Rebel Memo

Captain Carnotaur

Memo on: Why the Rebellion is Better than the Confederation

Section 1: The Cause Factor

Answer to me truthfully, whether or not slavery is bad. The answer most likely is: No. Slavery and/or forced labor is BAD. Simple. There doesn't need to be any debate about this.

Now take for example the Confederation. There reason for fighting the Rebellion: Simple. Because the Rebels revolted because they were tired about being made to do forced labor, and forced labor is BAD! Only really undeveloped countries do stuff like that! And I DON'T think that forced labor would be considered good in the EV universe.

The Confederation wants to promote forced labor, and the Rebellion wants to destroy forced labor! It is easy to see which is more moral. No debate. The cause of the Rebellion is MUCH better than the cause of the Confederation.

Not only this, but the Confederation denied the outer colonists representation in the senate. The United States is built upon the principle of letting everyone have representation in the government. It is the peoples government. I think that these truths would not being abandoned in the EV universe. And so now the Confederation not only wants to promote forced labor, but also deprive people of their liberty.

This also gives us a certain point to consider: Who would want to side with forced labor promoting people who give have no consideration oncesoever of another persons liberty? I believe that the Rebellion would be able to convince independent planets, such as Levo, Yemuro, and such, to join them because of their cause. If I was the leader of any independent planet, I wouldn't want to side with a bunch
of forced labor promoting guys!

This cause can also spur on moral. The quest for liberty by American revolutionists during the Revolutionary War spurred them on even during the most difficult circumstances. For the Rebels, the quest for freedom from oppression would definitely spur them on to victory!

Section 2: The Destroyer Factor

Now let us look at the main ship of the Rebel fleet: The Rebel destroyer. Though not as shielded as the Confed frigate, the Rebel destroyer beats the frigate 6 out of 8 times. The Confed frigate just cannot turn fast enough to fire its torpedoes and missiles at the Rebel destroyer, while the destroyer can easily swing around and continue to pour torpedoes into its opponent. Not only that, but the Rebel destroyer can also carry one more turret than the Confed Frigate, giving it a better outfit advantage.

Also, the destroyer is smaller and cheaper than the Confed frigate, making it easier to build and maintain, while still being superior to the Confed frigate. It is also faster, more maneuverable, and has a better acceleration rate than its frigate opponent. Because it is small and cheap, but still an excellent fighting machine, these vessels can be produced on mass. The Rebellion can easily build many more of these ships than the Confeds with their Frigates. The Rebellion can easily outnumber there foe.

Section 3: The Strategic Factor

Now let us look at the strategic positions of both the Rebellion and Confederation. First, lets look at the Regulus system. The Confeds "could" use this system as a jump off point for a campaign against the Rebels in the Sirgil system. Once they beat the Rebels there, they could move on and colonize the systems that lie beyond. However, right now the Rebels own Sirgil, so they could just as easily colonize those planets. But why haven't they? Some Confed supporters might call it stupidity. Others might say that the Rebels don't have enough ships or supplies. But actually, Sirgil is one of the larger Rebel strongholds, and so they could easily go and set up bases on those planets. But they haven't because those planets have NO strategic value. They probably have no minerals, no ores, and they would be too difficult to maintain with the Rebels constantly raiding Sirgil and the Confeds supply lines, which are highly exposed. Obviously Sirgil is not an option.

Now lets look at Antares. This could also be a staging point for an assault. However, where would they attack? They could attack Zigra and Guiron, but those are too far away and poses no strategic value. Then they could attack Tiber, and then move their way towards their base at Ruby. However, that area is a major Rebel stronghold. It would be too costly for the Confederation. And the trip to Tiber and that sector is harassed by Rebel and Pirate vessels, making it difficult to maintain supply lines. And, the Rebels would not give it up easily. At the Thanos system the Rebels have a fuel depot, which they can not afford to loose. Even if the Confeds did win the sector, they would be raided by Rebel vessels, and then would be attacked in an all out retaliatory attack. The Rebels would not give up Thanos without a huge fight.

