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Will Coldstone be open source, so that you can modify the game without the editor? If so, what language will it be written in? Will you be able to create a party for your games, or have others join you? If so, how many, and how will you track and switch these members? Will there be any possible way to make this an online RPG, even if you have to edit the code or use other programs?
1. No, the games created with Coldstone will not be open source, and you wil not need the Coldstone application to run your games. Also, onec your game is distributed, the game will not be editable on other peoples Computers (ie. They will not be able to modify your work, even if they have a copy of Coldstone)
2. I am unable to say whether parties will be an option in Coldstone, it is a possibility but no-one is definate on this issue.
3. There is no way Coldstone games will be networkable, the resources need to start an online gameplay service would be too great, and there is no network code implemented in Coldstone anyway, and seeing as it's already in beta 2, there is no way any network code will be added.
------------------ Friction leads to fire, you could get burned, How much ink I just injected is none of your concern, Unless your on terms of understanding the omega, He controlls the mix so you can inherit the heater.
As a side point, all this information is easyily accesable either via the FAQ or using the forum search option. Seeing as your a first time poster, you have an excuse, but if I see any long time members posting questions without first checking the FAQ or doing a search. I will lower their Karma. You have all been warned.
BTW. Saphfire, I appologise if this seems like a flame directed at you, it's not, I just though that this was a relevant and convienient place to put my warning.
I really hope they let you put characters in your party, it's the only way my game will work out. I think I'll start working around the party feature, making the would be party members NPC's that will just help out from time to time.
------------------ "How can you hope to command them? They are the Ikthey, they do not submit," --Talia, speaking to Wilanthor
Lorenoth: I couldn't attack you in the "Will coldstone be released for PC?" because it was closed but I guess I can here. Please, do not call an Apple computer a MAC. It is not a frickin' acronym, it is Mac. As a "Mac user" I would think you would know this.
As for the open source part, not a chance. As for running the games, you will not need the editor (hint Stand alone games READ THE FAQ). As for network, do you think ASW would host a gaming server for games that might not even be distributed under them, I think not. As for the average Joe hosting their own gaming server, besides a few with the knowhow I don't think the rest of us could do it. Besides, single player RPGs are a lot more fun to me and fit my playing style. I don't want to have to cooperate, maybe I do so from time to time in Unreal but in an RPG I want to control my guys and have them do what I want. I don't want to play with newbies and their trainers (ahem open b.net).
------------------ Was it the Chad? -------------------------------- Make sure you visit the Coldstone Hotline Server run by GlueBubble. The IP is: 65.4.86.190
Quote
Originally posted by DarkBlade: **I don't want to play with newbies and their trainers (ahem open b.net). **
GRR THAT MAKES ME MAD!
------------------ They say it's mostly vanity that writes the plays we act-- They tell me thats what everybody knows. There's no such thing as sanity, and thats the sanest fact-- Thats the way the story goes...
Originally posted by DarkBlade: Lorenoth: I couldn't attack you in the "Will coldstone be released for PC?" because it was closed but I guess I can here. Please, do not call an Apple computer a MAC. It is not a frickin' acronym, it is Mac. As a "Mac user" I would think you would know this.
I believe that it was capitalized to show emphasis, not because Lorenoth thought it was an acronym... Lighten up, dude.
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/skyblade500/omega_conspiracy/index.html")The Omega Conspiracy(/url) - An (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/games/evo")EV Override(/url) Novella (url="http://"http://www.angelfire.com/ma3/skyblade/shadowblade")Shadowblade(/url) - A (url="http://"http://www.beenox.com/coldstone.html")Coldstone(/url) Roleplaying Game (url="http://"http://www.marijuana.com")The Internet's Answer to the Drug War(/url) ------------------
Darkblade, I read the FAQ, and I wasn't asking if you could run the game without the editor, I was asking if you could edit the game without the editor by rewriting the source code. I certainly hope Coldstone will implement parties, as well as many other features, because I have not seen one RPG without more than one character. The addition of mini-games and real-time action sequences would also be nice. And frankly, nobody cares about your views on online RPGs, because in truth, they can become wildly popular, especially ones in the likes of Everquest and Ultima:Online. I'm not asking is Ambrosia will host these games, I am only inquiring as to whether or not they are possible if you had the resources. Also, I know the battles will take place on the map, but can anyone detail the system? Will it be like Baldur's Gate or Exile, or more like Final Fantasy or ChronoTrigger? (I am personally vieing for ChronoTrigger) Or even better, will it be customizable?
