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The main problem that I am consistently seeing is that of in the first post of a battle, half of the enemy fleet get destroyed. People need to just cool down and not play so much of the battle in their first battle post. Just a thought...
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Originally posted by Jimbob: **When will Skyblade get some income to restock my fleet? Once page two ends? Or is it three pages?
**
End of page three. And as I start to get a picture in my mind of what happened, your fleet is going to need some serious restocking. Though the Aliens will too. I must admit, however injudiciously you guys executed the posts, that was an incredibly well designed net Skyblade. Once I figured out that you'd taken the main body of the 101st in there, I just about fell off my chair. Didn't see that one coming, and it was brilliant.
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I believe we all get extra income on topic page three, but his Macniss (oops, make that Mac ;)) gets the final say...
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Hey Mac... CHECK YOUR E-MAIL!
Also, try to get that client fixed up and ready for business.
I really want to see you on the I nternational R elaying C ommunicator!
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Originally posted by Macavenger: **End of page three. And as I start to get a picture in my mind of what happened, your fleet is going to need some serious restocking.;) Though the Aliens will too. I must admit, however injudiciously you guys executed the posts, that was an incredibly well designed net Skyblade. Once I figured out that you'd taken the main body of the 101st in there, I just about fell off my chair. Didn't see that one coming, and it was brilliant.
Heh, so I finally made some sense here?
I didn't make that clear... Yes, the entire 101st eventually went into the Verdica system just as Azdara arrived. Perhaps that should underline the easy (well, not really easy ) victory. I was waiting for the alien fleets to take the bait, and I guessed my original route through the outer line of alien worlds payed off.
Oh, Skyblade, while we are discussing this battle, one thing that bothered me was that you placed me into a certain part of the battle when I had planned to come from the rear, where I ended up posting attacking, before reading your new post. I hope that this doesn't mess things up at all.... Also,in the future, could you please let me decide where I jump in, or if you want me to be somewhere, send me a message and then I'll follow your orders. I'm not at all angry or anything, I just don't like the idea of somebody else controlling my fleet.
Originally posted by Azdara Ace: **Oh, Skyblade, while we are discussing this battle, one thing that bothered me was that you placed me into a certain part of the battle when I had planned to come from the rear, where I ended up posting attacking, before reading your new post. I hope that this doesn't mess things up at all.... Also,in the future, could you please let me decide where I jump in, or if you want me to be somewhere, send me a message and then I'll follow your orders. I'm not at all angry or anything, I just don't like the idea of somebody else controlling my fleet.;)
That's another problem with webstories. While you're busy posting a message, someone else could be doing the same with extrememly similar content.
I came out of hyperspace depending on where I came from. Since the aliens came from the north, their backs were toward me. I went through the exact same route and ended up delievering a suprise. I assumed you exited hyperspace exactly where the route lead you, close to the front of the alien fleets. Perhaps in our future such battles where joint fleets are involved, I'll sort things out via e-mail or the encrypter (if I can get it to work :p). For now, leave things where they are...
Also, I wasn't controlling your fleet (with the exception of bringing your fleet to Sovet). I simply put your exit route into logical terms and assumed you'd end up in front of the alien fleet. Regardless of what we originally intended, things still went pretty much the way I guessed.
Originally posted by Macavenger ** spl, the reason a few fighters didn't show up is simple: tactics. My bomb delivery group was led by a set of larger ships, followed by a group of fighters behind them. The ships and their engine trails in front effectively screen the following fighters from detection.
I don't consider anything I've done so far blatant cheating, spl. Perhaps I've overestimated a couple of my tactics slightly, but I think in general they're fairly accurate. Now, Skyblade, in the future, and even now, if you think I'm going to far, call me on it here, and give me your ideas. I freely admit you've got a more objective viewpoint in battles between myself and the pirates.**
I am still not satisfied with any of this.
Didn't take advantage? I had enogh ships to crush Jim with one attack (do you know how many seeker modules 8 Battlecurisers, 3 Carriers, 8 HCruisers, 8 Desrtoyers and plety of fighters have?( while in fromation ) Do you, do really?) I though that common sense would be the leading factor in this battle, but then I was shocked by Jim's fleets's charisma, how his fighters dodged volley after volley of modules, canisters and assorted turret and beam fire. How they've managed to leapt through the ranks destoying ship after ship. Then with their quick wits managed to cantact CS who contacted Ace who then hyper jumped several systems to converge on the Alien fleet that was just sitting there waiting to be destroyed. Give me a break!
Look man, I don't care about the losses. I'm agrivated by the fact that you took advantage of me not bieng home.( I was out for 5 hrs ) Even if there was 10 of you, and I had 10 fleets I still need to respond to every post at a time. You can't just be piling up the posts on me.