Thirdly, let us look at Capella. A Confed campaign there could attack Gymkata and Apollo, which are far away, and the path is barred by swarming Pirates and the independent Levo system. They could also attack Arrakis and then Nemesis, a place highly valued by the Rebellion, who, like with Thanos, would not give it up without a major conflict.

Now, after ruling out three other planets, lets look at the Diphidia and Sirius systems. These systems are far too within Confed space to be of any use. Sirius is slightly blocked by Altair, and Diphidia is blocked by the independent system of Zaxted and they could only attack two non-important systems.

Now lets look at Polaris. It is in a good spot, except for the fact that the independent Propus system bars the way to the major Rebel systems. Not only that, but it is located too close to the Rebels main shipyard at Clotho Prime, which is easily defendable and easy to make a counter-attack from. The only other way is to go through Matar and though Curzon and Risa, systems swarming with Pirates. The Confeds could go through Risa and on to Zaphod, but it could just be launched from Matar, and not Polaris. The Confeds could go around those systems, and attack Atropos. But the way is blocked by Propus and Pirate infested Darven. Obviously Polaris is NOT available.

However, there is also Matar. Matar can attack Zaphod, BUT the offensive must go through the Risa system (lots of Pirates and Rebels) or the Yemuro system (independent and not liking to Confed offensives going through their space. Even if they did go through Risa or Yemuro, Zaphod is near to the Alkaid system, which is a major Rebel stronghold and highly valued by the Rebels, who would not let the Zaphod system, Alkaids only guard, fall into Confed hands. Besides it is too close to Palshife to be sacrificed.

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~Captain Skyblade

Visit my EVO website! (url="http://"http://artworks.tmgmedia.net")http://artworks.tmgmedia.net(/url)

idiotSavant

Thank you for taking the time to write this brilliant essay. If this doesn't convince Confed supporters to change sides, nothing will!I'm glad to see a true hearted rebel out there!By the way,just how long did it take you to write the essay?

idiotSavant

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In three words I can sum up all I've learned about life;it goes on
-Robert Frost

magicianeer

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur:
**Memo on: Why the Rebellion is Better than the Confederation

Section 1: The Cause Factor
<snip>**

I concede the cause...

Quote

**
Section 2: The Destroyer Factor

<snip>
The Rebellion can easily build many more of these ships than the Confeds with their Frigates. The Rebellion can easily outnumber there foe.
**

The ability to mass produce something depends more on your industrial base than on simplicity and cost. The Confed have Earth, Mars, Landfall, (which together have more people than the entire rebel-controlled space) and a vast ship factory on Luna. None of this was damaged in the Great War, indeed, it was built up to fight the great war. These resources were sufficient to defeat the Aliens and save the devastated outer colonies. They will be more than enough to contain the rebellion. Even if the rebels somehow outproduced the Terran Naval Yards, they could not produce more crew than the confeds.

Noteworthy is that since the great war, nobody has produced a better ship than the confed cruiser. The rebel cruiser is a good attempt but it is not there yet.

The rebels' only chance for "victory" is to make continued Confed domination expensive and hazardous enough that they leave the rebels alone. They might also encourage reformist elements in the Confed government, if there were any. Outright defeat of the Confederation is inconceivable without major inside help. The rebels appear to have achieved most of their victory.

