Eji's EVN Balance Project

Look mom! Vaporware!

The EV Nova Balance Project:

Goal:
Through mostly simple numbers changes rebalance EVN + Plugpack 18 to be a more interesting game.

Concept:
Something that's always baffled me was the idea that EVN needed more content. In a lot of ways it's fun to add, but in a lot of other ways there's a TON of dead weight in the EVN universe. Ships that just aren't worth flying, weapons that just aren't worth using, and an entire mode which adds spurts of actual excitement and risk, but poorly balanced with tedium(Strict play). The best thing about the EV universe is what I personally always dubbed the "millennium falcon effect". Taking some broken down POS freighter, hauling it from one edge of the galaxy to another, mixing, matching, and stealing what you can to turn your little cargo rust bucket into an absurd death machine. Sadly i feel there's a lot of ships in the EVN universe where this is just too hard or just not fun. This comes about from a multitude of reasons, but i feel in some ways a lot of it can be fixed with what essentially boils down to simple number changes. No units, spobs, graphics, missions strings, or anything else that new, but instead just balance what's already there to be more useful on a general scale.

The list:
-Make strict play the default form of play(or at least a hell of a lot less tedious). In short make you still hate losing your ship, but don't force you to spend the next 2 hours farming up cash to get something viable again.

-Rebalance ships/variants/outfits in such a way as to allow a much larger feasible ship pool. That's not to say that people haven't beaten the game with racing vipers as is, but i want to make that...less painful.

-More specifically on outfits- Missiles. My god what a cluster ###### missiles are in EVN, even with the plugpack. Hellhound needs some downsides, gravs and EWM's need some upsides for a start.

-Missions and the income provided by: "Welcome son to the federation military top command. You will supply your own ship and if lost expect to spend at least 20 million on something reasonable. In order to help you with this here's a coupon for 10% off and $200 allowance" ?? It never made sense to me that these bastards employ you as their ace super pilot/deity in some story lines, but if playing strict play and you lose a ship you're going to be the highest ranking official stuck in a shuttle for an hour. Ideally you should have enough of an income and a discount that you could easily hop back into something reasonable if you lose your ship, but it'll take a little while to farm up the cash to completely trick it out with all the bells and whistles.

-Illegal outfits/lisecne system: Make it actually matter. Not just a 45k deposit on a fake and forget about it until you stock up on illegals because you've already maxed your normal Ion Cannons.

-Accomplish all of the above while still keeping Nova's "flavor"(Polaris are just better than everyone, rebels are upgraded feds, aurans fly steel buckets made of hate, etc.)

-Easier access to forms of ships other than the current "THERE IT IS! GET HIM!" method. I like what ship variants does, but i think more unique availability on some planets would go a long way to making the game more interesting rather than hovering around Koria like a recently released sexual offender around a playground.

Bonus goals(May require something other than numbers tweaks):
-Loosen up storyline limits. In short allow access to higher level fed/auroran/polaris/rebel tech without having to get locked into the storyline.

-Smuggling. The most fun trading route in the game is the bioweapons run. The rest feel like grinding out some cash. I'd love to add a few more illegal substances to cart around as a much more interesting and possibly combat oriented way of handling cash shortages.
**

Questions i haven't been asked Frequently:**
Why post this?:
This is not the first time i've had this idea. I have it often, but for one reason or another i never ever get around to it. As my life stands right now I need a hobby, and this sounds fun. I felt that if i actually post a topic as sort of a live changelog/discussion area i'm much more likely to at least attempt this.

Why plug pack?:
In short why not? It's a pretty common plug in among those who play and it adds more stuff for me to just tweak the numbers on because i can't code for beans. Also i feel that along with changes that i'll make to the standard game, certain systems it adds will help me accomplish my above goals.

Will this actually be released?:
There is a 99% chance this is vaporware from the get go. I realize that even without making a map or adding sprites or new bits to toy with this is still an insanely massive project that i'm likely to not finish. That said if anyone with work ethic wants to use anything from this then by all means go for it. Don't even bother asking.

How can I help?:
1. For those that actually know how to use the various EV editing tools i'll probably just bump this topic every now and then with some basic questions. Answers of course will be appreciated. I do plan on searching first, I promise.