I understand that I still have a fleet, correct? Well what good is a fleet of two fighters now that three enemy fleets are present in the system?
I call for a new rule that prevents this from happening.
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Originally posted by rebel council: **I am still not satisfied with any of this.
Hey! Even though I didn't say that my ships got hit with seeker modules and ****, I still took it into consideration and lost just about my whole frickin fleet! And you have more than fighters! Read the stats, man...
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(This message has been edited by Jimbob (edited 12-28-2001).)
I've already stated my point, RC, and I'm not going to say them again. The whole battle might have been in your favor from the beginning had you actually attacked Jimbob's fleet when you warped in. That was a huge mistake, and you basically turned out to be the defender...
The truth is, no matter how we sort this out, someone isn't going to be happy. I'm never happy when I lose a battle, but I put up with it regardless. I'd suggest you take the story from where it is. That'd be a huge favor, and get this thing moving again. When you lose a battle, think about what you can still do. You can stand and fight, or you can retreat the protection of the core worlds, await topic page 4, and build yourself a good-sized fleet.
Even if you were able to completely crush Jimbob, Azdara and I would have finished you off. Besides, you basically already did destroy Jimbob's fleet... Enough is never enough, is it?
Hehe, there's more discussion that actual webstory posting. I guess we should scratch any ideas about a BFS IV, even though I already have a plot in mind...
Originally posted by spl_cadet: **1. So **ing what if they were led by larger ships? Guess what, sensors can detect ships in close escort. Recheck Escape Velocity if you aren't sure. 2. The blatant cheating is the fact that you gave me absolutely no choice about anything in the very first post and pretty much killed my entire fleet with that post. If I am forced to do something that is cheating in my book. 3. More cheating is assuming that pirates are the dumbest creatures ever. As I said earlier, just why do you think that I wouldn't have fighters at the very least inspect that group of 4 gunships? Don't you think that would look a bit suspicious, a small group coming in with no support?
1. While based on EV, this isn't quite the same. EV isn't 3D, this is. Ev operates with a lot fewer ships in system. Pardon me for trying to do something realistic. 2. With the first post, I destroyed 4 Halberds and a group of fighters. That's not even close to half your fleet, let alone the entire thing. Recheck your facts. As for being forced, well, let me draw an analogy to chess: tactics can contain forcing moves. 3. I am not assuming you're stupid. Supposing your fighters go out to inspect them: - The lead ships are 4 Hammerheads (along with Destroyer M8s right behind them), equipped with 6 HALO tubes each. Any interference - even a hint of attrention - directed at them by a Ghost CAP, and the Ghosts would vanish immediately. - If a more major force followed, the escort included 36 Stingrays, 24 Skates, and 3 Destroyer M7s in the rear. Any group of fighters you could field attempting to tangle with that would be toast. - If a Drake or two that might have been close enough to intercept in time had shown up, the 3 M8s, the M7s, and after they had dropped the 4 Hammerheads would certainly have held them off long enough for the Devil Rays to land their bombs. Frankly, I don't see anything else you could try. Perhaps saying 4 Gunboats wasn't strictly accurate, you might have caught a hint of a couple Destroyers too. Meanwhile, most of your fleet was getting pummeled by the main lines of my fleet.
Now, spl, you are actually guilty of one of the things you're charging me with: assuming the enemy is a moron. For example, when the defense fleet came up, do you think there's any chance, when I have fighters swarming all over which outnumber yours by a huge margin, that I'm not going to send a group of them off to hit the Peregrines? Gimme a break, we know what kind of power those mount. Even if you send the Starscreamers in behind, like I did, I'm certainly going to escort my heavy fighters, so Stingrays would be on the scene to deal with them anyway. Some of the otehr things you did in your initial retaliation were equally ludicrous, though not necessarily in the way of assuming stupidity on my part.
I'm inclined to dismiss most of your attack out of hand, seen as how I can offer a detailed explanation of why everything you've suggested wouldn't work, and all I hear from you are vague accusations. Now, let's forget this and move on to business. If you want to argue about my moderation with Asriel's fleet, I'm all ears for that, so long as you do it in a less confrontational manner.
Now, back to business:
The Dreden situation:
I've finished up my redo of the stats. RC, I admit, there's no way I can make this totally fair for you, and I really hate that. However,, luckily for you, Jimbob set up a lot of matches favorable to you. So, the final stats from the Verdica battle, as of Skyblade's last post there:
Saint+:
1 Carrier 1 Battlecruiser 2 Cruisers 1 Destroyer
RC:
1 Battlecruiser 1 Heavy Cruiser 2 Cruisers 1 Destroyer
Jim:
2 Athena 2 Odysseus 3 Hawk
Verdica Defense Fleet:
6 Thunderclap
Skyblade:
1 Liberty 23 Thunderclap 17 Hawk 22 Lynx 26 Cricket
Ace:
3 Titan Battlecruisers 4 Athena Battlegunships 7 Odysseus Cruisers 15 Thunderclap Destroyers 8 Hawk Gunships 19 Lynx Heavy Fighters 33 Slicer Medium Fighters 38 Cricket Interceptors
(I'd explain how I arrived at all this, but that would take up more space than my first topic post. Anyone who wants more details, email me.)