Quote

**
(b)Section 3: The Strategic Factor**
<snip>

cable_guy

And how would you set up a bloackade between north and south right the way from east to west? All the rebels would have to do is to scrape together 3, maybe 4 cruisers and then find out where you are at your weakest. The resistance at this point could then be destroyed.
Plus, trying to separate north and south rebels would be dangerous and costly. It would easily be possible to set up a counter attack on the same system from both sides (north and south) and the rebels will win.
As for ships, the frigate forms "the backbone of the confederate fleet". That's quoted from EV you know. So, if the frigate is beaten 6 out of 8 (from a fair start, I'd say more like 7 from 10), doesn't that mean that the fleet has a broken back? Since the frigates are the main part of the fleet, not the cruisers, it's these battles that really matter.
Also, the Rebels have a major tactical advantage in that Sirgil can serve as a second HQ in the unlikely event that Palshife should come under fire. Plus, the major outfitting stellar is Akio, well out of the way of attack. Earth, Luna, mars and Stardock Alpha are all highly exposed. 1)They are all in the same system, and 2) only 2 jumps from safety, and one jump is through the weak New Sahara, where little resistance would be encountered. The Rebels would be able to leave New Sahara ruined, then jump into Sol to mount an attack. Here's the point; It would be easy to take over New Sahara by force, which is one jump from confed HQ. Rebel forces from the North could overrun Capella, leaving a channel straight to Sol, whereas southern rebels would get there easily too, needing only to come through New France, a holiday resort. Forces from Sirgil might as well walk there,it's so close. And so a massive fleet could assemble right next to Sol, easily laying waste to all the planets with an air-to-ground chemical weapon. Hence warship and outfit production stops, and the confederation is crippled irreparably. True, big losses would be sustained by the rebels, but I believe that if the fleet was about 5 cruisers and 20 destroyers, they would be able to overrun New Sahara with 0 losses, same for Capella. The fleet could then be built up, and congratulations, the rebels win.
Oh, and if I commanded the rebel fleet when your confed fleet blockaded, I'd destroy you. Even if it just came down to cruisers 1 on 1, it would still be possible to win, but the rebels often lose these battles in the game because they utilise tactics where all the fed cruiser's strong points come into play. They just go straight at each other, allowing the feds to fire off the neutron cannons. If I were to be in a cruiser, I'd utilise my advantages; speed and manoeverability. With the manoeverability upgrades to both cruisers, the fed still can't lose missiles and torpedoes. The Rebel Cruiser can. So all I have to do is destroy all the patrol ships (leave it to the mantas), and then circle the cruiser, dodging all the torpedoes it can throw at me, and missiles if it wants. Then I launch all of my missiles from a distance, until I'm empty. Then, I come up behind the cruiser, letting loose with proton turrets and my heavy rockets, staying behind the cruiser all the time. Victory is almost assured.

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Captain Carnotaur

Quote

Originally posted by cable_guy:
And how would you set up a bloackade between north and south right the way from east to west? All the rebels would have to do is to scrape together 3, maybe 4 cruisers and then find out where you are at your weakest. The resistance at this point could then be destroyed.

Or even just get together 4 or 5 destroyers and go after the Confed Frigates; the Confeds main ship and the ship that you'll see the most. Good point cable_guy.

Quote

Originally posted by cable_guy:
Plus, trying to separate north and south rebels would be dangerous and costly. It would easily be possible to set up a counter attack on the same system from both sides (north and south) and the rebels will win.

Good point again, the Rebels may seem stretched, but they really ain't stretched at all, the Confeds are.

Quote

Originally posted by cable_guy:
As for ships, the frigate forms "the backbone of the confederate fleet". That's quoted from EV you know. So, if the frigate is beaten 6 out of 8 (from a fair start, I'd say more like 7 from 10), doesn't that mean that the fleet has a broken back? Since the frigates are the main part of the fleet, not the cruisers, it's these battles that really matter.

Finally someone sees my exact point! Not only does the Rebel Destroyer always beat the Confed frigate unless help is around, the Rebels can produce A LOT more of them than the Confeds can. Next thing you know, you got 5 or 6 destroyers going up against a Confed Cruiser, then swiping on to dominate Capella.

