Nova Scenario Complaints

Alright, this is gonna be my little rant and rave thread, so don't expect it to stop anytime soon. I have a number of complaints about storylines and missionlines, and a few about ships, but, for the sake of conciseness, I'll only list a couple here.

Now, don't get me wrong, Nova is an incredible game. But, the scenario takes litle or no advantage of the engine's capabilities. I think that this kind of a game is very capable of simulating a future reality -- and therefore should. Now, I can't do a plugin myself, as I don't have the time. But I'd love to see plugs come out that include these features.

1: Politics. Why is it that plugs never involve politics? No political assassinations, no chance for the player to become a famous political leader, whose sole vote will change the course of nations, no NOTHING. This is a very bad thing. Politics plays a huge role in real life, and should play a large role in plugs. For example, what if the Fed. President does something that Krane doesn't like? Well, you're her Trusted Lieutenant, as the Evil Overlord Handbook says, so you should be the one to go take care of him. You get to take out his personal ship.

2: Cröns. Use more cröns. You can keep a pilot on a planet for six months, six years, six decades, whatever. Shoot, you could do a full Andromeda scenario, where the ship gets stuck for a few centuries, and is rescued only to find the entire galaxy changed. Have missions where the player gets thrown in prison, has all his money confiscated, and is stuck with a little shuttle again. Like if the assassination attempt on the Fed. President fails. Or have missions that open up new systems, saying that they have just been discovered by exploration teams. The galaxy's a big place, folks, and not even the Polaris know about all of it.

3: Failing Missions. The player is always the messiah, the dude who always wins. In the Fed string, have a random chance that the Rebels win, and vice versa. The player occaisonally needs to be put back in his place: he's not completely the master of his own fate.

4: Northern Systems. There's nothing to see there. They take up space, and lead the player on a wild goose chase into nowhere. Why not have exploration missions where you discover and help to terraform new systems?

5: More ships. The Fed Scout Ship is a fighter, not a Scout Ship. Give us a real scoutship, like a Miranu Courier, or more like this: the thing is practically all engine: top speed of 600, fast jumping, multi-jump, can jump without slowing, probably inertialless, is not affected by deadly spöbs or gravity, ten jumps. Two light cannon/one biorelay laser, thorium/Matter/Antimatter reactor, and a cloak. Forget your shields and armor, they might as well not be there. If somebody's mad at you, your job is to run. Fast. 'Cuz if they catch up, you're gonna have an entry for that Famous Last Words thread.

Feel free to flame me about this, as it's what I'm expecting. Have fun.

Good luck, and God bless,
-- spacecowboy

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Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."

So...you're posting this on the dev board because you want someone to make a plug that "fixes" these things?

I think you should make the plug yourself. 🙂

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I am but one of a brewing storm of lawn ornament revolution
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Quote

Originally posted by LawnGnome:
**So...you're posting this on the dev board because you want someone to make a plug that "fixes" these things?

I think you should make the plug yourself. 🙂

**

Refer to end of second paragraph of my post.

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Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."

Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
< snip>

I disagree with a lot of that, because the Nova scenario does not need most of that. However, other scenarios could. For instance, the TC I'm working on includes several things you mentioned. Random events do occur and shape the universe without the player's input at all. Exploration is a major part of several storylines, and if the player explores certain parts of the universe without being made to, it actually effects the game later on. I'm also trying to push the engine a bit in several places. These are all appropriate for the plug I am making, because of the universe I have put the stories in. ATMOS decided to create a very different world, and they did an excellent job working within it. Anybody can just throw in a bunch of tricks and hope it works together, but real skill comes from using only what you need, and make it work together. If Nova had all the stuff you mentioned, it wouldn't be a very good scenario, and would confuse the player much more than entertain them and draw them in. You strike me as the kind of person that prefers television to books, not because either is any better or worse, but because one uses sound and light to communicate, not just ink on paper. A lot of the engine features are there not because ATMOS wanted or needed them, but because they were interesting, and would provide plug-in makers with more tools to create more things. Just because you have the capability, doesn't mean its always better. It's like black-and-white photography. Not every picture needs every color.

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While I do not think the Nova scinareo needs to have all that, I do think that incorperating all that into a plug would be a great idea... in fact, like mrxak, the plug I am attempting to make, called Ory-Hara (the website is under construction), is going to have pretty much all of what you mentioned above. I think of all the capabilities of the Nova engine as extra features, sorta like those mysteries they put in the game... to encourage plug-in developing.

