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Originally posted by ErsadtSF: **Well, in that case...
Yes, the fringe worlds are part of the confederacy, im saying a group of rebels (not the actual rebellion), scattered over the fringe worlds, might have been attacking the confeds (on the ground), because they thought it was the confeds fault that their worlds were destroyed by aliens and they were NOT receiving aid. (remember, the confeds must have used massive amount of resources to create their new ships and defeat the aliens).
Im not saying, "this is exactly what happened",(note the "might"s and "could have"s) im trying to show that there are several ways the confeds might have had more than enough reason/provocation. Since we dont know EXACTLY what happened, we cant draw a definite conclusion. argument open for stomping
**
STOMP STOMP STOMP
Let's see, your world has been blasted to pieces by some alien race. After a long war, the government that united human space has finally succeeded in blowing the invaders out of the galaxy. Since the government was not able to stop them from getting to your world in the first place at the beginning of a war it took years to win, you're going to rebel and start beating on them, right? Especially since they want to rebuild your world and use its resources? I thought not. :rolleyes: (Gosh, this feels weird, I'm actually arguing that the Confeds did something good.)
There would be no point to such minor rebellion. The real Rebellion wasn't formed until years later, because the Confeds didn't want to give up their power. Further more, David and I and others here are trying to present arguments based on texts in and about Escape Velocity. Your's comes from pure speculation, and rather unfounded speculation at that. Based on all such texts, the Confederations actions in that period were without provocation.
Try to come up with some better arguments for next time.
------------------ So go on the internet game sites and bash all the PC users!
(This message has been edited by Macavenger (edited 06-09-2001).)
Originally posted by Macavenger: **STOMP STOMP STOMP
Originally posted by ErsadtSF: Im not saying, "this is exactly what happened",(note the "might"s and "could have"s) im trying to show that there are several ways the confeds might have had more than enough reason/provocation. Since we dont know EXACTLY what happened, we cant draw a definite conclusion.
unstomp unstomp unstomp
------------------ If its not forced, ill do it!
RESTOMP RESTOMP RESTOMP
I told you, those kind of arguments are irrelevant to this discussion, because you have no way of proving them. Especially in this case, because they seem highly farfetched even if we were speculating in that way, which we aren't.
Again...
Get a clue! I know that's what your saying. What I'm saying is that kind of might, could have argument doesn't work for this discussion. We're using what has been laid out by documentation involving EV as facts, and these facts are all we're using. Your stuff is wild, and, IMHO, unsubstantiated speculation. Try arguing with EV facts, not crazy speculation.
Originally posted by Macavenger: **Get a clue! I know that's what your saying. What I'm saying is that kind of might, could have argument doesn't work for this discussion. We're using what has been laid out by documentation involving EV as facts, and these facts are all we're using. Your stuff is wild, and, IMHO, unsubstantiated speculation. Try arguing with EV facts, not crazy speculation.
All im trying to do is point out to you that there are about a million possible scenarios, like the one I offered, that could have occured. Neither the confeds or rebels can be hammered until we know EXACTLY what happened. That is my point, the scenario i offered is just an example. Sheesh. :rolleyes:
The scenario I used as an example isnt as unsubstantiated as u think. If u read and interpret it properly, it makes sense.
Originally posted by ErsadtSF: **All im trying to do is point out to you that there are about a million possible scenarios, like the one I offered, that could have occured. Neither the confeds or rebels can be hammered until we know EXACTLY what happened. That is my point, the scenario i offered is just an example. Sheesh.:rolleyes:
The scenario I used as an example isnt as unsubstantiated as u think. If u read and interpret it properly, it makes sense. **
I'm trying to point out that until now, this argument hasn't been a could have, maybe, might have been argument. If you want it to carry any weight, it needs to be backed up with facts. We have strayed into real world analogies occasionally, but those have all been facts and when arguing some highly subjective moral issues. We have not been making stuff up from the beginning of time in the undocumented EV universe. So can we just drop this point and move on to something else now? I'm getting tired of explaining that your argument makes no sense in the context of this discussion. :rolleyes:
UGE helped me and Lucas defeat the Pirate S**m on Evildrome, then after I demanded Tribute and ruled their small world (with nice outfitting section!) So I say Rebellion and UGE!
------------------ Earth will surrender to me!!
Originally posted by C Ransom: UGE helped me and Lucas defeat the Pirate Sm on Evildrome, then after I demanded Tribute and ruled their small world (with nice outfitting section!) So I say Rebellion and UGE!