Quote

Originally posted by cable_guy:
Also, the Rebels have a major tactical advantage in that Sirgil can serve as a second HQ in the unlikely event that Palshife should come under fire. Plus, the major outfitting stellar is Akio, well out of the way of attack. Earth, Luna, mars and Stardock Alpha are all highly exposed. 1)They are all in the same system, and 2) only 2 jumps from safety, and one jump is through the weak New Sahara, where little resistance would be encountered. The Rebels would be able to leave New Sahara ruined, then jump into Sol to mount an attack. Here's the point; It would be easy to take over New Sahara by force, which is one jump from confed HQ. Rebel forces from the North could overrun Capella, leaving a channel straight to Sol, whereas southern rebels would get there easily too, needing only to come through New France, a holiday resort. Forces from Sirgil might as well walk there,it's so close. And so a massive fleet could assemble right next to Sol, easily laying waste to all the planets with an air-to-ground chemical weapon. Hence warship and outfit production stops, and the confederation is crippled irreparably. True, big losses would be sustained by the rebels, but I believe that if the fleet was about 5 cruisers and 20 destroyers, they would be able to overrun New Sahara with 0 losses, same for Capella. The fleet could then be built up, and congratulations, the rebels win.

Mind if I add some of your analysis's to my memo? They contain a lot of stuff I never thought about before.

BTW, I agree, Sirgil is a major port and could easily serve as a secondary HQ for the Rebels.

Quote

Originally posted by cable_guy:
**Oh, and if I commanded the rebel fleet when your confed fleet blockaded, I'd destroy you. Even if it just came down to cruisers 1 on 1, it would still be possible to win, but the rebels often lose these battles in the game because they utilise tactics where all the fed cruiser's strong points come into play. They just go straight at each other, allowing the feds to fire off the neutron cannons. If I were to be in a cruiser, I'd utilise my advantages; speed and manoeverability. With the manoeverability upgrades to both cruisers, the fed still can't lose missiles and torpedoes. The Rebel Cruiser can. So all I have to do is destroy all the patrol ships (leave it to the mantas), and then circle the cruiser, dodging all the torpedoes it can throw at me, and missiles if it wants. Then I launch all of my missiles from a distance, until I'm empty. Then, I come up behind the cruiser, letting loose with proton turrets and my heavy rockets, staying behind the cruiser all the time. Victory is almost assured.
**

Quite right, cable_guy.

Quote

Originally posted by Captain Skyblade:
**Way to go, Carno! Maybe your post will help grab more people toward the Rebellion cause.;) Long live the Rebellion!

**

Thanks, and that is exactly what I intended it to do; show everyone that the Rebels will ultimately win over the greedy and corrupt Confederation.

Quote

Originally posted by idiotSavant:
**Thank you for taking the time to write this brilliant essay. If this doesn't convince Confed supporters to change sides, nothing will!I'm glad to see a true hearted rebel out there!By the way,just how long did it take you to write the essay?

idiotSavant
**

A LOOOONG time. Actually, I wrote it a while ago but never used it until now. BTW, thanks for the compliment. I never really did try to right a memo or essay or whatever before. BTW again, what's the difference between a memo and an essay?

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
The ability to mass produce something depends more on your industrial base than on simplicity and cost. The Confed have Earth, Mars, Landfall, (which together have more people than the entire rebel-controlled space) and a vast ship factory on Luna. None of this was damaged in the Great War, indeed, it was built up to fight the great war. These resources were sufficient to defeat the Aliens and save the devastated outer colonies. They will be more than enough to contain the rebellion. Even if the rebels somehow outproduced the Terran Naval Yards, they could not produce more crew than the confeds.

Are you kidding? Come on, you are forgetting something. Before, the Confeds had a lot more planets during the great war. After it, a lot of planets left the Confederation and/or joined the Rebellion.

For one thing, the Rebel destroyer is 90 tons smaller than the Confed Frigate, one unit faster turning than the Confed Frigate, 185 units faster acceleration than the Confed Frigate, 150 units faster speed than the Confed Frigate, one more extra turret space than the Confed Frigate, one extra jump of fuel than the Confed frigate, 28 feet (or was it meters) shorter than the Confed frigate, 102 crew members less than the Confed Frigate, two more heavy rockets than the Confed frigate, 2.2. million credits cheaper than the Confed Frigate, 6 more torpedoes than the Confed Frigate, and even though it's much smaller and a tad weaker...