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Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
**
1: Politics. Why is it that plugs never involve politics? No political assassinations, no chance for the player to become a famous political leader, whose sole vote will change the course of nations, no NOTHING. This is a very bad thing. Politics plays a huge role in real life, and should play a large role in plugs. For example, what if the Fed. President does something that Krane doesn't like? Well, you're her Trusted Lieutenant, as the Evil Overlord Handbook says, so you should be the one to go take care of him. You get to take out his personal ship.
**

It'd be awfully tough to write a plug-in where the famous political leader of some kind of governing body flies around in a ship all the time. Most political work is based on meetings, paperwork, etc. In other words, boring stuff.

Quote

**
2: Cröns. Use more cröns. You can keep a pilot on a planet for six months, six years, six decades, whatever. Shoot, you could do a full Andromeda scenario, where the ship gets stuck for a few centuries, and is rescued only to find the entire galaxy changed. Have missions where the player gets thrown in prison, has all his money confiscated, and is stuck with a little shuttle again. Like if the assassination attempt on the Fed. President fails. Or have missions that open up new systems, saying that they have just been discovered by exploration teams. The galaxy's a big place, folks, and not even the Polaris know about all of it.

**

Well, these are good ideas, but it'd be a tremendous amount of work. To have branching strings from randomly available missions would not only screw up the continuity, but it would probably confuse the player, as well. And as cool as some of the features may seem on paper- I doubt anyone would enjoy losing all of their hard earned money and ship for failing one mission. I'm all for cool, branching stuff, but it's a lot of work, and very difficult to keep track of.

Quote

**
3: Failing Missions. The player is always the messiah, the dude who always wins. In the Fed string, have a random chance that the Rebels win, and vice versa. The player occaisonally needs to be put back in his place: he's not completely the master of his own fate.

**

Plug-ins have had the player fail before. Not to toot my own horn here, but one of the branching points of the Kytaan string in my plug-in F-25 ends in devastating failure. Perhaps EVN doesn't make use of it- but it has been seen before..

Quote

**
4: Northern Systems. There's nothing to see there. They take up space, and lead the player on a wild goose chase into nowhere. Why not have exploration missions where you discover and help to terraform new systems?

**

I agree %100 on this one.

Quote

**
5: More ships. The Fed Scout Ship is a fighter, not a Scout Ship. Give us a real scoutship, like a Miranu Courier, or more like this: the thing is practically all engine: top speed of 600, fast jumping, multi-jump, can jump without slowing, probably inertialless, is not affected by deadly spöbs or gravity, ten jumps. Two light cannon/one biorelay laser, thorium/Matter/Antimatter reactor, and a cloak. Forget your shields and armor, they might as well not be there. If somebody's mad at you, your job is to run. Fast. 'Cuz if they catch up, you're gonna have an entry for that Famous Last Words thread.
**

Unfortunately, you can't please everyone..

Quote

**
Feel free to flame me about this, as it's what I'm expecting. Have fun.

Good luck, and God bless,
-- spacecowboy

**

You make some valid points- perhaps you should start learning how to program plug-ins.. I've found the best way of getting what you want is to do it yourself.

_bomb

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"I want to tell you about a time I almost died...."

Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
4: Northern Systems. There's nothing to see there. They take up space, and lead the player on a wild goose chase into nowhere. Why not have exploration missions where you discover and help to terraform new systems?

😄

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I used to jog but the ice kept falling out of my glass.
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Good weapons are instruments of fear; all creatures hate them. If you rejoice in victory, then you delight in killing. That is why victory must be observed like a funeral. - Tao Te Ching

Quote

Originally posted by Kame:
**:D

**

What was the grin directed at? That youre happy that nothing is there? That you think exploration mission are a good idea?

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions

Quote

Originally posted by Bomb:
**
Not to toot my own horn here, but one of the branching points of the Kytaan string in my plug-in F-25 ends in devastating failure. _bomb

**

Bomb, that is interesting to know. That one of branches leads to a devastating failure. Can you tell me more of this? Does the failure mean you cant conquer all, or that the Kytaan face destruction?

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions

Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
(snip)

1. Political assasination. Yea it exists in the real world, but um, have you noticed this is a game? Even if you have, it is not something you want a game to have. Yes you get to destroy ships, but you might as well be playing Space Invaders ™. The game provides the ability for you to make these changes so that some leader says "Go kill that man and here, use this knife. I'm sending this holocam with you because I want to watch him die."

Yep, you can create that. It's within your power, and it is not all that hard. (make the time if you are not satisfied and do it yourself).

5. That ship you described is a cheat. It's been a while since I played the Fed storyline, but I think at the end you can get a limited cloak. Biorelay laser implies a biological laser. Something the Feds would never come up with.

