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As a plugin maker, i would like to be able to release my plugins in a format usable by the majority of the EVN community. Note my post about zipped bins for plugin distribution. However, there is a problem: I cannot turn my .rez files into anythign. My mac runs OS 8.6 (supposadly, there is a good reason it wont run 9). David Arthur's .rez->mac plugin converter supposadly runs only on 9 and better (WHY? Is it that hard to make something that is backwards compatable?). Ideally, I would like a version that will convert from .rez to mac plugin format and will run on something as early as MacOS 7.6 on a non-ppc processor (that is, an emulated mac) or one that will convert a .rez into a macbinary (.bin) encoded mac plugin and will run on a pc. I do not want a situation in which mac EVN users are forced to go through the same sort of s*** that us PC users have had to in order ot use plugs. -Az
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First of all its not David Arthur who wrote a .rez ---> mac convertor. But rather its a functionality of (url="http://"http://ariossoftware.com/products/evone/")EVONE(/url). There is no such functionality in MissionComputer unless I'm terribly mistaken. Second EVONE is written using Carbon so it is compatible with the current operating system of Apple and backward compatible with everything that can run CarbonLib , that means everything from 8.6. It is more important to support the current operating system Mac OSX , than to write it in classic code and making it horrible for OSX users to use since they then have to emulate OS9 , just like if you run resedit. And its certainly not doable to make it for non-ppc users. Its not that easy , its not just a button you can press "Compile For" when creating an application. Sadly for owners of older mac's more and more people are starting to use Mac OSX these days. And those who don't, they have at least upgraded to OS 8.6 or higher. Now we do understand that EVONE doesn't as smooth on older systems.
We are however working on a standalone .rez to mac convertor that will run fine too on older systems (because it won't consume too much resources). But I'm guessing you will still need 8.6 and CarbonLib. When it will be done will depend on free time , but I'm hoping it won't be too long before Jeffery can finish this.
More info as it develops.
Entarus,
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Quote
Originally posted by Azratax2: WHY? Is it that hard to make something that is backwards compatable?
Yes.
Dave @ ATMOS
Um, unless I'm insane, which is a possibility, the converter already available fits the bill. Right from (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evn&category;=utilities&display;=date&file;=MacPluginConvertor.sit")here(/url), and it was writted by David Arthur. I used it last night in my emulator running 8.1 to convert a plug I created in EVNEW so that I could use NovaTools to edit where the gun placements are (one of the few features EVNEW lacks). Just use the OS 9 program from the file, it is explained in the included readme that it is viable on all systems OS 9 and before.
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Originally posted by Azratax2: David Arthur's .rez- >mac plugin converter supposadly runs only on 9 and better (WHY? Is it that hard to make something that is backwards compatable?).
'Mac OS 9' is shorthand for 'everything prior to Mac OS X'. Though I haven't tested it on anything earlier than Mac OS 9, I can't think of any reason why the 9 version shouldn't work on 8, or likely even 7, and I believe I did put in a 68K binary. Give it a try, and if it doesn't work I'll see what I can do to fix it.
Originally posted by Entarus: First of all its not David Arthur who wrote a .rez --- > mac convertor...There is no such functionality in MissionComputer unless I'm terribly mistaken.
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evn&category;=utilities&display;=date&file;=MacPluginConvertor.sit")Yes I did(/url). It's not part of MissionComputer (although I may incorporate it into MissionComputer in future) because the main purpose was to make it easy for end-users to convert Windows plug-ins, rather than as a service to plug-in developers.
------------------ David Arthur | (url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url) The people united can never be ignited!
I am working on a drag and drop FREEWARE converter that will do both Mac->Windows and Windows->Mac. A fully functional version should be out soon (but I don't dare give dates). Since there is no official code to do the conversions, I can't promise it will work on every plug right off the bat, but any and all problems will of course be fixed as they are reported.
It will be a Carbon app that should work on OS 8.6 and later. Since it is nowhere near as complex as EVONE, it may even work on 8.1.
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com")Arios SoftWare(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/products/evone/")EVONE 1.0pb2 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)
Something freeware from you Arios? You always struck me as a die hard capitalist...
I was under the impression that it was already possible to convert formats both ways, and from what David says it should be here soon, or Arios's converter will do the job. Don't worry overly much, and if it doesn't work (and the file's not too big) you can email it to someone with a more recent OS and they can convert it for you, right?
Or people who download it can do it themselves...