...It beats the Confed Frigate every single time. The Rebels can easily produce tons of Rebel destroyers while the Confeds struggle to produce just two or three of their frigates. The Law of Attrition while prevail siding with the Rebels.

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
Noteworthy is that since the great war, nobody has produced a better ship than the confed cruiser. The rebel cruiser is a good attempt but it is not there yet.

You are wrong; the Rebel Cruiser is much better than the Confed Cruiser.

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
The rebels' only chance for "victory" is to make continued Confed domination expensive and hazardous enough that they leave the rebels alone. They might also encourage reformist elements in the Confed government, if there were any. Outright defeat of the Confederation is inconceivable without major inside help. The rebels appear to have achieved most of their victory.

They have already done that, and they have already began to slowly push the Confeds back with their superior fighters, destroyers, and cruisers.

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
Bull$#!+

That depends. You can either call it that, and get low karma for flaming and swearing, or say in a peaceful way that I may have made some mistakes. Just kidding, but you really shouldn't use such bad language.

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
In the east side of the map, Rebel space is divided by capella. No ship can travel from north to south without passing through some confed controlled planet. The confeds can attack towards spica or sirgil at will, while blocking or delaying reinforcements from the other half of rebel space. The confed need only blokade Capella and Rigel to cut the rebels in half.

So you are saying that one or two frigates, a few gunboats, a couple of patrol ships, and 20 Luxury Liners and Executive Transports can stop a Rebel battlefleet of Cruisers, Destroyers, and Mantas? No blockade as I see it, Capella was always a slaughtering ground for the Rebels.

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
The spica/armstrong area is especially plagued with pirates which suggests that rebel government (assuming that they have a unified government) is not very effective at maintaining law and order or is consumed with preventing confed strikes.

No, it means they can use the Pirates to their advantage to scare off the Confeds strikes, which now have to deal with Rebels and Confeds. Besides, the Pirates almost like the Rebels. In any battle, the Rebels and Pirates would gang up on the Confeds first, then try to destroy each other (in which the Rebels woud win).

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
The rebels are stronger in the western part of the map, where they can at least get around unimpeded. Nonetheless, the confeds are able to operate valuable research facilities in this area (astrodyne, ruby). Judging from the rebel recover-weapons-cache mission, ruby was a rebel outpost before the confeds moved in. Again, piracy is rampant in rebel space at atropos, darven, alcyon.

Darven ain't Rebel, Alcyon is uninhabited, and Atrops don't have that big a problem with Pirates. And did you realize that with all those Confed Frigates, the Confeds weren't able to stop a mercenary pilot from breaking past the patrols and landing on the uninhabited planet next to Ruby, where it snatched a weapons cache while the Confeds were watching, and weren't able to stop him? Confed security, and Confed frigates, stink.

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
Colonies do not need a strategic reason to exist (hikeeba, lauralee, scorpio). I assume the planets south of sirgil are not colonized because no one has gotten around to it at the time the game takes place.

Yes, but the Rebels will. It's an obvious winner for them. The Confeds can't stop them, neither can the Pirates. It's all open to the Rebellion.

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
The existance of independent planets suggests that the domination/slavery/corruption problem is not as serious as you suggest. The confed does not have the will to exert dominion over the likes of Diphidia, though 4 cruisers would be sufficient to do so. The confeds are not above using their power to abuse the independent planets, yet these planets have not been so hard-pressed as to join the rebellion.

Hey, who says the Galactic Civil war has been going on for a long time? Just wait till my new plug-in "Long Live the Rebellion!" comes out, you'll see.