2. Since this is a balance plug in on a massive scale I need other players input. I've done some crazy stuff in this game, but i know where my comfort limit lies. I'd like to know what others think is too easy, or too hard. What weapons are too good or too weak. Hell I need to decide if being able to get through the game in a racing viper(somewhat easily) is a reasonable goal or if that's just silly. While i think that may be too far I certainly need a baseline as to what I and others feel would be an acceptable ship to be able to wreck shop in. In short i'll need lots and lots of input, and maybe people trying things they haven't before(when was the last time you tried to fly an enterprise? How about a Pegasus? Maybe a destroyer?).

So then without further ado- CURRENT GOAL :
Get a baseline for what ships are fine as is, and what ships probably need some love. What in short do you guys think is too silly? I personally like the idea of being able to make a battle leviathan, but is that too crazy? How much ass should a player flown anaconda be able to kick? I'll probably make another post in a few days with a long list with every ship in the game, and then work on figuring things out from there.

PS:This all seems murky right now so i'll also clarify later when i buy a new chair for my apartment and won't have to continue typing this on my knees.

This post has been edited by Eji1700 : 27 July 2010 - 11:57 PM

This just off the top of my head, so I might post again later with the rest.

  • PVIV: desperately needs a good nerfing. No way should the AI or the player be allowed to have Achilles personified as a starship.
  • Viper: desperately needs a good boost. I mean, why is it there? Target practice? At the moment it's little more than that pile of crap you step in and have to quietly wipe off your plasma converters.
  • Anaconda/Phoenix: in the splash images for both, they show their respective fighter taking on a much larger ship, an Auroran Cruiser in the case of the Anaconda, a Fed Destroyer in the case of the Phoenix. I want to see that happen in-game, with the AI flying.
  • Carriers of all shapes and sizes: bottom line, they aren't carriers. They're piddly docking platforms with engines on the back. They should be genuine superweapons, something that can take on half a fleet composed of non-carriers on its own before dying or running.
  • Lightning: I've tried using these, and the Wild Geese and Rebels do make some decent variants, but they're not much and so rare to see. To date, I've never seen an AI Rebel Lightning. It's possible I have, but it either left or died before I realized it was there. There should be more to a ship sharing its name with EVC's trickiest fighter.
  • Argosy: yes, it's a science ship. It's still an Auroran design. I want to see these either capable of combat at stock or capable of being turned into a warship without buying a pirate variant.
  • Enterprise: yes, it's a freighter. It's still an Auroran design. I want to see these either capable of combat at stock or capable of being turned into a warship without buying a pirate variant.
  • Manticore variants: the stock Manticore is deadly. The rest, not so much. They should be scarier.
  • Kestrel: it's there as an Easter Egg, but I'd like it to be a reward. An ass-kicking, planet-dominating reward.
  • SSC Corvette: this is from Plug Pack so it counts. I want more from this than an escape pod with weapon mounts and a cockpit.

Eji, I'm betting on that 1%. Don't let me down.

QUOTE (DarthKev @ Jul 27 2010, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This just off the top of my head, so I might post again later with the rest.

  • PVIV: desperately needs a good nerfing. No way should the AI or the player be allowed to have Achilles personified as a starship.
  • Viper: desperately needs a good boost. I mean, why is it there? Target practice? At the moment it's little more than that pile of crap you step in and have to quietly wipe off your plasma converters.
  • Anaconda/Phoenix: in the splash images for both, they show their respective fighter taking on a much larger ship, an Auroran Cruiser in the case of the Anaconda, a Fed Destroyer in the case of the Phoenix. I want to see that happen in-game, with the AI flying.
  • Carriers of all shapes and sizes: bottom line, they aren't carriers. They're piddly docking platforms with engines on the back. They should be genuine superweapons, something that can take on half a fleet composed of non-carriers on its own before dying or running.
  • Lightning: I've tried using these, and the Wild Geese and Rebels do make some decent variants, but they're not much and so rare to see. To date, I've never seen an AI Rebel Lightning. It's possible I have, but it either left or died before I realized it was there. There should be more to a ship sharing its name with EVC's trickiest fighter.
  • Argosy: yes, it's a science ship. It's still an Auroran design. I want to see these either capable of combat at stock or capable of being turned into a warship without buying a pirate variant.
  • Enterprise: yes, it's a freighter. It's still an Auroran design. I want to see these either capable of combat at stock or capable of being turned into a warship without buying a pirate variant.
  • Manticore variants: the stock Manticore is deadly. The rest, not so much. They should be scarier.
  • Kestrel: it's there as an Easter Egg, but I'd like it to be a reward. An ass-kicking, planet-dominating reward.
  • SSC Corvette: this is from Plug Pack so it counts. I want more from this than an escape pod with weapon mounts and a cockpit.