Originally posted by saphfire: ...I was asking if you could edit the game without the editor by rewriting the source code.
Why on earth would you want to edit the source code of your game rather than using the editor? Not to mention you'd have to have some way to decompile it first...?
**...I have not seen one RPG without more than one character. **
Hmm... Diablo 1 and 2, the original Dragon Quest/Dragon Warrior, the entire Zelda series... I think there are a few one-PC RPGs out there.
** ...frankly, nobody cares about your views... **
Try and be a little nicer to folks, OK?
Also, I know the battles will take place on the map, but can anyone detail the system? Will it be like Baldur's Gate or Exile, or more like Final Fantasy or ChronoTrigger? (I am personally vieing for ChronoTrigger) Or even better, will it be customizable?
Well, I believe it has been established on this board that the battle system was substantially revamped for beta 2 of Coldstone, so you're out of luck on this one. The people who know are Andrew, Dee, and the beta testers, and they won't tell you; anyone else doesn't know any more about the battle engine than you do. Sorry!
------------------ ΒIf a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has so much as to be out of danger?Β - T.H. Huxley
-deleted-
(This message has been edited by Madman (edited 01-29-2001).)
Tu shΓ© (sp?) on the RPGs, Glenn, however, I would question the validity of Diablo (more of a hack and slash with rpg elements) and Zelda (an adventure) being classified as RPGs. I was pointing mainly to all console RPGs and several popular PC RPGs, including Baldur's Gate, Avernum, Cythera, Exile, etc...all of which would be incomplete without a party system. I particularly like the party system in the Final Fantasy series, in which you can have a number of characters and switch between them to form parties. For my games, I would like to have an enhanced version of this system, in which you can dispatch groups to explore different areas and solve puzzles (which has been done before). Will I be able to accomplish this in Coldstone? Also, access to the source code, much like WYSIWYG Web Editors provide access to the source code, could prove helpful to customize the engine, fit it to a specific need, optimize the engine, or make updates and add-ons. And I'm sorry for being rude to Darkblade, I was just conveying the point that his views are not held by everyone and many may welcome network games. ~Saphfire
It's TouchΓ©.
I'm going to chime in and agree that I don't think of Diablo as an RPG, but rather an action game with RPG-like elements, which some would call an adventure game. Vagrant Story (with timed hits) is about as "real-time" as I care to get in Role-Playing games. I would categorize Zelda as an adventure game as well.
RPGs aren't about reflexes; I'm not entirely certain which elements I would say make a game to be an "RPG," though. They usually involve some form of the fantastic or futuristic, but don't have to, they usually involve statistics to some degree but don't have to, they often involve a bit of strategy, but don't have to, they're supposed to involve storytelling to some degree but there are a few games that don't...
ooh! I know, discussion time! Maybe we can finally kill that thread on spellcasting... What characteristics would anyone else think helps define "RPG" as a genre?
talk amongst yourselves.
------------------ People who claim the sky is falling obviously aren't aware the earth is falling, too.
Originally posted by sanehatter: **
talk amongst yourselves. **
This sounds like fun! And could be worthwhile if posters refrain from criticizing others thoughts on RPG's.
Let's all let it evolve with no attempt to change anyone's mind.
For me, RPG's are possible only on/with computers and not consoles... My reasons for believing this are based on the (present) non-ablility of consoles to have self-modifying game code and RW storage for saving games in progress.
Books, theater, film, consoles and interactive TV all create a 'situation' populated with characters (NPC's) and problems, puzzles, enemies to overcome. RPG's also must have this.
All allow for some character growth and/or freedom of choice of action for the participant (not the viewer/reader). An actor can 'play the role' and create a much different character than the author imagined or intended. Think Robin Wiliams here. The Shakespeare plays are still living because the author created very real situations for the actors while giving them great freedom in interpretating the role.
What is different in computer based action/adventure games that makes them for me 'role playing', and what is missing from all other forms that I mentioned above is not statistics, battle type, character 'growth' of some type, but this:
Computer based RPG's (my definition of the genre) do not fix the character type, class or role for the protagonist(s). The RPG doesn't insert the protagonist into the plot and just give the player simple control of the PC's actions. The player gets to determine to a very great extent what role the player character/protagonist is going to take for each time the player starts the game. 'What race, caste, sex, job, alignment should I use in the situation this time I play?' Should I have a party? Of 2? 4? 6? Should we all be fighters? Mages? Female? A mix? There is a pre-existing situation, a story in the making, but it isn't totally laid out as is a novel, stage play or console game. Of course there are presently 'RPG's' out there today that have it all laid out for you, but for me they are not RPG's but are 'adventure' games.