Quote

Originally posted by magicianeer:
If I commanded the confed fleet and took the rebels seriously, I would attack west, capture the independent planets Zaxted, and Pegasus and completely divide the rebels into a northern group and a southern group. I would set periodic short term blockades against rebel shipping from the north while conquering planets in the south. If the rebels move substantial forces south while the blockade is not in place, then I will blockade the south and attack north. Once the southern rebels were cowed, I would send the entire fleet against the northern rebels.

Unfortunately, you ain't the Confeds. They are right now being commanded by really dumb captains who don't realize that the Rebels are winning and will eventually destroy them. And hey, maybe the Rebels will find some alien technology and wipe of the Confeds with it!

**Long Live the Rebellion!

-Captain Carnotaur**

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To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).

cable_guy

yeah, add all you want to your memo. Always up for helping the rebel's cause!

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Captain Skyblade

Hey Carnotaur, I was wandering if you minded me posted your Rebel memo on my website? I plan on making an Escape Velocity page on my site, and I thought your memo would be perfect.

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~Captain Skyblade

Visit my EVO website! (url="http://"http://artworks.tmgmedia.net")http://artworks.tmgmedia.net(/url)

Esponer

I always support the Rebels, but anyway.......

The Confeds have a larger military force. Forgetting cost, the Confeds could
take any Rebel stronghold they wanted with their army and still not have to
worry much about their planets at home. Those Independant systems mainly sway
to the Confeds, as Confeds move freely about them. They would delay the Rebels,
but allow Confeds through easily.

A major Confederation attack, using tactics suited to Confeds, instead of
the standard computer AI, could take Clotho and Palshife. The Confeds would be
weakened, but not all that much. Remember, the Confed Cruiser's torpedoes are
very numerous, making it good for long range attacks.

Granted, Rebel ships are better, but you are ignoring some very simple factors.

There are more Confeds.
Confeds hold sway over independant.
Pirates would flee if they saw an army, under no circumstances would they attack
it. They wouldn't even dare the supply trains - a couple of fighters could harry
them for eternity, and strange as it sounds, I'm certain the pirates would be too
scared. They would want the battle to be equal, so that both sides would kill each
other, and thus more loot.
Although the Rebels could try relocating a lost capital, they would lose most
of their hierachy. It would take time to repair.

Granted, the systems Alkaid and Sirgil would counter attack, as would southern
Rebel land. But think about it - the Confeds have enough forces to hold them off
until the others get back.

Also, a Confed blockade, with ships armed with torpedoes and more torpedoes ready
to be equipped (torpedoes are cheap, remember) would be effective against Rebel
ships. Confeds are the best with torpedoes, and would destroy 5 Rebel cruisers
within seconds if the Confeds had, say, 15 cruisers (which under the circumstances,
doing all the maths and such, would work).

Any larger forces would meet a relief squadron of gunboats that would delay them
while more artillery like Confed cruisers came in a take fire.

Finally, yes, I support the Rebels, but someone needed to help the Confeds.

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Captain Carnotaur

Quote

Originally posted by Esponer:
**I always support the Rebels, but anyway.......

The Confeds have a larger military force. Forgetting cost, the Confeds could
take any Rebel stronghold they wanted with their army and still not have to
worry much about their planets at home. Those Independant systems mainly sway
to the Confeds, as Confeds move freely about them. They would delay the Rebels,
but allow Confeds through easily.**

You sure? If you were an independent, who would you side with? A government fighting for its freedom in the face of oppression? Or a government who supports slavery and a tyrannical government? I think the answer is obvious.

Quote

Originally posted by Esponer:
A major Confederation attack, using tactics suited to Confeds, instead of
the standard computer AI, could take Clotho and Palshife. The Confeds would be
weakened, but not all that much. Remember, the Confed Cruiser's torpedoes are
very numerous, making it good for long range attacks.

We aren't talking about experienced pilots, we're talking about normal AIs. In order to take Clotho and Palshife, the Confeds would have to send a MASSIVE fleet which even then may not win, and in the meantime the Confeds get slaughtered in the Core words because they lack the adequat forces because all the big ships left.