But a ship with no shields or armor is a bad idea. Those Auroran railguns can shoot a great distance.

And why am I arguing. This should be on the Nova board. You're complaining about the current game. Download the Polycon TC it solves many of your gripes.

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Ivanova: "I can only conclude that I am paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate."

Quote

Originally posted by Vast Deathmaster:
**1. Political assasination. Yea it exists in the real world, but um, have you noticed this is a game? Even if you have, it is not something you want a game to have. Yes you get to destroy ships, but you might as well be playing Space Invaders ™. The game provides the ability for you to make these changes so that some leader says "Go kill that man and here, use this knife. I'm sending this holocam with you because I want to watch him die."

Yep, you can create that. It's within your power, and it is not all that hard. (make the time if you are not satisfied and do it yourself).

5. That ship you described is a cheat. It's been a while since I played the Fed storyline, but I think at the end you can get a limited cloak. Biorelay laser implies a biological laser. Something the Feds would never come up with.

But a ship with no shields or armor is a bad idea. Those Auroran railguns can shoot a great distance.

And why am I arguing. This should be on the Nova board. You're complaining about the current game. Download the Polycon TC it solves many of your gripes.

**

Okay, first off, when I said political assassination, I didn't mean hand-to-hand, with a frickin' KNIFE!!! And world leaders actually DO fly around occaisonally... Anybody ever hear of Air Force One? The President ticks off Krane, she finds out he's due a some sorry excuse for a peace summit with the Aurorans on Spacedock II, and she sends you out in a captured Abomination to blow up his personal transport. Why's that so hard? And it would change the game completely.

And yes, there's a crappy cloak that you get at the end of the Fed String, you get one at the end of the Rebel string, too. And the ship is NOT a cheat, I was providing alternates for Fed scoutships (light cannon w/ thorium reactor) and Rebel (biorelay w/ fission reactors) and Polaris scoutships (biorelay w/ MAMA reactor). And I didn't say it had NO shields or armor, just PRACTICALLY none. It can still take a few hits, but its primary objective is to run away from anything that even vaguely resembles something that can shoot at it.

I grant that the Nova scenario doesn't need any of this; it works beautifully just the way it is. What I'm pointing out is the ways I believe that it could be improved, by taking advantage of the game mechanics. This type of work does not require a TC plugin, and I may just end up doing the plug that provides this kind of stuff.

A few more rants:
Transports. We need more transports. The Aurorans use the same ships as the Feds (Terrapin/Pegasus/Lev), but the Feds don't use the Auroran ships (Argosy/Enterprise). What's up with that? If the Aurorans use Fed ships, make 'em use beat-the-****-up ones assembled out of parts from Fed and Sigma ships. The Rebels don't have any transports at all, and the Polaris have two huge freighters, but not a single shuttle.

Hypergates. Use more Hypergates. Give the Feds their own system, and the Aurorans their own. Only the Feds and the Rebels can use the Fed system, seeing as the Feds built it, and the Rebels will have hacked into it. Give the Polaris their own. Let somebody besides Sigma have hypergate access (although Sigma has access to the Sigma, Fed, and eventually Auroran systems).

Missions. Give Pyro a mission string. They deserve it. Have Sigma play a part in the main storylines; they're the single largest corporation, so they've gotta have some influence. And what about a mission string for the other Auroran Houses, and the Dechtakhars (sp?)?

Rant over.

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Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."

Quote

Originally posted by General Cade Smart:
What was the grin directed at? That youre happy that nothing is there? That you think exploration mission are a good idea?

😄 😄

Actually, neither of those 😄
Only time will tell.

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I used to jog but the ice kept falling out of my glass.
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Good weapons are instruments of fear; all creatures hate them. If you rejoice in victory, then you delight in killing. That is why victory must be observed like a funeral. - Tao Te Ching

Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
**the Polaris have two huge freighters, but not a single shuttle.

Hypergates. Use more Hypergates. Give the Feds their own system, and the Aurorans their own. Only the Feds and the Rebels can use the Fed system, seeing as the Feds built it, and the Rebels will have hacked into it. Give the Polaris their own. Let somebody besides Sigma have hypergate access (although Sigma has access to the Sigma, Fed, and eventually Auroran systems).**

Ah, but because it's a class-based society, there are no free traders, hence no small transport ships. The only ones that come close are the Mu'hari, and they have the zephyr.

As for the hypergates, it might be nice to see a plug add mission to repair them build new ones, but I think it's unrealistic in the Nova universe. Do they even know how to repair/build them anymore? As far as I know, Sigma just has the codes, not any particular skill with them. All I'll say about my TC is that it has interesting uses for hypergates, and no guarentee you'll see them in-game.