(edit) Rak, my email box is showing up decidedly empty... could you have forgotten to send it? oh, and I got my, um, thing working again... (/edit)
Originally posted by rebel council: **(do you know how many seeker modules 8 Battlecurisers, 3 Carriers, 8 HCruisers, 8 Desrtoyers and plety of fighters have?( while in fromation ) Do you, do really?) **
Hmmmm... Correct. I'm also correct is saying that Jimbob's fleet had nearly as much firepower. Plasma torpedoes = alien seeker modules, and we've got a lot of torpedoes...
(This message has been edited by Captain Skyblade (edited 12-28-2001).)
In this case situation Jimbob escape in an escape pod and went to a Anthena. That is the temporary fix for my flagship.
Originally posted by Macavenger: ** I've finished up my redo of the stats. RC, I admit, there's no way I can make this totally fair for you, and I really hate that. However,, luckily for you, Jimbob set up a lot of matches favorable to you. So, the final stats from the Verdica battle, as of Skyblade's last post there:
And let me add to that: RC, your enemy will always try to make a battle unfair for you. Sounds nasty, but that's the way things are even today. I was trying to make the entire battle plot unfair for my enemy from the beginning... Lure the aliens into Verdica, have Azdara appear to be the final reinforcement, then have the 101st come in from behind. All Dreden ships then finish the battle from there. Just keep in mind that your enemy will always attempt to find any and every way to take advantage of you. Your job is to make sure that doesn't happen.
Again, I apologize for my multiple posts. It won't happen again (I didn't say that after the Battle of Levo, Mac... I swear! :p)
Now, let's get on with matters in the Sentarus. Don't know where this Milky Way battle will end up...
Originally posted by Jimbob: **In this case situation Jimbob escape in an escape pod and went to a Anthena. That is the temporary fix for my flagship.
A good commander always stays with what he has! Well, if you want that promotion I've had in mind, that is...
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: **Hmmmm... Correct. I'm also correct is saying that Jimbob's fleet had nearly as much firepower.;) Plasma torpedoes = alien seeker modules, and we've got a lot of torpedoes...
Well I agree there! But, I had 3 times the ships. So my fleet would of held out longer with the same consistancy of fire. Also the formation is compact so the fire power is very intense.
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: And let me add to that: RC, your enemy will always try to make a battle unfair for you.
Say, that reminds me of another thing I wanted to mention to spl. spl, I direct your attention to the following (paraphrased, going by my memory) dialog between Wedge Antillies and one of his pilots in X-Wing 5: Wraith Squadron:
Falyn: But you cheated! Wedge: Falyn, when a TIE Fighter's Lasers penetrate your cockpit, they will superheat the blood in your veins. They will literally explode. If that happens, will you claim the TIE pilot cheated? Falyn: No, sir. Wedge: So what are you going to have to do? Falyn: I guess I'm going to have to learn to cheat, sir. Wedge: Very good.
So spl, go learn to cheat with tactics, like I do. Maybe some day you can beat me on the real battleground of war: tactics.
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: I was trying to make the entire battle plot unfair for my enemy from the beginning... Lure the aliens into Verdica, have Azdara appear to be the final reinforcement, then have the 101st come in from behind. All Dreden ships then finish the battle from there.
Yes, and I really admire the job you did of it. Even ran that one over my head.
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: A good commander always stays with what he has! Well, if you want that promotion I've had in mind, that is...:p
Hmm...
Live, get posthumous promotion. Live, get posthumous promotion. Hmm...
I think I choose to live today, if it's all the same to you.
Originally posted by rebel council: **Well I agree there! But, I had 3 times the ships. So my fleet would of held out longer with the same consistancy of fire. Also the formation is compact so the fire power is very intense.
Quite true. Had you immediately attacked the 42nd upon your arrival, you could have likely overwhelmed him in a small period of time. But since he had time to react, Jimbob was able to perform fleet tactics and bring the attack to the aliens. Also, that gave Azdara and I extra time to prepare for the counterattack and ambush.
That brings up a good point: It is very unwise to jump into a system hosting an enemy fleet, yet not post an immediate attack. The attacker usually gets the first post battle advantage, and that's the way it should be. Be careful about that, and don't do it at all if possible.