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Sure it would make co-ordination difficult, but think. You would have much improved control over your fleets, as well as the room to make changes. You could send somebody else out with a small squad of fighters, say, aradas, helians, or similar heavy fighters with orders to distract the cruisers in the enemy flight. So they go cruising along, winging wide to go around, etc. Assuming you could give computers that order, they would should keep on going through, harassing the cruisers. Humans might spot one cruiser that is weekened, and deviate from his current target to kill the cruiser. Computers won't do that, and it would take to much to program them to. This is where humans are better. Sure we can make mistakes, we have to take time off to sleep, to eat, etc. we can make mistakes, but so can the computer. However, humans, or at least the ones that survive the longest, have the ability to learn from those mistakes. And we can adapt to those mistakes, and make them help. The pilot makes and error, drops a bomb in the wrong spot. Realizing this (and the fact he just droped a 3000 credit weapon), he lures the enemy cruiser to the area, and BOOM . The pilot made an error, corrected it, and probably turned out better than before.
Which would scare you more : 10 UE destroyers comanded by the computer, or 10 UE destroyers commanded by human pilots? Personally, I would be more scared of the humans, since they are unpredicable, or at least unconsistent (more than computers, anyway)
Another benefit is that human ships are frequently upgraded in weird ways that seve to make that ship vastly different from the standar of it's type. It is possible to make a Crescent Warship that can easily outfight the UE warship or the Voinian dreadnought, and runs like a Azdara. (or at least as close as a havy warship can, anyway)
------------------ Zitchas
(This message has been edited by Zitchas (edited 04-16-2000).)
Quote
Zitchas wrote: Which would scare you more : 10 UE destroyers comanded by the computer, or 10 UE destroyers commanded by a computer?
I would say, with conviction, "Neither." 10 UE Destroyers commanded by humas might scare me, though.
------------------ Analysis, Mr. Spock?
AIM: obormot345
Y'know, that's the very reason for hiring human mercenaries - they're smarter than AI, so they can charge more AI fleets are naturally cheaper than hiring mercs on a mission by mission basis, so they're good if you have the resources to build enough - but mercs are always better in the long run.
------------------ "Please accept my resignation. I don't want to belong to any club that will have me as a member." - Groucho Marx
ColdFusion wrote: **Besides, without AI ships, the galaxy does become a very lonely place. **
That is why EVOMP would be on the internet where all players are loged into one games. The universe will seem much less lonely with several thousand (maybe dozens of thousands ) humans running around. It would be chaotic, sure, and unprdictable, but hey, that's one of the main benefits to a MP game.
Having this many people online would make it possible for players to interact with other ships to a greater degree (e.g., , having conversations, merchants banding together to beat off pirates (or to gather enough money to hire someone to defend them to somewhere), having a duel with a guy who offended you by saying that your reactions are slower than a bulk freighter, etc. With this larger number of options, namely, infinite, the games would be just as interesting as standard EVO even if there where 1/5 the number of ships flying around.
Originally posted by ColdFusion: **Er, Zitchas, the easiest thing to do is to not have single player at all - saves time and money. **
Well, we allready have the basis for it, since the simgle player EVOMP would really jsut be EVO with a substantial upgrade to the game engine. Adding this feature on will make it attractive to those who can't afford to be online all the time, but would like to play EVO sometime without contending with all the subelties of dealing with humans. You got to admit that single player, without all the misions creation and server changes would make things much more enjoyable.
It only makes sense to have single player. Almost everything needed for single player is covered by the multiplayer engine, so it's really a small feature to add. The only difficulties I see are, if in multiplayer missions are solely human constructs, then single player would require a new mission type (though I really doubt that missions would be limited to human offered only anyways).
Having only multiplayer games would also guarantee no plug-ins as well, which would probably mean that EVMP would end up dead pretty soon. I think that plug-ins are essentially why EV/EVO has stayed popular...
------------------
Originally posted by kberg: **Having only multiplayer games would also guarantee no plug-ins as well, which would probably mean that EVMP would end up dead pretty soon. I think that plug-ins are essentially why EV/EVO has stayed popular...
**
I don't think you're right. As I see it, plugins could be hosted at the gameserver, then distributed and loaded into memory. Similar to how a Bolo gameserver distributes the map at the beginning of the game.
Of course, the problem is that this would require a rather large download at the start of every game. A different scenario would be to have the plugins at the client machine, and simply have a mechanism for verifying that the plugins are identical to that of the server, like Plugin Auditor.
As for graphics, which I know someone will bring up, it doesn't matter. Each person perceives the graphics that he has, so long as the necessary resources are present in his plug on his computer.
------------------ God. Root. What is difference? -Pitr
Originally posted by kberg: **It only makes sense to have single player. Almost everything needed for single player is covered by the multiplayer engine, so it's really a small feature to add. The only difficulties I see are, if in multiplayer missions are solely human constructs, then single player would require a new mission type (though I really doubt that missions would be limited to human offered only anyways).
Having only multiplayer games would also guarantee no plug-ins as well, which would probably mean that EVMP would end up dead pretty soon. I think that plug-ins are essentially why EV/EVO has stayed popular... **
You could still have plug-ins like in regular EVO missions, but the multiplayer engine would not load it. If you really wanted to have things, you could start up a server thus you could have your own cluster of systems with misions, etc and your own versions of outfits, etc. These would be NEW outfits, etc, to prevent problems with people going to one system buying a small outfit, then going soemwhere it is huge.