Eji, I'm betting on that 1%. Don't let me down.

Didn't expect to get a reply this fast.

PVIV: Pretty much agree. Too much. I may or may not focus on nerfing depending on how things go. That said after i threw on Q's beam fixes i've begun to loath pirate + chainguns.

Viper/firebird/conda/phoneix: Yep. Now the only question is how much of a boost.

Carries: i so far agree but i'm unsure how to do it and would like to do more testing. I'm going to be screwing around with carriers in general because i think the largest Aur carrier actually has the most physical space of any ship in the game at near 2000 free mass.

Lightning/agsroy/enterprise: Pretty much my thoughts on them.

Manticore: i fear heavy armed mants, but i'll look into them. Especially the light fighter.

Kestrel: If EVula.com is right(haven't linked there in forever) it's got the highest combo of base shields and armor in the game. I'm actually thinking of maybe giving a way to gain access to it other than slaughtering your way through the story, and if i do i don't think it needs a super boost.

SSC: Like the kestrel this thing shines in its stats not it's space or guns. Can't hold much but with 500 shields and armor the damn thing is insanely tanky for something so fast. I may actually weaken it, or attempt to make some variants.

The Ship List:
This will be a list of all the ships in the game, with my current thoughts/plans for it. It'll be my reference point for what needs to be done and will be updated accordingly. Anyone may feel free to argue why i should or shouldn't do something to any ship on the list, and honestly the more help on this part the better.

Notes:
1.For my sanity, and for now, this will be organized in the same manner as EVula's guide. I may later go through and organize it according to the nova data, but god knows it doesn't exactly make a lot of sense.

2. Any ship that lacks input i plan on attempting to fly ingame sometime soon to get a feel for it. That said i'd love any help people can give or thoughts they have. This includes ships i've already got info on, but if you just happen to love flying vipers(or some other ship i don't use) around I would really like to hear your thoughts.

_ Baseline ships:_ These are ships in each ship class(fighter, warship, carrier, etc.) that i feel are well balanced and should be used as a template for tweaking those that need help. I'd love the communities thoughts on this as ideally all ships should eventually end up here.

Fighter:Dunno. Best of the pack is probably the rebel viper.
Heavy fighter: Probably some variant of the thunderhead.
Mid size ships: A ton here. Valk's and Bridge's come to mind right away.
warships: The IDA I feel is an amazing ship all around.
Carriers: Maybe the rebel dragon? Honestly i have trouble with this one as well.

_ **
Freighters:_
**
Cargo Drone
: Might allow you to buy it. Can't see doing much else.

Shuttle: I'm thinking a Fighter/smuggler variant, or a few sets of upgrades designed to allow you to make one.

Heavy Shuttle: same as shuttle.
**
Asteroid Miner** : I always thought a pirate variant of this would be cool, but that would probably hinge on me making a specific outfit for it that allows it to grab other vessels. I would like players to be able to make it much stronger armor wise, so i'll have to look into that.

Star Liner: I may not change anything. I've always found it to be a surprisingly strong ship, but if i do decided to do smuggler variants this will probably get one.

Terrapin: I'm at a loss on what to do with this guy. Do i just leave him be as a terrible flying POS or do i actually try and make it semi viable? If I do again i'll likely go the variant route with less cargo but some actual defense.

Pegasus: I'm thinking the end result should be something similar to the IDA frigate.
**
Leviathan:** I've always thought it'd be cool if you could trick one out into a carrier style ship. There's some upgrades that help with this but i remember feeling that in the end it was too weak even sporting weaponry galore. Imay add a special outfit for large ships like this that for the cost of gun slots allows for much greater mobility(or at least enough that forward facing guns have a purpose.) Then again i'd love to hear ideas for this one.