It's always nice to see that the new members are loyal Rebels...
Welcome to the boards!
President of the Corsair Development Team (url="http://"http://artworks.tmgmedia.net")Corsair Homepage(/url) | (url="http://"http://pub57.ezboard.com/bcorsairdevelopers")Corsair Web Board(/url) | (url="http://"http://pub101.ezboard.com/bstarbasedelta")Starbase Delta(/url)
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: It's always nice to see that the new members are loyal Rebels...:)
Loyal rebels? Isn't that an oxymoron?
------------------ David Arthur (url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")Talon Plugin for Classic EV(/url)
Originally posted by David Arthur: **Loyal rebels? Isn't that an oxymoron?
Now, now David...Didn't you learn your facts in school? Confederation fans are what are sometimes know as Successfully Corrupted Oxymoron Ugly Rediculous Goofy Emperors...Too put in short, that spells "SCOURGE."
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: **Now, now David...Didn't you learn your facts in school? Confederation fans are what are sometimes know as Successfully Corrupted Oxymoron Ugly Rediculous Goofy Emperors...Too put in short, that spells "SCOURGE.";)
The only problem with that is the oxymoron doesn't make sense there... :frown: Here, I think I can help...
Successfully Corrupted Ogliarchy of Ugly Rediculously Goofy Emperors. SCOURGE. That's better.
Originally posted by Macavenger: **
There you go. I somehow picture the Confederation when I read that...
Originally posted by Macavenger: Successfully Corrupted Ogliarchy (sic) of Ugly Rediculously (sic) Goofy Emperors.
In order to show you that you can't get away with insults in a serious topic, I'm going to respond to your claims.
Successfully Corrupted: Nobody has yet shown any evidence of corruption in the Confederation. I know that as soon as you read that, you prepared to quote the intro text, but remember, it is not a reliable document. For example, it states that the aliens are extinct, which is clearly not the case. It serves as a reasonable overview of EV history, but no more.
Oligarchy: Even the rebellion admits that the Confederation is a representative democracy, they just don't feel that the representation is evenly distributed.
Ugly Ridiculously Goofy: Okay. There's no way I can get any real meaning from that.
Emperors: See what I said about Oligarchy.
Originally posted by David Arthur: **In order to show you that you can't get away with insults in a serious topic, I'm going to respond to your claims.
Do you really support the Confederation this much, or is this all in vain? I certainly hope so...You don't know the power of the light side of the force...
Skyblade and I were mostly kidding here, of course... err, were we?
Anyway, I can refute one of those points David - I do consider the intro a reliable text. To the best knowledge of humanity at that time, the aliens were extinct. And we've been basing a lot of this on historical overviews and such. I think that part at least is perfectly valid.
Not that corruption is that large a stain, relative to other governments at least, we've got more than our share in the US, and I imagine most other places have some too.
Originally posted by Macavenger: **Skyblade and I were mostly kidding here, of course... err, were we?;)
Uh, I think so...Were you?
Originally posted by Macavenger: I do consider the intro a reliable text.
My point is that it's not being told by an omniscient narrator, but rather a narrator whose knowledge is on the level of someone living in the EV galaxy, and therefore we have to ask where in the EV galaxy they're living, and how that affects what they say.
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: Do you really support the Confederation this much, or is this all in vain?
Obviously, since the governments we're arguing about don't exist, none of what we're saying has any real meaning, but if EV was real, I certainly wouldn't want to live under the Rebel government. (Actually, I'd probably want to live on one of the independent planets, but that's beside the point.)
Originially posted by Captain Skyblade: You don't know the power of the light side of the force...
Are you sure we're both talking about the same rebellion?
Originally posted by David Arthur: **Are you sure we're both talking about the same rebellion?
LOL! Well, both Rebellions have very similar reasons for conducting a war, so it works both ways.
And I agree. If the Rebel / Confederation War was was real, I probably would live on an independent planet, though I would gladly aid the Rebellion if necissary...
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: **LOL! Well, both Rebellions have very similar reasons for conducting a war, so it works both ways.;)
And I agree. If the Rebel / Confederation War was was real, I probably would live on an independent planet, though I would gladly aid the Rebellion if necissary... **
I hate to admit it, but I think the Rebels in Star Wars have better justification than the Rebels here. Not that are Rebels aren't justified, I just think in Star Wars they have been much more oppressed, and the Empire in Star Wars really is a SCOURGE.
Also, If this were real, I would live on Rupert, because they share my religion.