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He has a huge fleet, though.
------------------ Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. -Alduran Outlaw Rick Blazer StarLance
Gateships for the sake of having transportation would be a bit of a waste of resources when you could build jump gates (unless you can't, in which case the Gateship is your only choice). For the more advanced/industrialized species gateships are probably multi-purpose ships. And because of their high tactical value and ability to make an excelent weapons platform, they could easily make a decent battle wagon.
------------------ Throughout their history these "unenlightened" beings have continually opposed and fought abuses of power wrought by their own bretheren. We, as the prophets would do well to learn from these Humans. -Final statement of the Salrilian reformist Sirthis shortly before his execution.
Jumpgates work for fleet movement, yes, but most fleet movements require you venture into systems that you don't have jumpgates in (ie: enemy space ).
I agree, though, that Gateships are maybe multifunctional, but not for combat. They're just too tempting a target in combat situations. As we know they are capable of putting out increadible power, seeing as they're veritable flying cities.
They are big ships with big shields, so they must have advanced sensors and advanced propulsion systems. Maybe a robotics bay here or a hydroponics plant there. In times of peace they could be used for chartering and colonization.
Or if there's a particularily large mearchant fleet they could be used to boost jumpgate signal strength.
I know for a fact that the Salrilians and Audemedons don't use gateships because in Yo Ho Ho and The Left Hand the ships were able to enter the system on their own. Not sure about the Obish or Elejeetians.
(This message has been edited by Slug (edited 11-22-2000).)
The way I see it, there are a few ways of travelling across space, and they are used by different people(sometimes interchangeably, sometimes because of personal preference)
normal engines: Your ship spits stuff out the back, and goes forward.
FTL/ Hyperlight: moves the ship at or just above lightspeed, somehow overcoming Einstein's rules. These are still slow, but they can move ships around a system wicked fast.
Hyperspace:moves the ship onto another level of reality, or hyperspace. Basically, allowing the ship to bypass the laws of physics and travel really fast. I almost see this a running "under" real space, forces in hyperspace can affect things in normal space, and vice-versa, so Gravity wells, and ionised nebulas, and reactive asteroid fields are bad news for ships in hyperspace. This is relatively fast, travelling light years in seconds.
Omnispace: Basically an even more extreme level of reality to travel through, but this seems to create a much bigger disturbance in normal space when used by large masses at high speeds. Also, this is more sensitive to conditions in normal space, and it tends to do more damage to the fabric of space than Hyperspace drives.
Quasispace: I think this was made up to bring in the starlance, but basically an even more extreme version of Omnispace, puts a lot more stress on space, but the ships really move with quasispace.
Jumplinks: Some sort of Nijayais invention, but is seems to only work along plotted routes(maybe the computer has to know certain things about the route before launching, so the hyperlinks need to be surveyed before they can be used) I guess this is sort of like the EV method of travel, sort of limiting, but faster than the other drives, assuming you're going through plotted space.
Jumpgates: Used to transfer a large ammount of material through space instantly. When you have two jumpgates, they bend space together, so that the gate acts as a direct link between the two places. This means that once you have constructed the jumpgates, you can just fly stuff through them, and it gets to its destination instantly. These are probably expensive, so they are used to connect "Hub" systems, and ships can use hyperspace from the hubs.
Gateships: I see these things as basically gigantic, mobile jumpgates, which can be connected to either another gateship, or a stationary jumpgate, to provide rapid transport of troops to most locations. The gateships themselves must be capable of moving very rapidly, so they probably have some sort of way of projecting themselves across space near instantly, and in previous RPG's, I've seen them able to perform "Dimensional recall" in which they can pull ships to them from across the galaxy without trouble. Obviously, these technologies are either Expensive, Large, or power consuming, which is why most races only have them on Gateships. Also, most races would only have the ones that they know about, and the ones that are compatable with their currents system of moving ships around.