Because the player has these choices for the role(s) played statistics do play a very important part in defining these choices and the game must allow for changing stats as the game progresses (thus the need for saving complex game information and not just a 12-20 byte come.
Because these choices exist, the well designed RPG should allow for multiple PC's, allow for strategy in battles and not just hack/slash/hold button down/ jiggle stick and allow for multiple choices and outcomes as the game progresses.
In short, for me an RPG forces the player to make choices in determining the role(s) adapted to play, and to make viable and meaningful choices as the game progresses that actually have the game play differently because of these choices. And of course, have the protagonist(s) grow and learn (or suffer) depending on the players choices/actions.
And them some... Just searching for pefection!
Skip
------------------ ...it wasn't me...
I think an RPG is about choices, as well as (to a certain extent) layout. Personally, I very much consider letting EV into the realm of RPGs, or rather of Computer based RPGs, because of the story line. Story is another thing I think makes an RPG an RPG, or atleast makes it a decent RPG. I suppose early RPGs, Zelda, Secret of Mana (from what i remember) didn't really leave you with much of a choice, but i think that becuase EV had such a huge story line that progressed to such an extent, with so many optional paths, it kind of counts as an RPG. Though not really, cause it wasn't set out like an RPG at all.
But come to think of it, barely any RPG's leave you witht he sort of choices you get in EV, well none I have played. You are always trying to accomplish the same goal each time you play, here I'm thinking BG, Cythera, etc. So I suppose it is choice in responses, subplots, and what not. While they may have an ending, and certain points in between which are always done, each game can be radically different.
Personally, I don't consider Diablo an RPG, if you ask me it is more of a glorified, RPG-perspective doom. Why do I think this? It is all ahck and slash, the story is pretty much non-existant. You feel the need to go kill a big demon, because he is evil, and you are good. Well, that is /basically/ it.
Sorry if this makes little sense, I'm kind of tired.
------------------ He stood, paralysed as the beauty of the pattern unfolded under pressure, the hectic chaos forming designs more intricate then the smallest smile.
I consider Role Playing Games merely an alternate existence in which the player makes choices that decide the fate of that realm and focuses on plot and immersion, whether the characters are defined for you or not. Personally, I enjoy console RPG's more than traditional PC counterparts because of the detailed relationships with the characters in the game. Sure, you can't totally decide their situation, yet, like a double-edged sword, it draws you in because of the amount of detail and the feeling that you are part of and can make an impact on their life, like a long lost friend. To me, RPGs aren't about stats or battles, but feeling a part of something larger, and being enthralled in an adventure that defies time itself. ~Saphfire
I am going to agree 100% with what Mashish said about "rpgs being about choices". To me, an RPG is where you have a character who evolves during the course of the game and is allowed to make choices and has very little freedom of movement. RPGs should allow you to stray off course though too, adding more depth to it.
what doth i consider an rpg...good question...
Freedom to choose whether or not you actually go off to fight big pimp at end of dungeon #1 or not ("hmmm...lets see here, there's a demon raiding the school...i could stop him, or i could go skiing instead and come back later to see what's happened")
Interaction between characters. this would be, well, most utilized in multiplayer (hey, there could always be a path/big-ass plug-in that allowed coldstone to make mp games) rather than single, as in multiplayer rpgs, you can talk to another player, ask for help, etc, and he/she may or may not react in a friendly way, depending on their mood, whereas NPC's almost always react friendly/unfriendly, always predictably, and their attitude is determined by even triggers, rather than how you treat them
Freedom to move around without tripping about 20 event triggers (go psx! can't leave the city till it's been destroyed, sorry!!) anyone who's seen me in #ev will know quite well that i despise the new FF games coming out, namely cause there is no freedom to do what you wish in the game
uhm, well, hrmmm...a 4th reason (that's viable..)..oh, yeah, make your own character, with different stats for each one, different skills, etc..
that's it, i'm off to paint more orcs and get ready for DnD game this weekend or next
-TM
------------------ "You brought a gun to a swordfight?" "Yeah, so?" "You find your hand missing and your head severed"
There is no set mold for a "role playing game." are you playing the role of youself in a different situation? or are you playing the role of someone else, escaping from your own persona? there have been absolutely excellent arguments for both, produced in the form of games created over the last 10 some odd years (or earlier, though they would be before my time). And recently, we've been seeing all the shades in between start to fill out.
