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I think i have to point out that the Gaiatori WERE very powerful but were conquered by the cantharians... Would any Empire let a slave race get very powerful? Also they are in the middle of a Civil War and that will weaken any civilization. Has anyone thought about using the shiips from the Obish VS. Eljeet Plug?
------------------ "Learn about art captian, when you understand a species' art you understand that species"
The Gaitori were defeated by the Salrillians, the Cantharans, and the Ishiman, all working together and supporting the Obish. The Gaitori are still under the Cantharan's thumb, although they are still extremely powerful. The Cantharans are just more powerful. And the ships from the Obish vs. Elejeetian plug don't count, as they are from a plug. We're only using evidence gathered from the main scenario and from Nathan Lamont.
------------------ "Oi, oi, oi, me got a hurt n here Oi, oi, oi, me smell a ting is near Me gonna bosh and me gonna nosh An da hurt'll dissapear"
I must point out it wasn't a civil war. Here's how it goes:
-Cantharan Order/Star League formed -Gaitor and Obain go to war over some trivial border dispute -Obish fleets at the time were just to impress pompous generals and were complete rubbish in battle -Gaitor is winning -Salril predicts that if Gaitor wins, it will become an unstoppable power that could overthrow the Star League -Salril donates Stealth Technology, and convinces Ishima to do likewise -Ishima, Obain's ally, donates protopulse and photokinetic (mebe repulsor) weapons tech -Ishima and Salril both let Obain do the fighting -Obain gains upper hand and eventually beats off Gaitor completely
and...
-Gaitor is severely weakened -(Boodan war turns Cantharan Order into a military state) -(Generals put into power during the Boodan War refuse to give up their power) -The Cantharan Crusades begin -Ishima and Elejee break their military ties to Cantharis, warn Earth -Gaitor Subjugated -Apollo Launched -Earth Subjugated
------------------ If our military is so much better than theirs, then why don't we ever use it?
Quote
Originally posted by Slug: **Obain only won the Gaitor/Obain war through the extensive use of borrowed technology. The cloaks are Salrilian and the Weapons (except the repulsor) are Ishiman. **
It doesn't matter where technology comes from. You can't make people give back an idea, and so the Obish would CONTINUE to have better technology. So if they won before, it stands to reason they could win again (assuming no interferance). As for the battleship, I'd say the corepulses were origional, but the cmissles were add-ons. There's no reason to say it sucked, it was probably constructed after the technology loans when the Obish had corepulses.
------------------ William Darkk, head of the Darkklight Entrepenurial Federation Your cargo or your life!!!
laughs to himself
You and Slug might need to be separated for a time...
(This message has been edited by Mag Steelglass (edited 12-28-2000).)
Originally posted by Fleet Admiral Darkk: It doesn't matter where technology comes from. You can't make people give back an idea, and so the Obish would CONTINUE to have better technology.
After the Gaitori were placed under the boot of the Cantharan Order, they were allowed to CONTINUE to have better technology...... It quickly became obsolete. See my point?
So if they won before, it stands to reason they could win again (assuming no interferance).(/b
Yeah, seeing as neither side has made any technological advances since then, but the Gaitori are massive because they are part of the Cantharan Order. They are a lot larger and this time they'd be prepared.
(b)As for the battleship, I'd say the corepulses were origional, but the cmissles were add-ons. There's no reason to say it sucked, it was probably constructed after the technology loans when the Obish had corepulses.
No, Slug, you have not enlightened me. You have, however, exasperated me.
I'll address you points 1 by 1.
Slug: The tech becomes obsolete. Me: Yah, but they're both stuck, and the Obish are stuck further ahead. Watch what happens when their respective cruisers fight, or try taking down a Gaitori carrier with an Obish Cruiser. It's not just possible, it's almost easy. Those things are like HVCs, yet are CLASSED AS CRUISERS. They (increadably vulger synonym for "outclass thoroughly") Gaitori ships.
Slug: The Obish battleship was started at the beginning of the war. Me: Now you're being foolish. If it was at the beginning of the war, when (you claim) the Gaitori have crap fleets, then they probably couldn't have occupied the system. Furthermore, you overlooked something. It's entirely possible that the Obish blitzkrieged the Gaitori, and signed a peace treaty before they had time to finish their battleship. The disparity in weapondry, as well as the fact that at time the relative numberse were somewhat close, would make this more than possible. The Humans do this in Ares, and the Obish do it in YOUR PLUG.
Have I enlightened you?
Well, I think we can that arguing doesn't work well to resolve these types of differences. How about a vote?
I vote the Gaitori could whoop the Obish if they went to war again.
Votes have no place in logic. 20 stupid people aren't necissarily more correct than 1 smart person. (I am not identifying with either side.)
I will, however, accept a truce. We have no clue about relative #s, which is VERY important.
I'm calling the whole argument a draw for lack of information, and declaring a truce with Slug: from now on, I'm going to disagree by saying "I'm not sure you have the information to make that claim." or similar instead of going all hostile. In return, Slug agrees not to dismiss me out of hand. Do you agree to the terms, Slug?
Darkk, you also exhasperate me. Yes, one on one Obish escorts will easily kill Gaitori ships but you fail to take in account the fact that the Obish are the few and the Gaitori are the many. The thousands verses the sentinels: you do the math.
If Gaitor and Obain went to war, Gaitor would easily win because of their a) massive industrial base their militaristic devotion c) their battle strategies d) sheer weight in numbers but most importantly: e) Full support from the Cantharan Order
As for the Obish Battleship, the system was taken from Obain by Gaitor during the war. In the game, the bunkers are still occupied by Gaitori!
------------------ Never put all your ranking officers in a shuttle.
(This message has been edited by Slug (edited 12-29-2000).)
This is silly. None of us can prove this. I'm going to stop reading this now, as you haven't presented any new facts.
Wrong Darkk, you can't prove any of your arguments.
Originally posted by Slug: a) (Gaitor's) massive industrial base
The fact that their ships are so cheap saays that they have mastered mass production.
their militaristic devotion
The fact that the went back on their treaty on Into the Fire... and turned the system into a fleet stagepoint. Also the movie intro should show something.
c) their battle strategies
They attack in swarms, then when the enemy is about finished they bring in the big guns. I refer you to While the Iron is Hot , Out of the Frying Pan... , the Part One Intro, and most of the rest of the game....
d) sheer weight in numbers
This one should be obvious, but if you're Darkkish in your observation skills, I'll point out the most basic and irrefutible proof. In that part of Ares, the Human/Ishiman cooperative merely smashed through the Gaitori border so it could get to the Cantharans. The Gaitori Union was totally caught off guard, seeing as a military movement from the Ishimans was the last thing they expected.
Had they known that Ishima was going to invade their masters, the Cantharans, Gaitor would have faced down and destroyed the Ishiman Protectorate.
(Hmmp. I try to calm down and you start ranting. Now you're even using my name as a synonym for stupid. Such manners.)
I'm not disputing any of that. I agree the Gaitor are a massive military.
What I don't agree on is that the Obish navy sucks now as much as it did before.
I never said that Darkk. Why can't you just admit you're wrong for once?
Enough. This discussion is bringing out everyone's animal side.