Valkyrie: I just realized i've never flown a non Gov version of this ship. Input would be appreciated, but i'm assuming it's ok(or at least some of it's variants are).
**
Starbridge:** Maybe some slight buffs through outfit tweaks but i'm not likely to screw with it's base stats. Always has been a good all round ship. I will try to give people a reason to fly one though since it's inferior to the mod bridge.
**
Mod Bridge:** Mod E bridge was my favorite ship for a LONG time. Probably no work required.

_ Neutral Fighters and Warships:_

Racing Viper: I could just boost its armor, or add some form of armor booster, or just add space, or something. I'm not really sure with fighters in general so any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. It's especially hard to buff without it covering roles already filled by say, the lightning. That said i'd rather have it overlap than be useless.

Lightning: Slower viper better guns same problem.

Thunderhead : The light destroyer variant comes with 2 ion cannons giving this fighter almost 100 tons of space. Oddly enough though i'm not sure that cuts it since it sacrifices a lot of speed and still has paper thin armor. I'd appreciate more thoughts on this one.

IDA Frigate: A great ship and something i think is fine. Ideally i'd like most ships to feel like this one. Damn good, flexible, powerful, but not god ships. Likely won't touch it.

Kestrel: My only current change is to actually make this thing available outside of everyones favorite hidden planet. I might have to give it a stat drop though if i do since the shield/armor/mobility combo is insane.

SSC Corvette: The plug pack ship, but i actually like it. Very little space for a ship of its size but ASTOUNDING armor and shields. I might make a few variants just to spice it up though, and allow it to filter into other shipyards than spica.
_ **
Federation:**_
I'd love more input on all of these since i've flown very few of them.

Fed Viper: See racing viper.

Anaconda: I feel it needs something, but for what that is i'm open to suggestions.
**
Scout Ship:** I've honestly never flown one. Opinions appreciated.
**
Patrol Boat:** I think it's fine, but i'd like more opinions again. 2 ion cannons means it's got serious space to screw with and great power.
**
Rage Gunboat** : For the fed's special ship, it feels bleh. Might need something.

Fed Destroyer: Need input.

Fed Carrier: Need input.
_ **
Pirate:**_
Some of the best ships in the game. I plan on trying to screw with the tech tree for all ships and maybe making access take a few more side missions, but that'll be later. Until then don't expect too much for our favorite shuttle killers.

Pirate viper: See racing viper.

Pirate Argosy: One of my favorite ship designs, but i feel its too weak. I'd like some thoughts for buffs.

Pirate Thunderhead: Good ship, but i'm thinking it needs another variant to help its terrible space issues.

Pirate Enterprise: The heavily modified version seems like a wonderful warship, but i'd like to hear from those with more experience.

Pirate valk: If you're having problems in a class IV pirate valk you're still learning the game.

Pirate Bridge: First time i beat the game i took the D version and threw a CPL on it. Nuff said.

Manticore: For something so insanely powerful in the right scenario it kinda needs some love.

Pirate Carrier: I would assume fine, but input would be appreciated.

Unrelenting: Super ships are fine. I might make options to 1. skip it and maybe even 2. get it without the string.
_ **
Vellos**_
For now i'm totally skipping them. I have some ideas to allow one to actually use these guys in game sans story(or hire them), but they're a tricky mess. Thoughts on the subject are appreciated.

_ Auroran_
Overall some good ships, but i feel they're hurt the most by the lack of ways to boost your mobility in nova. I expect many changes for them to come from a few outfit ideas.

Firebird: See racing viper.
**
Phoenix:** See anaconda.
**
Argosy:** I love this ships design, but every time i've tried to use it i've had hell getting it to not suck. More thoughts appreciated but I want this thing able to kick some ass.

Abomination: I rarely fly them but i remember them being quite good. Thoughts appreciated.
**
Enterprise:** Needs love. It doesn't have the space of larger ships, but it has the speed. It's hard to justify as is.

Cruiser: I assume weak but honestly i have no idea.

