Your browser does not seem to support JavaScript. As a result, your viewing experience will be diminished, and you have been placed in read-only mode.
Please download a browser that supports JavaScript, or enable it if it's disabled (i.e. NoScript).
I was just wondering about the aspects of patriotism in ev original. If one fights against the conederation, despite his logical reasoning, he is fighting against the earth, and thus, against the united states of america. I was just wondering about the moral ramifications created by this action.
BTW- this is my fist post on the ambrosia bulletin boards
That's a really interesting question, come to think of it.
Well, it stands to reason that, considering the number of planets in the EV universe, not everyone is born on Earth, much less the USA.
The way I've always seen it, when one was fighting against the Confederation, it was the equivalent of fighting against an oppressive regime. The rebels are fighting because they don't think there's enough freedom in the Confederation, so by fighting for the rebels, you are basically fighting to promote freedom, which is—going back to the USA patriotism idea—an American goal.
Likewise, fighting for the Confederacy could be seen as being patriotic for the conservative regime and preserving the status quo.
Oh yeah. Welcome to the boards!
Peace, Solel
------------------ All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king. —J. R. R. Tolkien (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/search.cgi?action=intro&default;=26")The Search Feature(/url)
I think it's ironic that the government is a 'confederation', meaning the states/provinces/planets are independent from the central government when pertaining to states' rights and similar issues...the Confederation would not let its members secede if they so chose.
Quote
Originally posted by AngelB: I was just wondering about the aspects of patriotism in ev original. If one fights against the conederation, despite his logical reasoning, he is fighting against the earth, and thus, against the united states of america.
I think that by 2246, individual nations would be a bit more "unified;" I have trouble imagining the center of the Confederation being on a planet that had dozens of different governments. The US, as we know it, probably doesn't exist.
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula,(/url) your friendly (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")self-promoting(/url) EV & EVO Boards/Addon/Newswire/Chronicles moderator (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")evula.com(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.net/")evula.net(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/")evula.org(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")ev-nova.net(/url) :: (url="http://"http://forums.evula.com/")Lair Forums(/url) (url="http://"http://pftn.evula.net")pftn(/url) | (url="http://"http://dreamwave.evula.net")dreamwave(/url) | (url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net")davidarthur(/url) | (url="http://"http://ucplugs.evula.net")ucplugs(/url) | (url="http://"http://jager.evula.net")jager(/url) | (url="http://"http://stark.evula.net")stark(/url)
wow, i've been waiting for the collapse of the usa for 6mo now...just 250 more yrs...
should i see this as a sign of things to come as predicted by matt burch? is he in any way a licensed or unlicensed fortune-teller/precognitive/clairvoyant or otherly mystically enabled?
(This message has been edited by AngelB (edited 06-30-2003).)
I doubt it. He's probably just a gifted programmer, but you never know.
I'm sure Matt will let us know if he's Nostradamus reincarnated, or some other prophet.
Originally posted by AngelB: I think it's ironic that the government is a 'confederation', meaning the states/provinces/planets are independent from the central government when pertaining to states' rights and similar issues...the Confederation would not let its members secede if they so chose.
Sorry, i think you got it backwards. The Government you describe there is a Federation(as seen in Star Trek ;)). Confederations are opressive.
------------------ Insanity has its advantages
Please, if you cite fictional shows as references, do not use them as sources of accurate information. a confederation is a system of loosely organized states, made up with a common purpose. a specific example is the confederate states of america. it had a president and a congress, but each state was basically free to do its own thing. the national government was there as a guideline. nation<state. theoretically, states could leave if they wanted. federations, on the other hand, are more concrete structures, with a more pyramid shaped hierarchy. nation>state.
and to clarify my most recent post, i meant "THE Confederation" wouldn't let planets leave, not conferderations in general.
------------------ dude, if those feminists are right and God really is a chick, is she a loudmouth bitch like them or more like a hooter's girl?
Originally posted by AngelB: I think it's ironic that the government is a 'confederation'... the Confederation would not let its members secede if they so chose.
I've always figured that the real problem is not that the rebels wanted to secede, but that they quite clearly want to destroy the rest of the Confederation as well.
Originally posted by UE Admiral: Sorry, i think you got it backwards. The Government you describe there is a Federation(as seen in Star Trek ).