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Quote

Originally posted by Kame:
**:D 😄

Actually, neither of those 😄
Only time will tell.

**

That they take up space? That they lead the player to a wild goose chase into nowhere? Also, I take only time will tell as I dont want to ansver.

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I am eager to try to ansver mission questions

A lot of these things are already part of (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/sre/index.html")SRE(/url) , but I'll e-mail this threat to Pesimist Guy and Uber Dan anyway. We'll take it into consideration.

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Under a deomcratic government, however, it's viesa versa.

(This message has been edited by 21st Century Digital Boy (edited 04-04-2003).)

Quote

Originally posted by Kame:
**:D 😄
Actually, neither of those 😄
Only time will tell.
**

Kame is hinting to us, my extrapolation from this is that he is building a plug that incorporates many of these things that will be released in due time and he cannot
stop himself from subtly telling us. 🙂

I will flame spacecowboy later... 🙂 After I duplicate the cron resource a thousand times and see the impact it has on game performance.

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The Evil Spoonman
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"Life is to important to be taken seriously."

Just to nitpick and play devil's advocate, but most of the reasons presented to not make use of these features is that they would either A.Confuse the Player or B.Piss him off b/c he played for hours to get that Manticore and 6 Fed Carrier escorts. Am I the only one that realizes that both of these would simply make the game more like real life? When you're being chased down by a secret government agency, you ARE confused. Nothing would be clear to you, at least at the beginning. And losing it all happens everyday. Personally, I think that both these options should ALWAYS be included in a game. But DON'T make it just random, make it actually based upon what the player does. If the player screws up, make him/her pay, not just try the mission again in a game month. Sorry, that came out more like a rant than I had planned on, but I nonetheless stand be what I've said, as I believe it's all true.

--Ernimtir

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I like long walks, especially those taken by people who annoy me.

1. I would probably agree that the politics in EVN do seem a little shallow. Take for instance the Vell-os string where the aurorians give in after two planets are attacked, and the moshi house doesn't even call for reinforcements. However, politics are hard to implament in a game of this nature, and are better suited to some Starcraft, Ares or Master of Orion 3 game.

2. I agree here, crons are a valuble tool. However, if you use too many, the story can seem VERY linear and thus replay value is lost.

3. Failing a mission, however real, is very agrivating to the player. If done right, it could be awsome, if done wrong, could tick the player off enough not to continue to play the game.

4. I think so too. Also the systems to the west, vell-os space, once the vell-os string is compleated mabye mumanity can begin its expansion westwards and start terraforming those worlds.

5. Actualy, I find the number of ships in EVN to be quite satisfying.

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"...yet gradually we recovered, venturing cautiously back into the void of space afraid of what we might find there."

Quote

Originally posted by Ernimtir:
Just to nitpick and play devil's advocate, but most of the reasons presented to not make use of these features is that they would either A.Confuse the Player or B.Piss him off b/c he played for hours to get that Manticore and 6 Fed Carrier escorts. Am I the only one that realizes that both of these would simply make the game more like real life? When you're being chased down by a secret government agency, you ARE confused. Nothing would be clear to you, at least at the beginning. And losing it all happens everyday. Personally, I think that both these options should ALWAYS be included in a game. But DON'T make it just random, make it actually based upon what the player does. If the player screws up, make him/her pay, not just try the mission again in a game month. Sorry, that came out more like a rant than I had planned on, but I nonetheless stand be what I've said, as I believe it's all true.

The problem with life is, it doesn't make for good playing. People just don't play games that make them confused and/or angry. Besides, I'd even argue the real life parts with you too. If you're in a Manticore with 6 Fed Carrier escorts, who is going to take it all away from you? A bigger fleet perhaps? That happens in space, not on planets, and is already a part of Nova.

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Nova was never meant to take full advantage of all of the engine's abilities. Nova is a seperate game because it stretched EVO too far, and Ambrosia liked the story. If mcb only expanded the engine enough to allow Nova to work right, he would be making EV4 very soon afterwards to allow some other plug to work (but he has said he won't do an EV4, so we would all jjust be frustrated). For instance, Nova has no Key-carried ships, but mcb put it in there, so he said, to allow certain Star Trek ships to be possible, due to the large number of Trek plugs for the other EV games. If Nova did everything, there would be nothing cool for us developers to do that hadn't been done yet.

As for some of the things you ask for, many of them have been done before in one plug or another, although not likely all in one plug. There are a lot of TCs under construction right now that do what you are asking for, or something similar.

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"Damn, everybody wants something up their ass today! Yeah, I'm cool like that." - forge

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