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Hmm, maybe you'er not understanding me, or maybe you're just not listening.
LETHE WOULD HATE THE CONFEDERATION
1)The Confeds Invade Lethe 2)The Confeds Destroy the Lethean Fleets, yet leave the Cydonians intact 3)The Confeds force the Letheans to give the Cydonians their water, which they have no right to take 4)(Here's what you're saying)The Letheans love the Confeds? 5)A fleet comes in, liberates the Letheans 6)The Confeds are going to come in and take over the planet again 7)Which of the following is more likely:
a)They cheer as the Confederation comes in, exploits their food, and forces them to give their water to their hated enemies b)They spite the Confederation by making sure they can't ever use the planet that they have no right to. c)Everyone starts watching Blue's Clues on TV.
It's definitely A!!!!...
Hardly
------------------ (Insert Clever Remark Here)
1&2) We disable their fleet, in accordance with a request from our friends. 3) We made them share what they had. We left everything else in their possesion. We didnt remove one official, or anyone else. 4) We're saying they'd prefer people who leave them to live their lives over people who would ruin them completely. 5) Liberates them from whom exactly? The space fairies? 6) We're coming in to save them from other planets who want to ruin them for their own gain 7) They cheer as the Confederation comes in, stops their planet being wasted, and lets them sell their food to whoever the hell they want.
------------------ If someone makes a mistake, it is not my fault. I will however use it to my advantage.
Voted most likely to be a serial killer by Insane Asylum - 2002
Quote
Originally posted by BariSaxGuy5: **Hmm, maybe you'er not understanding me, or maybe you're just not listening.
1)The Confeds Invade Lethe 2)The Confeds Destroy the Lethean Fleets, yet leave the Cydonians intact 3)The Confeds force the Letheans to give the Cydonians their water, which they have no right to take **
We didn't invade Lethe. In fact, by our alliance we had to do this, and we killed one person in total and did nothing whatsoever to damage their government. It was probably the cleanest victory - "pacification" - in the history of mankind.
Of course. We call these little things alliances. We didn't destroy, we disabled. Those fleets may go to whoever would claim them...pity Cydonia did, and you forgot to.
Err...Bari, the war is over "water rights", and that is all that is said. You can't say that the Letheans are being forced to give anything. You don't even know who is the "bad guy" in this war. I am being totally fair in that I am sharing whatever it is, whoever it belongs to.
------------------ -Lyat Esponer Corsair
I am requesting a pause in the story, since both KK and Mac said they will be unable to post tonight.
Also, let's just forget the citizenry of Lethe, since we obviously cannot come to agreement over this issue. We'll just assume Lethe follows the regular rules of capture, Deneb, however, does not
(This message has been edited by BariSaxGuy5 (edited 05-19-2002).)
Don't worry, I covered it.
Guys, nest time you play politics with me, try not to leave me holes I could pilot a Death Star through, OK? It's more fun when I have to think a bit.
Also, recommend you back down - now. Because let me tell you, I haven't started playing hardball yet. Dragon, about two more steps down the road you're on and nothing you do can stop me from tearing the Confederation apart. You can destroy every Rebel fleet, even kill Anderson - It will make no difference.
On the other hand, go ahead - this should be fun.
------------------ - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com
Only if you'd like to use your immense bias to modify the actual situation. If you do, we're going to have words. I can see many of the things you're planning right now, and many aren't even possible if you'd care to actually play fair and be realistic here. If the Confederation really is a "dictatorship", politically you can do nothing to harm her internal integrity. And etc.
We'll get to that when you start playing hardball with a forklift, 'kay?
SD, Mac just e-mailed me to tell you Skyblade's fleet did not need to cross Farazon. It went from Palshife to Orion.
(Mac's got a lightning storm coming to his house. He's ... frustrated that he had to shut down 'til it's over.)
(Bari, help is on the way...!)
- KK
------------------ Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch
(Oops! Double post.)
(This message has been edited by Kaptain Karl (edited 05-20-2002).)