While I loved the freedom that Baldur's Gate gave me, I found at the same time that it was counteracted by the limited depth allowed by the technology in creating a world in which to explore. So, untill we can all be hooked up to a massive world where we all choose our own fates on-line, I think the completely open-ended RPG form will still suffer from a sort of incompleteness. We're getting there though.
Meanwhile, when I sit down to play Chrono Trigger, I can't stop myself from getting sucked up into the incredible world that Squaresoft created. Every aspect of a good story is there. It's like watching a movie that you get to unravel the plot of for yourself. Yes, I do hear the cries of "limiting! limiting!," and I can sympasize. There were many a time that I wished nothing more than to just explore the forests and the towns of CT at will, but in the end I had to submit to the (admittedly limiting) storyline. However, that isn't necessarily a bad thing. If you have a gifted enough storyteller backing up your RPG (and a slew of digital artists/musicians), it can be as compelling as anything you've ever experienced.
So, people have to choose -- for now. Depth of story, or freedom. Well, hopefully that will all change someday. But for now, I think it's up to us to do what we can to bridge that gap, or at least die trying. I know that's what I'm planning anyway...
good luck to everyone out there. and I will pray to my Hector shrine for a release date...
------------------ Jedi
here's my two cents. ok, it's more like two hundred pennies, because I'm rambling somewhat, but still...
When I graduated from college, I had been a pen-and-paper role-player for almost a decade. I had played with a number of differing groups, from the rules-oriented number-cruching "power" players in monty haul campaigns ("munchkins") to those types of players who would play a pacifist character simply for the challenge of role-playing such a character. The munchkins moved on to CCGs when those became popular, and the role-players didn't.
To me, role-playing is about collaborative story-telling; number-crunching isn't my thing. Unfortunately, computers are by nature number based, and any interaction one has with them must be done through numerical means (at least on the low-level). For now, a program can only interact with its user in methods allowed by its programmer (even if unintentional).
Telling stories collaboratively requires a degree of improvisation, which computers cannot really do yet. Better Artifical Intelligence will need to be developped first. Improvisation involves a lot more than calling a rand() function; indeed, it takes most musicians a few solid years of practice before they really feel comfortable improvising on their instrument of choice. Until then, an author (gamemaster, programmer, etc) and a reader (player) cannot really collaborate through a pre-programmed interface.
Computer and Console RPGs, because of these limitations, are something else entirely. In most cases, the player is taking part in a story (with a somewhat more active roll than in a film), and does some exploring and strategizing.
Part of the reason for the difference between console games and computer RPGs are the audiences; there are completely different demographics for the computer market then there are for the console market. Console gamers tend to be younger and less sophisticated, so the games made for them tend to reflect that. Computer gamers tend to be older and a little more sophisticated, so games made for them tend to reflect that.
IMHO, even with the current limitations on electronic RPGs, there is room for improvement. Console games tend to do a good job with storytelling and creating a vivid world, but often feel "closed" in the ways you can interact with the world.
Computer RPGs tend to be more open in terms of world interaction, but for the sake of time/resource utilization on the part of the programmatic staff, the story isn't as "front-and-center" and the world isn't as vivid (I once played "Arena" on a friend's PC... huge world, but very bland). Some computer RPGs have such a complete lack of focus that some players are left asking, "What do I do now?"
Also, we should remember that there is a balance between strong storytelling and character customization. When a player chooses their own character, the game author is limited in the kinds of personal drama they can use in their stories. When you involve multiple characters of the player's choice, it becomes even more difficult to use these types of story mechanisms. Involving a character's personal life is, to me, a good way to help us remember that we're dealing with a character and not a collection of numbers.
I guess that it all boils down to personal taste and preference for play styles, which brings us back to the munchkins v. the actors. If you prefer to think of your character as a collection of numbers, than player customization is a must for you. OTOH, if you prefer to think of your character as a person, customization can't really work with electronic RPGs until we get better AI.
And now I'm going to go check out Neverwinter Nights, which circumvents the AI problem altogether.