Quote

Originally posted by Esponer:
**Granted, Rebel ships are better, but you are ignoring some very simple factors.

There are more Confeds.**

Where did you get this information? There is obviously more Rebels than Confeds, and I mean a LOT more. Rebel ships are cheaper, smaller, easier to build, but just as good if not better thant he Confeds.

Quote

Originally posted by Esponer:
Confeds hold sway over independant.
Pirates would flee if they saw an army, under no circumstances would they attack
it. They wouldn't even dare the supply trains - a couple of fighters could harry
them for eternity, and strange as it sounds, I'm certain the pirates would be too
scared. They would want the battle to be equal, so that both sides would kill each
other, and thus more loot.
Although the Rebels could try relocating a lost capital, they would lose most
of their hierachy. It would take time to repair.

Then how come Pirate AI ships always attack Confed and Rebel ships every time they see them?

Quote

Originally posted by Esponer:
Granted, the systems Alkaid and Sirgil would counter attack, as would southern
Rebel land. But think about it - the Confeds have enough forces to hold them off
until the others get back.

Actually, as I see it, the Confeds have a lot of trouble keeping the Rebels contained. The Rebels would easily wipe them out.

Quote

Originally posted by Esponer:
Also, a Confed blockade, with ships armed with torpedoes and more torpedoes ready
to be equipped (torpedoes are cheap, remember) would be effective against Rebel
ships. Confeds are the best with torpedoes, and would destroy 5 Rebel cruisers
within seconds if the Confeds had, say, 15 cruisers (which under the circumstances,
doing all the maths and such, would work).

Then the Rebels could easily stick on a bunch of extra torpedoes for their ships. Especially for the Rebel destroyer, which can carry more torpedoes than the Frigate.

------------------
To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
--------------
Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).

Esponer

It's no good thinking on an AI scale.

On an AI system, they wouldn't get anywhere at all.

You have to think of it as a real life scenario, otherwise there's no
point talking about it.

Forget AI, think about real life. After all, that's where the Confeds and
the Rebels really fight - in the plot it doesn't exactly say "an alien
ship appeared and the Confeds sent out no reinforcements except the normal
patrol units", it says that they sent all of their forces.

And about the numbers, try a count of the average numbers of ships in each
system, and the defence fleet. The Confeds lead by a long way. Over time,
the Rebels would get the advantage, but at the time when the game's based
I'd say the Confeds have at least twice as many troops.

Of course, you can disagree with all this if you believe that it would be in
real AI - which in my opinion is a bad way of thinking of it.

Finally, I have to end every post with this - I support the Rebels, I believe
the Rebels would win, but I'm just continuing for the sake of an argument.

You're a hard man to argue with, Carnotaur.

Shall we sign a peace treaty now? Argument over? Rebels win?

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Draw the line with fire,
Cross it with ice,
Banish the fiery sun,
And bring on the silent moon.

Esponer

After all, you sway between AI and real to suit your argument.

The blockade, in "game" terms, would only have to cover a few keypoints, where
hundreds of ships could be placed, whereas you think of it as an enormous
stretch of land.

And also, the independant sway to the Confeds because you'll notice in Propus
especially, they allow Confeds free reign but keep Rebels out. You could argue
that the Rebels don't "want" to go there, and I can't sufficiently retaliate,
but my view is that the independant systems are too scared to side with the
Rebellion.

PS: I support the Rebels.

------------------
Draw the line with fire,
Cross it with ice,
Banish the fiery sun,
And bring on the silent moon.

Esponer

Yes, I know I said argument over, but I just had to finish answering
your remarks.

------------------
Draw the line with fire,
Cross it with ice,
Banish the fiery sun,
And bring on the silent moon.

Captain Carnotaur

Problem 1: You can have over 1,000,000 troops and soldiers with tanks and planes, but its nadda when dozens upon dozens of proton bolts, missiles, heavy rockets, and torpedoes come raining down on them. Never underestimate a Rebel battlegroup.