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **Only if you'd like to use your immense bias to modify the actual situation. If you do, we're going to have words. I can see many of the things you're planning right now, and many aren't even possible if you'd care to actually play fair and be realistic here. If the Confederation really is a "dictatorship", politically you can do nothing to harm her internal integrity. And etc.
We'll get to that when you start playing hardball with a forklift, 'kay?**
I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here. So far, everything I've said is supported by the actions in the story of various parties. Obviously, things can be interpreted in somewhat different ways, what I'm seeing is the Confederation trying to play both ends against the middle and failing at it. Dragon, you can't have a government dedicated to keeping the peace that goes off and starts or restarts unnecessary wars at the same time. The peace proposal we offered was completely, 100% fair to both sides - you can't just blow it off and expect people to believe that you're a peaceful nation.
Also, you and Rak's attacks on Diphidia are making you look pretty stupid, because you're going on all the wrong facts. If you read everything that has been posted carefully, you'll find that the two reasons you're going after Diphidia - to get Anderson and to get the DAC - are stupid, because Diphidia II has no official relationship with either, and nothing Anderson has done links him to Diphidia, except by prhaps the most tenuous of circumstantial leashes - certainly not enough to declare war.
By the way, I am apidly approaching political forklifts, but I would never use that easter egg in the story.
One other thing, re Bari's post that Dragon took acception(sp?) to - We can remove as many of the details, such as tax increases, as you'd like, Dragon, but I think the principle idea - that some Letheans would be involved in a grass roots counterattack against Confederates remaining on the planet, is quite reasonable, and should stand. If you want to argue that the Letheans would welcome the Confederation after you destroyed their fleet and forced them to accept "observers," then I'm going to argue that an explosion on your ship a few years back knocked a couple of bolts loose in your head as well as aboard the ship.
Sorry about the battle post. It was late at night and I wasn't thinking. I'll revise it.
------------------ "Go confidently in the direction of your dreams; live the life you've imagined!" Military Technology: (url="http://"http://www.army-technology.com/")Army(/url) - (url="http://"http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/factfile/ffiletop.html")Navy(/url) - (url="http://"http://www.af.mil/news/indexpages/fs_index.shtml")Air Force(/url) - (url="http://"http://www.firstgov.gov/topics/defense.html?ssid=1008272825086275_172")Defense Links(/url) Event Horizon: (url="http://"http://homepage.mac.com/marshalfak/")Rauther Power Industries Inc.(/url) - (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum26/HTML/005165.html")Event Horizon Sign-Up(/url) Macavenger's EV Webstory: (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/Forum6/HTML/002267.html")Sign-Up Thread(/url)
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl: **SD, Mac just e-mailed me to tell you Skyblade's fleet did not need to cross Farazon. It went from Palshife to Orion.
**
Skyblade's fleet can feel free to go to Orion if it wants to...there's nothing there. The word you're looking for is "Osiris", old boy. I am assuming that was what you meant?
Here we go...our political forklift. Macavenger, do you even realise that by "political forklift" I'm referring not to an outstanding move, but a cheat?
"Playing hardball", trying to sound superior, etc. We've all known exactly what you've been aiming at from day one, and it's sad, really. I was hoping you might be slightly more intelligent than that.
I've personally put you before Rooster in the worst moderators of all time. No, I will not explain myself, because I've examined you long enough to realise you simply wouldn't understand the concepts.
<florid bow> Unless you happen to grow up anytime soon, consider me out of your little story, and all other stories in which you care to participate as a moderator in. Don't feel sad - I did the same with Rooster.
And before you care to put on the superiority hat and claim I'm backing out of a situation because I'm losing fairly...ah, at this point EVula would have to moderate. Let's cut it short, shall we?
im with SD. bye bye.
