Wormholes and bits

I think I already know the answer to this question ("no"), but I'll ask anyway.

I want to create two systems, one only visible when bxxx isn't set, and one only visible when bxxx is set (mutually exclusive systems, in other words, which will occupy exactly the same coordinates in the galaxy). I want b1 to be set by traveling through a wormhole from one system into the other; in other words, you go through the wormhole, and find yourself at the same coordinates in the galaxy, but a different system. If you go through it again, you're back in the original system (by unsetting bxxx).

Is there any way to do this? I tried having a silent mission be accepted automatically upon landing on the wormhole, but since it's wormhole you don't actually land... so that didn't work.

The only solution I can come up with is not using a wormhole at all, but rather a spöb made to look like wormhole (or something), which gives you a silent mission with b1 set, and also sets Nxxx placing you in the second system (and, if it's possible, a Qxxx as well, to make the player leave immediately).

Any other ideas?

I'm rather intrigued as to what story purpose this effect might be serving, but at first glance the solution you suggest does seem the most elegant. One minor undesirable result is that the text prompts would refer to landing on a planet rather than entering a wormhole — marking it uninhabited would at least get rid of any references to traffic control — but is there any other reason why this approach is insufficient to your needs?

Wouldn't setting it to uninhabited prevent the mission from being started (as there's no spaceport)?

As for why I need it, I'm hesitant to say, as it's kind of a huge part of an original TC I've started work on, and I don't want to give away too much about it (and, for that matter, if I end up stalling out on it, I don't want to have made much fuss about it in the beginning).

In theory, your solution should work, though I have no idea whether or not it actually will. As for using wormholes, I don't think they'll take you to any system that's not visible when you land. So since it only has one destination, you never landed, thus the bit is never set... it's a cycle. That's my theory, anyway.

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As for using wormholes, I don't think they'll take you to any system that's not visible when you land.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you're right about that. I think the solution I came up with will work fairly well, just not quite as gracefully as a wormhole would have.

Perhaps instead of disguising the planet as a wormhole, have the mission say something like, "An anomaly appears and sucks you in before spitting you back out. Everything looks the same, but you have the strangest feeling..." The player can then take off, be in the other system, and do whatever it is you want them to do.

I can't seem to make it work.

I've created a plugin to test it, with four systems; Start 1 and System 1 (which includes Planet 1), and Start 2 and System 2 (which includes Planet 2). I also created a chär which begins in Start 1, and set System 1 to only be visible at !b9112 and System 2 to to be visible at b9112. Finally, there's a mission, automatically started upon landing on Planet 1, which sets b9112 and transports the player to System 2. Its objective is to travel to Planet 2, upon which b9112 is cleared.

At first, it just plain wouldn't work. System 1 wouldn't disappear, and Planet 2 wouldn't let the player land (saying the environment was too hostile... which was weird enough by itself, seeing as I definitely made Planet 2 hospitable). And now, it just crashes the game whenever I try to enter System 1.

I've attached the plugin here. Anyone have an idea what's going on?

Well, I don't know what else to say other than it seems it won't work. I do have another question, though. Is there any reason the systems have to be mutually exclusive? I going to assume for a moment that, apart from the wormhole in it, System 1 in First Contact (I'm also assuming this is for that TC) appears to be an average system. I'm also assuming System 2 is identical to System 1 for the most part, but has something else in it the player can fiddle with or somewhere they need to go. Would it be possible for the scenario you have planned to let System 2 be visible at all times, or just after a certain point?

Basically, you could have System 2 have the same name and occupy the same coordinates as System 1, but not link to any other system, except to System 1 via the wormholes. The player would still have to go to System 1 in order to get to System 2, and they'll still appear to be the same system. Would that work for your planned scenario?

Hmmm, it's possible that would work... I'll test it out.

All this talking around the matter is making it more confusing, so I'll just explain what I'm going for.

This isn't for First Contact (though I maintain that's not vaporware; just temporarily-stalled-ware), it's for another idea I got that will almost certainly never be released, at least not within the next several years. Still, the idea entertained me, and I thought I'd see what I could do with it.

The scenario would be right when Humanity first starts exploring space; the map at the beginning is literally just the Solar System, individual systems for each planet. Exploring outside the Solar System is, at least at the beginning, impossible, as the technology to reach that far hasn't yet been invented.

However, the player will at some point stumble into a wormhole/rift in space/something else which teleports him (preferably without him even knowing at first) to another dimension. This other dimension would be largely the same, except in it Humanity has explored farther into space, and there will be lots more to explore and do. Maybe there will be links to other dimensions, some of them very different, etc., etc. (I guess this would be a bit like Sliders, only for EV).