The actual meaning of the words is as follows: Federation - a group of regions in which the most power is held by a strong central government. Confederation - a group of regions in which the central government is relatively weak compared to the individual regions.
Added to that are complexities such as:
Federations are often called confederations in order to make them more palatable to regional interests (ie. Canada).
Confederations often turn into federations (ie. the United States, and now the EU if some people get their way).
Originally posted by UE Admiral: Confederations are opressive.
Either form of government can be oppressive if it wants to - it's just that in a confederation, the oppressors live closer to you.
------------------ David Arthur (url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/survival_guide/")EV Nova Survival Guide(/url) Truth! Justice! Freedom! And A Hard-Boiled Egg!
There's plenty of morons in the U.S. All the more reason to fight the 'Feds.
Indeed, the Rebels wanted to secede. And the Confederation doesn't seem to want and cooperate.
------------------ (url="http://"http://dreamwave.evula.net")Dreamwave Studios(/url) - The graphics galore™ and resource zone for EV/O/N development (url="http://"http://www.evula.com")EVula's Lair(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.hyperiums.com")Hyperiums(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.apple.com")Apple Computer(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.homestarrunner.com")Homestar Runner(/url)
Well, you may think of the Confederation form the civil war in 1860. The United States was a seperate country. Who knows what happens to the US in that time zone.
------------------ Destroyer E is the name of my ship and the name has a good meaning.
I find it interesting to think that, in the Civil War, the Confederate States of America were the ones doing the rebelling! If we were to go with Mr. Arthur's definition, then EV's "Confederation" is in reality a "Federation." By fighting the Confederation, the Rebellion is not fighting the people that live there, just its oppressive government. In "Operation Iraqi Freedom," we didn't go there to fight the people, just rid them of their country's oppressive government and thus give the people their freedom. Personally, I think there were "ulterior" motives behind going in there (i.e. nuclear weapons, bio-weapons...), but we used the "get rid of the oppressive gov't and give the people their freedom" (not a bad idea) as the reason for going over there. Welcome to the boards, AngelB!
~Ace
------------------ "Hanging is too good for a man who makes puns; he should be drawn and quoted." --Fred Allen
Originally posted by CaptAceHarddrive: If we were to go with Mr. Arthur's definition, then EV's "Confederation" is in reality a "Federation."
Actually, there are very few details given in the game about the political systems of either government (all we really know is that the Confederation has a military, a Senate, and an investigative body of some sort, and that the rebellion has a military), and there isn't really much evidence about how much power is divided in the Confederation between the general and the local (planetary, I assume) governments.
Originally posted by CaptAceHarddrive: By fighting the Confederation, the Rebellion is not fighting the people that live there, just its oppressive government.
I don't feel like getting into an in-depth argument on this point (again) , but I suggest you consider a few contentious points, such as the frequent rebel attacks on civilian traffic in Confederation space, the fact that there is precious little indication of people within the Confederation being in any way less than satisfied with it, the nebulous nature of the original accusations against the Confederation, and the fact that the rebel storyline is a far more aggressive one than that of the Confederation.
For more details, see the numerous previous threads on these subjects, several of which I myself have posted in.
There is nothing like some confusing history.
I avoid the whole patriotism issue by sticking with the Confederates. They have Earth, they're going to win, and they have the best stuff. Nyah.
------------------ I had a (url="http://"http://forums.evula.com/viewforum.php?f=6")dream(/url) that I had about a (url="http://"http://evula.com")dozen(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=56&SUBMIT;=Go")links(/url) here. (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=6&SUBMIT;=Go")Mostly(/url) to other (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")places(/url) on this (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=1")site(/url). (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=10&SUBMIT;=Go")Weird(/url).
Originally posted by Rawzer: **I avoid the whole patriotism issue by sticking with the Confederates. They have Earth, they're going to win, and they have the best stuff. Nyah.
**
But this EV does not end...
None of them do... What's your point?
(This message has been edited by Rawzer (edited 07-02-2003).)
Originally posted by Rawzer: **None of them do... What's your point?
You said the Feds would win. They can't, the game does not end.
Originally posted by Destroyer E: **You said the Feds would win. They can't, the game does not end. **
Confidence in success is the 'Fed's weakness.
Originally posted by Destroyer E: **There is nothing like some confusing history.
ya, but there's even more nothing like some confusing made-up history with contradictions and blank pages
------------------