------------------ Insanity has its advantages
I'm out as well, since I get fed up very, very, quickly when people completely ignore everything I, or my allies, do. Just because the Confederation is winning, you have to start making up nonsense about restarting wars which were still going on, us fighting where we are nowhere near, and then having the gall to complain about the fact we actually inavde our enemies, the Rebellion.
Looks like the Rebellion will win after all, but that's because all the fed leaders have now vanished, and the population has had a 180° turn of heart. Oh well.
RMA
Addendum: I have to add, that what is really, really annoying, is the fact that Macavenger stated he would only moderate on things like the Confederation blowing up every Rebel fleet in one post. As it is, he's gone far beyond what most moderators would do who have said they'll do such things. He's also twisted things horribly in his favour. What, exactly, is wrong with the Confederation using actual tactics to win? Is there an unwritten rule that the Confederation must lose?
Addendum 2:Just read some of the battle posts a bit more and...well, I'm amazed. Magically, ships more powerful get blown up almost instantly by weaker ships, escorting ships being completely ignored. Fleets happen to drift into range of planetary energy weapons. Planet based weapons, with no shields of any type, manage to survive, when a single torp hit would decimate them completely. Whole fleets jump through systems without a care in the world, losing only a few ships when the fleet which attacks them has been waiting for them, and gets to attack them as they prepare to hyper out.
Things just get more, and more unbelievable. Following what everyone does here, Beta Fleet could have taken over Tiber in a single post, cleared up all the systems in the area, and dealt with the other rebel fleet in the area by teatime, and taken just a few fighter losses. Everyone assumes their enemy will fly their ships even thicker than the computer does on a bad day, while all the posters ships fly with perfection. Bad, bad, and bad.
(This message has been edited by RMA (edited 05-21-2002).)
Oh, and why in hell do we have a "unified news network"? That's extremely unrealistic, you realise. (unofficially, as I've quit, the Confederation would have used the GTN, Confederate-loyal, based around Confederate systems, and INN would not be available)
From the story thread...
Originally posted by Espona: OOC:That battle post was ridiculous.
No. "Ridiculous" would have been wiping you out altogether. That's why I sent only a Wing of almost comparable size.
My ships were apparently stupid enough to stay out of support range of each other huh?
Previous battle posts had your ships bombarding the surface batteries. Now you want them to have been doing that in a close formation? In that case, the surface batteries would have reduced your number before Echo Wing's arrival.
And my Kestrels apparently stayed out of the fight the whole time, doing nothing.
No. My ships wouldn't come near your slower -- but admittedly powerful -- Kestrels. (I figured the "most" I could realistically hope for was for two of your Kestrels to fall to the same tactic. No way would all four succumb before your ships tightened up in close support of each other.
And my ships also were seemingly stupid enough to move right into the torp batteries line of fire.
Um ... "Yes?" Some of your 'Vettes pursued our first 'Vette toward the surface. (What? You wanted your paper-shielded Lightnings to do it?) Some of your 'Vettes were already near the surface trying to strafe the batteries. My 'Vettes caught some of them "between a rock and a hard place." As I said before, I did not obliterate you. I just hurt you badly. (Look at what you did to the Denebans. Why is it okay for you, but not me?)
Every move I made has been crticized, and I've had enough. I quit.
C'mon, Espona. You have plenty of storyline at your disposal.
<<No. "Ridiculous" would have been wiping you out altogether. That's why I sent only a Wing of almost comparable size.>>
No, it was ridiculous.
<<Previous battle posts had your ships bombarding the surface batteries. Now you want them to have been doing that in a close formation? In that case, the surface batteries would have reduced your number before Echo Wing's arrival.>>
The bombarding was taking place at torpedo range, with the ships moving back and force in a wave, I'd imagine. They would never hit with torps, and the turrets (batteries don't exist) would be out of range four times over.
<<No. My ships wouldn't come near your slower -- but admittedly powerful -- Kestrels. (I figured the "most" I could realistically hope for was for two of your Kestrels to fall to the same tactic. No way would all four succumb before your ships tightened up in close support of each other.>>
In fact, they'd all come into close support within about 10 seconds, before you could destroy a single one. Be realistic, KK.