-Captain Pharris
Uhh, I never said anything to indicate the Nijayias don't use anything but normal superlight, jumpgates, and gateships. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure we use no special propulsion.
The only thing special is we USED to have a large (reletivly) number of gateships. Oh, and we have superlight in our fighters (mentioned so earlier that you probably never heard it), and now some superlight missles (no warhead, just pseaudokinetic impact).
------------------ Error: target is violating the laws of physics Error: target is locally exceeding c Error: unable to determine if target exists or not Error: target cannot be hit
Quote
Originally posted by Slug: **I know for a fact that the Salrilians and Audemedons don't use gateships because in Yo Ho Ho and The Left Hand the ships were able to enter the system on their own. Not sure about the Obish or Elejeetians.
**
What about the Ishimans? In Level 16, 6 Ishiman ships entered the system but you don't see the gate ship either.
I believe the gate ship doesn't necessarily needs to enter the system along with the other ships. Perhaps it can stay in hyperspace and open up a rift, allowing the other ships to enter. It is also safer for the gate ship this way.
------------------ "Ceterum censeo Carthaginem esse delendam"
Actually, I always thought Gateships could project jumpgates, with no need for any destination apparatus, or origonation apparatus if calling in reinforcements.
Yeah. There's nothing for the freighters to come in in Make Way, and I've always thought the Ishiman gateship projected a jumpgate. The ships in Yo Ho Ho that came in were brought in by a trio of jumpgate modules.
------------------ "You can get much further with kind words and a loaded gun than you can with kind words alone." - Al Capone
**The way I see it, there are a few ways of travelling across space, and they are used by different people(sometimes interchangeably, sometimes because of personal preference)
FTL/ Hyperlight: moves the ship at or just above lightspeed, somehow overcoming Einstein's rules. These are still slow, but they can move ships around a system wicked fast.**
In order to bypass Einstein's laws, one would have to "warp" the space around oneself so it is in a state the Steven Hawking was quoted "Plyable" meaning that you could travel faster than light, but then how much faster depends on the amount of "warping" you do to the space.
Hyperspace exists above normal space and the universal laws there are "accelerated" if you will. Steven Hawking told us: "In hyperspace the speed limit is raised.". 'Nuff said.
Space that has been badly warped to an extreme can stay warped and turn into an inversion, where all the layers of reality are badly jumbled in certain regions for an amount of time. Omnispace is just a fancy name for this. I suppose the Phylydions, in all their advancement, have somehow managed to control this and use Omnispace to gain access to other layers of space, perhaps those above Hyperspace.
Quasispace and Omnispace are interchangable terms. I just didn't want Cicion accusing me of stealing his technology.
It's the system EV/O uses. By placing two singularities at certain locations apart, they'll 'dig' into space in the same way a black hole makes that very big gravitational well. If they are focused enough they'll bend their gravity wells so deep, they at one point make contact because the universe is not an open universe. GW-wise it is saddle-shaped so the two gravity wells aren't paralell. They'll connect like bubbles do, and pull tight, making an arc-shaped tunnel below space. Any ship entering one of the ends will be pulled (by gravity and it's momentum) through to the other side very quickly indeed.
See above. Only that Ares doesn't use them for military movements.
Gateships can do the following: Bend space so they can go anywhere they want, create jumpgates to any location within a certain range and send the fleet to locations without other hardware there, pull ships to it's location, and boost jumpgate signal strength.
Gateships are used for moving fleets into systems when there are no friendly jumpgates to use.
Originally posted by htjyang: **What about the Ishimans? In Level 16, 6 Ishiman ships entered the system but you don't see the gate ship either. **
But if you look at the level in Hera, you'll see it creates a "JumpGate Effect Large" when those ships enter the system. Apparently there is a jumpgate end. Also the Audemedon device is a "JumpGate Inhibitor", meaning it disrupts JumpGates. I conclude they entered through a JumpGate.