Response to the post by Obormot Yes, you could have plug-ins, but only ones that create new outfits or weapons or ships, etc. BUT none that modify existing ones.
Originally posted by Zitchas: **Response to the post by Obormot Yes, you could have plug-ins, but only ones that create new outfits or weapons or ships, etc. BUT none that modify existing ones. **
Blah, kill the plugins. Every modification is server-side, admin-only.
------------------ "His Strangelove All-Purpose Do-It-Yourself Defensive First Second or Third Strike Indestructible Fantastic State-of-the-Art B-Ware Offensive Attack Bomber can't compare with our M & M E & A Sub-Supersonic Invisible and Noiseless Defensive Second-Strike Offensive Attack Bomber." - from Closing Time , by Joseph Heller.
:mad: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
THERE IS NOT GOING TO BE A MULTIPLAYER EV / EVO QUIT THE WISHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:mad: :mad:
------------------ kill the hamsters gerbils are superior
Originally posted by gerbil320: **:mad: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:
Foolish gerbil! Although Ambrosia might have written off EVOMP, that doesn't mean that we can't have a go. All this 'wishing' might just become development ideas if kberg's game gets done.
Go and find some seed, or whatever gerbils do.
Seph
------------------ "Only two things are infinite -- the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein
Coding this thing keeps getting more and more fun...
Anyways I thought of a cool idea as well. A new outfit, the mass sensor. It would put up the mass of the target ship in the targeting area. That way, if you roughly knew the masses of various cargo ships, you could tell which ones are/are not carrying cargo (or extra weapons ;)). I think that could make life a little more interesting in multiplayer... We also could put a distance to target area in there as well.
(This message has been edited by kberg (edited 05-20-2000).)
To the gerbil: Your cybernautic screaming is pointless. We all here know (well we try to know) how complicated this project is. (get ready for a speech!)
So, you want to build a multiplayer escape velocity. Well, geuss what. You just completed the first step. You have the confidence and the motivation to do it. But, you know, it's people like you, little gerbil who takes everyone back that first step. Conclusion: your screaming is pointless and productless. It is also a good way to make yourself the annyoing one in a cyber community.
There, now that that is out of the way, this is for everyone else.
What's the second step? Realizing what you have to do to complete your project. The limitations, the advantages, and the work. We've realized the first two, but we still have to work on realizing the third. But sending negative comments to destroy the dream does not do anything. You know, the light bulb had probably been the dream of early americans for quite a long time. Of course they probably didn't imagine and indapendent light source as effective as what we have today in the form of a light bulb, but the dream lived on. And it eventually came true.
It may take time to get a titanic in motion, but once it's going it's hard to stop it. Okay i'm tired. See, I didn't capitilize my I. That's a bed sign. {Subimit Reply}...
kgerg, your ideas on having a mass sensor and some other type to detect the distance to the target are worth considering. especially since they will actually change the appearance of the game. They will also make being a pirate funner. He, he, he. How well are you doing in the coding? how much have you got done? If you have any visual images, post them somewhere so that those of us who are interested can see, if you need visual stuff done, I might be able to help.
With some hard work, a bunch of time, and a litle luck, we'll ram Escape Velocity Overdrive Multiplayer down the throats of Ambrosia. If nesecary, we could change the name, and release it ourselves, all though we wouldn't be able to afford a server setup like the one we'd need. Maybe get some rich guy to sponsor us, or maybe apple. that would be nice : to have EVOMP mass distributed with every new mac, with apple paying us royalties or something.
One more thing GERBIL, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO CONTRIBUTE IN A POSITIVE MANNER TO THIS TOPIC, STAY OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(url="http://"http://alienorb.com/celestium.html")http://alienorb.com/celestium.html(/url) This game is definatly the answer to most of our problems. Another thing we need a whole new univers and more ships for this, mabey even being able to put in your own ships but they will need a price set for them by the admins and moderators. they will change what is nessisary and set a price. Then you can own a shipyard and sell ships for money
------------------ well thats it
Originally posted by kberg: **
That's your opinion... There are solutions to every problem...
------------------ tear it down / AIM: G2uidehatr
Originally posted by Zitchas: **kgerg, your ideas on having a mass sensor and some other type to detect the distance to the target are worth considering. especially since they will actually change the appearance of the game. They will also make being a pirate funner. He, he, he. How well are you doing in the coding? how much have you got done? If you have any visual images, post them somewhere so that those of us who are interested can see, if you need visual stuff done, I might be able to help.
What is with this "we" stuff? You working with Kberg or one of the two other teams? =P
With the thought of new ships being added: Why not make a new ship design a universal effort? Have the new design submitted, reviewed by heads of government, change it accordingly, and then have all the governments bid on the design with the money going to the player who proposed it. Maybe a small royalty could also be in effect for the designer, and outfits could work the same way.
Apple sponsoring us/you would be great! I might propose that to a friend I have at apple. A massively multi-player game distributed FREE!
This thread really should have its own website.
Eytee
No I am not directly coding with kberg or anyothers, but I contributed to the develpent of the framework which I presume kberg is coding towards.