Um ... "Yes?" Some of your 'Vettes pursued our first 'Vette toward the surface. (What? You wanted your paper-shielded Lightnings to do it?) Some of your 'Vettes were already near the surface trying to strafe the batteries. My 'Vettes caught some of them "between a rock and a hard place." As I said before, I did not obliterate you. I just hurt you badly. (Look at what you did to the Denebans. Why is it okay for you, but not me?)>>
Why would they have to follow at all? Aren't you making a tactical decision for Espona there? An important one, also.
<<C'mon, Espona. You have plenty of storyline at your disposal.>>
I think the fact that his allies has left, and he joined at my asking to help me might have something to do with it, KK. Anyway, I'm frequenting this topic until Mac posts, but I'd imagine Espona is already gone.
Originally posted by RMA: **Addendum 2:Just read some of the battle posts a bit more and...well, I'm amazed. Magically ... Whole fleets jump through systems without a care in the world, losing only a few ships when the fleet which attacks them has been waiting for them, and gets to attack them as they prepare to hyper out.
Things just get more, and more unbelievable ... Everyone assumes their enemy will fly their ships even thicker than the computer does on a bad day, while all the posters ships fly with perfection. Bad, bad, and bad.**
Okay, now I'm irritated too.
It's been my experience with every webstory that the initial aggressors "set the tone" for the story. You Confeds are finally getting a dose of your own style of battle posts and you can't take it. (Remember the "hillarious" mission without a single loss your side posted?) Accept much of the blame for how quickly this got out of hand yourselves, Esponer and RMA. Geez!!!
(And since I'm hurting feelings already...) What's up with everybody about whether or not "pacification" equals "taking over"??? Throughout history the vanquished have believed they were unfairly treated, while the victors have believed they saved mankind a more serious blow than the one they delivered to the losers. Of course the same event will be viewed very differently from the "other side."
(I'm from Alabama. Tons of people there still refer to "The Civil War" as "The War Of Northern Aggression." Ever see those "The South Will Rise Again!" bumper stickers???)
(Even in my pique, I must say Rak, once again is a fair fighter/player. You give yourself the most realistic losses. Congrats and thank you. I was looking forward to engaging you in battle. Too bad it looks like we won't get there....)
Originally posted by SilverDragon: "Playing hardball", trying to sound superior, etc. We've all known exactly what you've been aiming at from day one, and it's sad, really. I was hoping you might be slightly more intelligent than that.
I'm not sure what you're saying here - I've been reacting to what's happened in the story, admittedly with a Rebel spin, since Anderson has worked with the Rebels in the past. It's a matter of staying in the context of the character, combined with my own sense of morality. I suppose you'll have to take my word for it, but honestly, if Skyblade had been around to command the Rebellion at the beginning, and had he not done some things right, Anderson would have worked for the Confederation.
Originally posted by SilverDragon: I've personally put you before Rooster in the worst moderators of all time. No, I will not explain myself, because I've examined you long enough to realise you simply wouldn't understand the concepts.
Apparently not. Least agreeable player I could understand, as that would be difference in opinion of playing style, and I can understand that, even if I don't tend to think there's much wrong with my playing style. However, I can't quite figure out why you hate my moderation, as I've basically moderated nothing during the whole dang story. That was the way this story was supposed to work - no moderation if possible. I thought the lasseiz-faire(sp?) style of moderating was generally favored by the webboard.
Now, I haven't had time to look into the battle involving KK that everyone seems to be complaining about yet. I'll let you know what I think of that in a bit.
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl: **(Even in my pique, I must say Rak, once again is a fair fighter/player. You give yourself the most realistic losses. Congrats and thank you. I was looking forward to engaging you in battle. Too bad it looks like we won't get there....) **
Thank you, KK. I take that as a real compliment. Oh, and you never know. I may start playing again if either I feel like it or Mac makes a few changes for the better.