So very much a basic idea, with lots of fleshing out to, if I even decide to pursue it. But it seems important to establish whether it's even feasible to enact the main plot device before I do anything else.

Oh, so entire maps would be mutually exclusive. You'd have one map for our dimension's solar system, and another for the alternate dimension including other systems, if I understand correctly. In that case, you might try making every system for each dimension mutually exclusive except the portal systems. Everything else appears and disappears, but the portal systems are always there. This should allow you to travel from one to the other.

As for triggering the rest of each dimension, this can be done, in theory, through invisible missions. Mission 2 places an invisible ship in System 2 and Mission 1 places an identical ship in System 1. Both ships have observe objectives and are placed in the system randomly. Both missions are immediately activated once the player lands on any stellar in the other dimension (this should be possible through fancy gövt usage). For each mission, the OnShipDone field would set/clear the bit allowing the rest of the systems for its dimension to appear, and abort the mission.

Again, this is all theory, but it could work and is at the very least a place to start. Hope it helps. 🙂

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As for triggering the rest of each dimension, this can be done, in theory, through invisible missions. Mission 2 places an invisible ship in System 2 and Mission 1 places an identical ship in System 1. Both ships have observe objectives and are placed in the system randomly. Both missions are immediately activated once the player lands on any stellar in the other dimension (this should be possible through fancy gövt usage). For each mission, the OnShipDone field would set/clear the bit allowing the rest of the systems for its dimension to appear, and abort the mission.

I have to be honest, I read that a dozen times, and still wasn't sure I understood it correctly 😊.

I think I did distill from it a slightly simpler version of the same thing, though (oh, and you understood correctly regarding the mutually-exclusive maps).

There would be one Portal world, which is the travel stël for Missions 1 and 2. Mission 1 is available on any planet of gövt 333 (which only exists in one dimension), and Mission 2 is available on any planet of gövt 555 (which only exists in the other dimension). Mission 1 requires !b9112, and sets that bit on its completion. Mission 2 requires b9112, and clears that bit on completion.

According to my one test, this allowed the Portal world to exist in both dimensions, and changed the rest of the map according to which mission had last been completed.

The only flaw I see in this is that it would prevent the player from getting from one dimension to the other without first landing on specific gövt planet in the dimension he's currently in. But I could probably gloss over that by explaining that the portal is erratic (which could be supported by not making the necessary mission always available).

I have not read the entire thread, so I won’t comment on specific methods, but I’m almost entirely certain you will have much more success by moving the systems so they do not occupy the exact same coordinates on the map. Even moving one by one pixel will be enough to solve a lot of issues.

@male_valkyrie, on 23 January 2011 - 09:14 PM, said in Wormholes and bits:

I think I did distill from it a slightly simpler version of the same thing, though (oh, and you understood correctly regarding the mutually-exclusive maps).

There would be one Portal world, which is the travel stël for Missions 1 and 2. Mission 1 is available on any planet of gövt 333 (which only exists in one dimension), and Mission 2 is available on any planet of gövt 555 (which only exists in the other dimension). Mission 1 requires !b9112, and sets that bit on its completion. Mission 2 requires b9112, and clears that bit on completion.

:duh: Of course! Since the portal system remains relatively unchanged, it really only needs one of itself, and would just connect to the rest of each dimension. In that case, eliminate the wormholes completely, place a planet in the portal system (could be inhabited, or not) and have both missions complete at the planet. The first one is started with the new player and is invisible. It's objective is to land at the portal planet. When completed, it sets the bit, placing the player in the alternate dimension, and starts the second mission. This mission also has an objective to land at the portal planet, and clears the bit and starts the first mission when completed.

So when you land on the planet, the dimensions change each time. Landing on a planet of a specific gövt is no longer required allowing players to switch dimensions at will (once they figure out what's going on, anyway) just by landing on the portal planet. If you need me to make that clearer, just say the word. 🙂

Eureka! Got it, DK, that'll work perfectly :).

And all of my tests did involve systems at different coordinate, Qaanol, and I still couldn't get it to work. I think the engine doesn't like it when you try to make a system disappear or appear while the player's in it.

Edit: Another question, though I'm pretty sure the answer to this one is "no" as well (but hey, I was wrong once). Is it possible to use the R(bxxx bxxx) function to choose between more than two bits?

This post has been edited by Male_Valkyrie : 24 January 2011 - 11:25 AM

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