Remember the G.C.S. Caretaker in Chapter 3 (While the Iron is Hot)? Would you believe the Gaitori had a Gateship? snicker
(This message has been edited by Slug (edited 11-23-2000).)
"Jumpgate ends" can be made by jumpgates or gateships.
Where the **** did jumplinks appear? I do most of the "making Nijayias tech", and you claim it's a Nijayias system. Additionally, the technique you described wouldn't work. There would be no way to know before the link was made where it would come out.
As far as I know, the Nijayias use plain, ordinary, jump gates, hyperspace, and gateships. If I used the term "jump link", I was probably referring to the connection between 2 jump gates.
(This message has been edited by Fleet Admiral Darkk (edited 11-23-2000).)
Originally posted by Slug: **But if you look at the level in Hera, you'll see it creates a "JumpGate Effect Large" when those ships enter the system. Apparently there is a jumpgate end. Also the Audemedon device is a "JumpGate Inhibitor", meaning it disrupts JumpGates. I conclude they entered through a JumpGate.
The keyword in "JumpGate Effect Large" is "effect." Perhaps one should consider the possibility that the word "JumpGate" in that phrase is used to describe an "effect," not necessarily the existence of a jumpgate. After all, you don't see a jumpgate in level 16. Ditto for "JumpGate Inhibitor."
I would like to suggest that the Gaitori may not be as backward as one might think. (Did I open a can of worms here?) The mining pulse on the Gaitori gunship is one of only 2 weapons in the entire game that has auto-targeting and tracking capabilities. The other one being the magno pulse installed on the Salrilian carrier and the Cantharan gateship. No other race seems to be equipped with this kind of weapon. Many others have already noticed that the Gaitori guns can cause serious damage due to its fast firing rate. When you take them into consideration, I don't think it is that hard to believe that the Gaitori may actually have a gate ship. Of course, maybe the Gaitori gateship is not as powerful as the Cantharan gate ship. Maybe the Gaitori gateship is completely unarmed. But I do believe it is possible for the Gaitori to have a gateship.
(You forgot the Shrikeolator Pulse but that's not important)
a) The Gaitori were subjugated by the Cantharan Order. They don't have the equipment, the access, the technology, or even the resources to build one. The Gaitori don't inhabit many systems so they wouldn't need one. c) Because someone has a few big guns, doesn't mean they have advanced everything. d) It said in the Warning text the Carrier was in a jumpstream, which is another name for the tunnel that connects two jumpgates. e) Once you're out of Gaitori space, that's it. If they had a Gateship they would be able to follow. You only see them again in Yo Ho Ho, and that's because they used a Jumpgate to get there.
Originally posted by Slug: **a) The Gaitori were subjugated by the Cantharan Order. They don't have the equipment, the access, the technology, or even the resources to build one.
You're assuming that they didn't build one before they were subjugated by the Order. You're also assuming that the Order (or even the Salrilians) didn't give them one as the price of their loyalty.
Originally posted by Slug: **The Gaitori don't inhabit many systems so they wouldn't need one.
Pardon me for asking, but how many systems do the Gaitori inhabit? I don't know because the map in Ares doesn't show.
Originally posted by Slug: **c) Because someone has a few big guns, doesn't mean they have advanced everything.
Agreed. On the other hand, you're assuming that they have uneven development. I don't see how you can know this.
Originally posted by Slug: **d) It said in the Warning text the Carrier was in a jumpstream, which is another name for the tunnel that connects two jumpgates.
Did I miss something here? Exactly where in Ares did it define "jumpstream" as "the tunnel that connects two jumpgates?" Are you saying that Ares specifically stated that "jumpstream" cannot be used to mean something formed by a gateship?
Originally posted by Slug: **e) Once you're out of Gaitori space, that's it. If they had a Gateship they would be able to follow. You only see them again in Yo Ho Ho, and that's because they used a Jumpgate to get there.