~A~
------------------ "How can I make it go faster?" -Me-
Originally posted by pipeline: **Originally posted by Azratax2: WHY? Is it that hard to make something that is backwards compatable?
Dave @ ATMOS**
Hmmm. I guess I am more familiar with PC programming, where if you make the program fairly simple, it will run on almost anything since win95. Am I just ignorant, or do there seem to be more problems with backward/forward compatability on macs?
On Carbonlib: What is carbonlib? How do I know if i have it? If I do not have it, how do i get it?
On the plugin converter: Excellent. I had assumed that OS 9 meant that OS 9 was a minimum requirement. Thanks for correcting me on this - having an app that can do this will make life so much easier. -Az
Originally posted by Azratax2: < snip>
Did you get my email? I'm all set now.
Nothing to see here people, move along...
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Originally posted by Azratax2: **On Carbonlib: What is carbonlib? How do I know if i have it? If I do not have it, how do i get it? **
Do you know what FAT files are? They were applications that could be run on both power pc's and on 68k macs, carbon is like that for OSX and classic, carbon.lib is an extension file that allows certail applications (carbonised ones) such as nova to be run on either OSX, or classic.
swears at the XP computer he's using
(This message has been edited by Azdara (edited 11-13-2003).)
Here's the official CarbonLib documentation: (url="http://"http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Carbon/Carbon.html")http://developer.app...bon/Carbon.html(/url)
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C:dos C:dosrun
CarbonLib is an extension. If your computer actually had a working network card, it would tell you to get it in Software Update.
Failing to get CarbonLib, you could always send a Mac user the .rez file and have them convert it and send it back to you, or maybe even release it directly. Not very practical, but it sure as hell will work.
(I'm not suggesting you do this, I'm just telling you you could , should you fail to get CarbonLib, in case it hadn't occured to you (though it probably did).)
Wait...didn't you say your Mac was a G3? G3's, if they are official Apple G3's, support OS X. If you get OS X, CarbonLib won't be an issue. Of course, that means getting a CD for OS X...oh well. It was just an idea.
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Originally posted by Azratax2: ** I do not want a situation in which mac EVN users are forced to go through the same sort of s*** that us PC users have had to in order ot use plugs. **
Seant mumbles hateful things about the .rez format
(This message has been edited by seant (edited 11-14-2003).)
(quote)Originally posted by Azdara: **Something freeware from you Arios? You always struck me as a die hard capitalist...:)
Now, for an app I can throw together in a few nights (2 so far, and it is almost done!), I will definitely make it freeware.
Anyway, back to work... now I just need to add blasted drag/drop support...
/me starts copying more code from EVONE...
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com")Arios SoftWare(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/products/evone/")EVONE 1.0pb2 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url) **
It is annoying having all these conversion issues, isn't it? Why can't platforms just be cross-compatible already?
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Originally posted by mrxak: Did you get my email? I'm all set now.
Scratch that, I'm not all set.
Originally posted by Mazca: **It is annoying having all these conversion issues, isn't it? Why can't platforms just be cross-compatible already?:)
**
Why, may I ask, did Contraband not just use Apple's Rez format?? (You know, the one for storing resources in data forks on a Mac) That sure would of negated these conversion nightmares. Or, all they really have to do is release the file format. With the official format, writing a converter is easy.
Well, look at the name of the company, "Contraband." They're bound to be evil little dudes in black suits, smoking ciggarete's and giggling because they're responsible for annoying so many people... It's obvious.
Or there are compatibility issues beyond our scope.
Or it just didn't occur to them.
Originally posted by Azdara: **Well, look at the name of the company, "Contraband." They're bound to be evil little dudes in black suits, smoking ciggarete's and giggling because they're responsible for annoying so many people... It's obvious.:)
Or maybe they had to buy Apple's resource format, and someone was selling .rez for cheaper, and so they took .rez because Microsoft would pay them just as much money either way, and that way they got more money.
Eh?
Bleh...that post was way too serious...attacks someone with a Nerf ball launcher
Originally posted by orcaloverbri9: **Or maybe they had to buy Apple's resource format, and someone was selling .rez for cheaper, and so they took .rez because Microsoft would pay them just as much money either way, and that way they got more money.
As far as I know, the .rez format used was created by Contraband for Nova. The licensing is a good point though, perhaps Rez was not free to use. Still, they are in no way helping the popularity of the game by keeping the plugin format proprietary. (I hesitate to criticize too much though because it may be in their contract with Ambrosia or something. I was just wondering why )