Aur Carrier: One variant of this toy has almost 1100 tons of space. For reference the unrelenting has 900. I'm thinking the only issues it might have can be solved with some aforementioned cap class outfits like the sigma mass expansion, but instead focused on mobility.
**
Thunderforge:** See unrelenting.
_ **
Rebel:**_
I'll say right now that one major goal of mine is a way to access lower tech rebel ships without doing their story. I'm thinking up to the bridge/valk at least.

Rebel viper: If i do buff vipers i think this will be the one i'm basing it off of. 50 tons on such a small ship lets it really put a dent in the world.

Rebel Lightning: Similar to the stock.

Rebel thunderhead: High power and no armor. I need to test this one.

Rebel Valk: Hello class V
**
Rebel starbridge:** and class E

Rebel IDA: TOTALLY FINE. Amazing ship.

Rebel Destroyer: Need input.

Rebel Dragon: I've heard the carrier variant is an amazing capital ship. Major space with warship mobility. I've never actually managed to test this so input would be nice.
_ **
Polaris:_
We all know the Raven, scarab, and manta, but i'll be looking into some of the other ships for the super race. Like the rebels i do plan on allowing one access to some of their toys without string requirements. Especially the ships. I'd like to see what players would come up with if they had access to polaris ships, but not the crazy powerful weaponry.
**
Sprite:
I have always wanted to do a sprite warship. I'd love to know if anyone else tried and what they thought.
**
Cambrian:** I feel like i'll be treating it like the leviathan.

Polaris Collector: Forgot this was added in the plug pack. Need input.

Manta : While an amazing ship i might actually make a "Captured" variant which has no polaris toys and slightly worse stats, but with more space to play with.

Striker: If anything probably too good.

Zephyr: Needs love. Completely inferior to the striker. Still would like input.

Dragon: I'd like input.

Arachnid: I might make this the strongest polaris ship obtainable without polaris tech, and of course the bonus there being that if you don't sell it it'll be the only one that has a CPL. I plan on stripping the rest of their Biorelays. This would give it a unique niche.

Scarab: FINE

Raven: More than fine.

_ Alien ships:_ I do actually have plans for these little toys, but for now i'll leave them out of the list.

So then feel free to discuss. I'll be updating this post as thoughts change.

This post has been edited by Eji1700 : 29 July 2010 - 10:57 PM

I would like to question you on something. You said that the Rebel Viper is the best of the pack. Are you talking the stock model or the Light Gunboat Class Variant? If it is the LGC, and I know I'm not an AI, but I've taken down a Scarab with one. Which makes it the best...

This post has been edited by Spartan Jai : 29 July 2010 - 11:36 PM

QUOTE (Eji1700 @ Jul 29 2010, 08:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

**
Sprite:** I have always wanted to do a sprite warship. I'd love to know if anyone else tried and what they thought.

Ask Josh Tigerheart. He made one that packed more missiles than all the missile silos in the US combined.

QUOTE (DarthKev @ Jul 27 2010, 10:55 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

  • Manticore variants: the stock Manticore is deadly. The rest, not so much. They should be scarier.

QUOTE (Eji1700 @ Jul 28 2010, 01:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Manticore: i fear heavy armed mants, but i'll look into them. Especially the light fighter.

I personally would suggest that Manticores should be revamped and made a crapload harder (shameless self-promotion, I know :p), because like DarthKev said, the Original variant is probably the most powerful out of all of them. The other variants are technically filler--they just don't have the sheer power/awesomeness because all of their armaments are really lackluster, especially the Light Weapons variant.

QUOTE (Eji1700 @ Jul 28 2010, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

-Easier access to forms of ships other than the current "THERE IT IS! GET HIM!" method. I like what ship variants does, but i think more unique availability on some planets would go a long way to making the game more interesting rather than hovering around Koria like a recently released sexual offender around a playground.

Hahahahahahahahaha...

I'm sorry, that line just kills me.

Which one? There are two good ones there I see.