Problem 2: The Confeds were obviously hurt badly by the alien war, in which probably over half their fleet was destroyed. So, they resorted to force, hard labor, and slavery to make them a large, and tyrannical, government. However, the Rebels fought back. So, the Confeds may not have as many ships as everyone thinks they have.

Problem 3: Okay, forget the AI thing. But then...

...The Confeds'll loose within 3 days. Confed ships may be really good when piloted by the pilot, but Rebel ships are MUCH better and MUCH deadlier. Rebel ships are faster, more capable, and overral better for the pilot than the slow, lumbering, and awkward Confed ships. I mean, look at the stats, the Rebel destroyer is twice as fast as the Confed Frigate! To top that, the Rebel CRUISER is faster than the Confed Frigate!

Here are the total stats:

Manta
Speed: 425
Acceleration: 625
Maneuverability: 6

Rebel Destroyer
Speed: 300
Acceleration: 560
Maneuverability: 3

Rebel Cruiser
Speed: 200
Acceleration: 280
Maneuverability: 2

Confed Patrol Ship
Speed: 350
Acceleration: 435
Maneuverability: 4

Confed Gunboat
Speed: 250
Acceleration: 435
Maneuverability: 3

Confed Frigate
Speed: 150
Acceleration: 375
Maneuverability: 2

Confed Cruiser
Speed: 150
Acceleration: 190
Maneuverability: 1

Corvette
Speed: 300
Acceleration: 405
Maneuverability: 3

And part of the Corvette's description is:

Quote

...its maneuverability and acceleration make it perform like a heavy fighter...

And since the Rebel Destroyer is actually FASTER than the Corvette (and is also faster than the Confed Gunboat and almost as fast as the Patrol ship), that description easily applies to the destroyer, which can easily beat the Confed Frigate which is slower than both the Rebel Cruiser and Rebel Destroyer and is also not faster than the Confed Cruiser. It is obvious, without a doubt, the Rebels have MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH better than the Confed ships in terms of both speed/maneuverability/acceleration, weaponry, expandability, and usefullness.

Okay now, argument over. Rebels win.

Long live the Rebellion!

-Captain Carnotaur

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To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
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Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it.
Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).

Esponer

Lol.

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Draw the line with fire,
Cross it with ice,
Banish the fiery sun,
And bring on the silent moon.

Loki

Pure Rebel propoganda!

A: No evidence of slavery. The Rebels are just sociopaths who wanted a handout.

B: Rebels are communists. They use the color Red, as does China, and the former Soviet Union.

Rebels commit murder and piracy at every available opportunity. Notice how a pirate vessel will attack a Confederation ship over a Rebel ship, given the choice.

The Confederation could easily strike any Rebel held system with minimal assets, and win. The reasons they haven't are quite simple. The Confederation is in a defensive posture, not an offensive one. They are obviously seeking a diplomatic resolution, otherwise they wouldn't be sending government officials to independent worlds in Executive Transports with minimal escorts. Those escorts are meant to defend against random pirate attacks, not a dedicated Rebel attack, or a hired assassin.

E: If the Confederation chose to end the Rebellion, they could. The Rebel occupied worlds are too spread out to support each other, their systems are too spread out to send reinforcements in a timely manner. Systems of particular vulnerability: Ursa, Agena, Adhara, Sirgil, Spica, Guiron, Zigra and Apollo. The Conderation's being nice

F: The Rebellion's chain of command is obviously far too disorganized to launch any serious attack. An example of this is Ruby, a valuable asset of the Confederation, and right next door are four Rebel occupied systems. The only logical conclusion is that they don't have the ability to take Ruby.

Face it, the Rebels are little more than communists, willing to go to any means, including the murder of civillians, to achieve their goals.

Rebel Memo

------------------ ~Captain Skyblade

------------------ ~Captain Skyblade

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~Captain Skyblade

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~Captain Skyblade