Another possibility is that after level 6, you're in Cantharan territory and the Gaitori know that the Cantharans do not want others to enter their territory or that the Cantharans prefer to take care of things on their own. There can be any number of explanations for this.
As for level 13, I believe you're the one who noted that a Gaitori carrier managed to show up in level 3. As you must have noticed, there was no jumpgate in level 3. They may have used the jumpgate for level 13. But that doesn't rule out them having a gateship.
The bottomline remains that there is no jumpgate in levels 3 and 4.
Are we actually discussing something about Ares here?
The reason why I have to be unnecessarily quarrelsome on this seemingly minor point is that since I am writing a story about Ares, I need to pin down as many details as I can. I think you are basing your hypothesis (that the Gaitori does not have a gateship) on too many of your own assumptions. There's nothing wrong with that (since I am doing the same) but I do believe you should be aware of alternative assumptions.
Originally posted by Sargatanus: the Nijayias Empire was eventually trampled and disected between the Phylydions, Salrilians, and Audemedons.
Actually, the Audemedons are "Robots" and not organic. They can not be relatives of the Nijayias.
------------------ To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond!
Originally posted by Sargatanus: **...or post information of your own. **
Hmmmmm, could I post something?
Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur: **Actually, the Audemedons are "Robots" and not organic. They can not be relatives of the Nijayias. **
Uh, their territory was divided between those three powers. I'm not saying anything about genetic relation between them.
Basically, I think most ships bigger than a fighter can move around at at least hyperspace speedsunder their own power. However, the universe is vast, and traversing it at hyperspace would take ages, even if you could go lightyears per minute. Basically, a ship travelling at hyperspace is still moving through real space, and it takes time. to move around.
I see Gateships as providing a way to accellerate this movement. By useing a gateship or jumpgate, a person can go much faster than he could at hyperspace speeds, as he would travel almost instantly between any two points, so it would make sence for a race to use jumpgates for heavily travelled routes that are used by ships that don't need hyperspace(Freighters, transports, etc...) and gateships can be used to expadite fleet movements where there are no jumpgates, for example, flying a massive invasion fleet through hyperspacewould allow the enemy to see them coming and build up defences, however, if you sent a gateship, it could use its equipment to bring itself wherever it wanted to go, then recall the rest of a fleet to it, or pull a fleet with it through a jumplink it makes. Either way, it is faster, and harder to see coming, because travel through gates is instantanious. Also, gateships are scaleable, a cheap race could build one that just flies around on hyperspace, but connects to jumpgates to let other ships come to it easily, while a richer race could make an all capable gateship capable of everything.
Originally posted by Slug: **It's the system EV/O uses. By placing two singularities at certain locations apart, they'll 'dig' into space in the same way a black hole makes that very big gravitational well. If they are focused enough they'll bend their gravity wells so deep, they at one point make contact because the universe is not an open universe. GW-wise it is saddle-shaped so the two gravity wells aren't paralell. They'll connect like bubbles do, and pull tight, making an arc-shaped tunnel below space. Any ship entering one of the ends will be pulled (by gravity and it's momentum) through to the other side very quickly indeed. **
Hey, isn't this what a wormhole is? or in the ares universe, does this mean a jump link? gosh, this is so confusing...and i cant believe my simple post caused such an uproar! :eek:
------------------ "Those the gods wish to destroy, they first make mad! bwahahahaha (maniacal laughter)" Xanthos from Baldur's Gate
(This message has been edited by Piemur1 (edited 11-24-2000).)
Originally posted by Sargatanus: **Uh, their territory was divided between those three powers. I'm not saying anything about genetic relation between them. **
Ooooohhhhhh! Sorry.
Originally posted by Piemur1: **Hey, isn't this what a wormhole is? or in the ares universe, does this mean a jump link? gosh, this is so confusing... **
A wormhole is a natural and more stable version of it, yes.