Eji, I've got some ideas for the Rebel Destroyer. They've always seemed like the powerhouses of the Rebel fleet, packing more weaponry and the most exotic tech (bar the Rebel Dragon) of all Rebel designs. Why not exemplify that? Give them enhanced shielding over the Fed Destroyer? Maybe cut off a little armour (to make room for more shields) but also make it slightly organic (armour regen). And add TBRLs. It never made sense to me that the Rebels could reverse-engineer the Dragon, but not the TBRLs it comes with, instead using only BRLs.

This post has been edited by DarthKev : 30 July 2010 - 06:37 PM

QUOTE (DarthKev @ Jul 30 2010, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which one? There are two good ones there I see.

Eji, I've got some ideas for the Rebel Destroyer. They've always seemed like the powerhouses of the Rebel fleet, packing more weaponry and the most exotic tech (bar the Rebel Dragon) of all Rebel designs. Why not exemplify that? Give them enhanced shielding over the Fed Destroyer? Maybe cut off a little armour (to make room for more shields) but also make it slightly organic (armour regen). And add TBRLs. It never made sense to me that the Rebels could reverse-engineer the Dragon, but not the TBRLs it comes with, instead using only BRLs.

I was talking about the sex offender comment.

What I never understood about the Rebel Dragon was that it can't regenerate armor like the regular Dragon. It says in the ship DESC that they transport the biomaterial straight from Polaris space, so why couldn't the Rebel Dragon be self-regenerating? (Unless the Polaris deliberately sabotaged that to prevent the Federation from getting hold of it from a captured Rebel Dragon.)

Problem with your idea for having the Rebel Destroyer regenerate its armor (at least using reverse-engineered Polaris tech) is that the Dragon and Destroyer use two entirely different technological backgrounds. The Polaris ships are an extension of cybernetic technology (my interpretation based on the ship DESCs and preambles), whereas the Destroyer (and every other ship in the game apart from the Wraith, Vell-os, hyperioids and krypt pods) is a purely mechanical creation. If one was to make the Destroyer regenerate armor, one would need to come up with another explanation (in EVN:UGF, the Axe-tails use nanites).

And who says the Rebels can't coat the armour of their Destroyers in that same biomaterial used for the Dragon? If they can find a way to keep it 'alive' (such as putting certain parts of the Dragon inside it like its 'brain' and 'heart') then it stands to reason it can be used to repair some parts of the hull when damaged.

QUOTE (Spartan Jai @ Jul 29 2010, 09:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to question you on something. You said that the Rebel Viper is the best of the pack. Are you talking the stock model or the Light Gunboat Class Variant? If it is the LGC, and I know I'm not an AI, but I've taken down a Scarab with one. Which makes it the best...

Certainly talking about that one.

QUOTE (DarthKev @ Jul 29 2010, 10:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask Josh Tigerheart. He made one that packed more missiles than all the missile silos in the US combined.

Mentioned the plug to him. Not sure if he'll comment further but the gist of it was "Good luck with that mess". Hopefully i can still get some input on ships.

QUOTE (king_of_manticores @ Jul 29 2010, 10:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I personally would suggest that Manticores should be revamped and made a crapload harder (shameless self-promotion, I know :p), because like DarthKev said, the Original variant is probably the most powerful out of all of them. The other variants are technically filler--they just don't have the sheer power/awesomeness because all of their armaments are really lackluster, especially the Light Weapons variant.

I'll be looking into it, but one thing i'm also planning on doing is serious weapon balance. So do i change the variants or change the weapons? And oddly enough high on the chopping block for "Too damn good" is probably the ion cannon.

QUOTE (DarthKev @ Jul 30 2010, 04:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which one? There are two good ones there I see.

Eji, I've got some ideas for the Rebel Destroyer. They've always seemed like the powerhouses of the Rebel fleet, packing more weaponry and the most exotic tech (bar the Rebel Dragon) of all Rebel designs. Why not exemplify that? Give them enhanced shielding over the Fed Destroyer? Maybe cut off a little armour (to make room for more shields) but also make it slightly organic (armour regen). And add TBRLs. It never made sense to me that the Rebels could reverse-engineer the Dragon, but not the TBRLs it comes with, instead using only BRLs.

Well the rebels certainly can reverse engineer the TBRL since the Rebel IDA gets one. I'll probably make a variant Destroyer with one and just make the TBRL purchasable in the rebel string(unless it already is. It's been a LONG time.).

