of recharge?

Example: a ship with 5 shields and 5 armor, with 1000 shield and armor recharge (one point per frame) is hit by a weapon that deals 10 energy damage and 3 mass damage. It obviously takes three frames for the armor to fully recover. How many frames does it take for the shields to fully recover, 5 or 10 (ie. was the ship at 0 or at -5 shields after the hit)?

Also, is there a short delay between when you take damage and when your shields/armor start to recover, or am I just imagining things?

Ah, remember making a topic about this once. Don't remember exactly but I think someone worked out shields could drop to -20% or something like that.

Maybe we could get a Norris Software member to clear this up for us.

Quote

Wouldn't Z be at 10 armor? Is this a typo or did I miss something?

You're right, typo. It is indeed 10.

Quote

I have a question to ask: Can shields be negative for purposes of recharge?

No you're not imagining anything, there is indeed a delay, and I'm thinking you could be right about it, maybe shields go into the negatives. However, I also felt that it seemed to take a couple (several) frames before the regeneration kicks in as Qaanol said. I'd have to test that because I rarely play with armor regeneration... somehow I think I remember seeing it work right away, while shields would take a few seconds before they started regenerating.

Found it. Qaanol, you even posted in it yourself.

@guy, on Apr 5 2006, 02:56 PM, said in How exactly is damage applied?:

Ah, remember making a topic about this once. Don't remember exactly but I think someone worked out shields could drop to -20% or something like that.

The numbers were by me (shields go down to about -10%), and the thread is here.
Now, Qaanol, I'm ashamed of you. I know you read that thread, as you made the last post in it. How could you forget it so soon?

As for damage, I can also confirm that if a weapon eliminates a ship's shields, it also applies its full mass damage (but nothing from the shield damage). This is normal behaviour, and I've used it to good effect a couple of times.

(EDIT) Rats! You must've posted while I was typing, Guy.

Edwards

This post has been edited by Edwards : 06 April 2006 - 01:41 AM