QUOTE (StarSword @ Jul 31 2010, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was talking about the sex offender comment.

What I never understood about the Rebel Dragon was that it can't regenerate armor like the regular Dragon. It says in the ship DESC that they transport the biomaterial straight from Polaris space, so why couldn't the Rebel Dragon be self-regenerating? (Unless the Polaris deliberately sabotaged that to prevent the Federation from getting hold of it from a captured Rebel Dragon.)

Problem with your idea for having the Rebel Destroyer regenerate its armor (at least using reverse-engineered Polaris tech) is that the Dragon and Destroyer use two entirely different technological backgrounds. The Polaris ships are an extension of cybernetic technology (my interpretation based on the ship DESCs and preambles), whereas the Destroyer (and every other ship in the game apart from the Wraith, Vell-os, hyperioids and krypt pods) is a purely mechanical creation. If one was to make the Destroyer regenerate armor, one would need to come up with another explanation (in EVN:UGF, the Axe-tails use nanites).

Glad you liked the joke.
I may add armor regen to the dragon. It's certainly likely. It's just that the dragon is already an amazing ship from what i recall, and it's hard to justify making it better unless i harm it somewhere else.

QUOTE (DarthKev @ Jul 31 2010, 12:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And who says the Rebels can't coat the armour of their Destroyers in that same biomaterial used for the Dragon? If they can find a way to keep it 'alive' (such as putting certain parts of the Dragon inside it like its 'brain' and 'heart') then it stands to reason it can be used to repair some parts of the hull when damaged.

I don't think i'll do regen armor on the destroyer. Or if i do i'll come up with some other excuse(look new toys!).

As it stands right now it'll be a bit before i get to specific fixes. What i really need right now is a list of ships people think are ok, and a list of ships people think suck no matter what you do, or just don't pack enough punch for what they are. I'm going through with a money cheat plug testing everything i can(Working on civilian ships right now.), but it's going to take awhile for me to get through all of them. So if you feel like suggesting things go right ahead because i'm going to need it, but right now the biggest help would probably be just picking a ship off the list, maxing it out, and then letting me know what you thought of it.

QUOTE (Eji1700 @ Jul 31 2010, 05:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... and a list of ships people think suck no matter what you do ...

Terrapin.

(Although I did get one that was sort of decent once, by taking the good used Terrapin and adding fusion pulse cannons and extra armor.)

And I wouldn't try and make the cargo drone purchasable. The whole idea behind it is that it's a sucky ship that has no crew to get killed when the pirates attack.

QUOTE (DarthKev @ Jul 30 2010, 01:25 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask Josh Tigerheart. He made one that packed more missiles than all the missile silos in the US combined.

Yeah, well, JT's a freaking EVN god. And there probably isn't anything Eji1700 can do to stop Qaanol from beating the game and conquering the galaxy in a (expletive)ing go-cart. (Or was that Josh too? I forget.)

I also think a Cambrian warship, or at least Q-ship would be a good idea. But first you'd have to give it some free mass and additional weapon mounts. I don't know how it got out of development without any expansion room whatsoever.

This post has been edited by StarSword : 02 August 2010 - 10:15 PM

QUOTE (Eji1700 @ Jul 31 2010, 04:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Mentioned the plug to him. Not sure if he'll comment further but the gist of it was "Good luck with that mess".

Yes, that's basically what I said, Nova's a mess. However, to add, I probably wouldn't be much help on a project like this unless I was doing the sole balance work. I don't balance based on numbers and data, I balance based on feel. For me, whether the ship feels right or not while I'm flying, fighting, or observing it it will tell me much more about what tweaks it needs than comparing stats. This, of course, doesn't result in perfect balance, but nothing more complicated than checkers ever will no matter how you do it. But, hence, I can't look at whatever is being planned for X and say if that's what it needs or not without actually trying whatever you planned. And even then, I might not draw the balance line in the same place.

Though, now that it pops into my head, I'll throw out a couple of thoughts.

First, I strongly suggest that, if you're going to tweak weapons and outfits, do those before you even touch more than a few ships. You may get every ship and its variant all nice and balanced by doing those first, but the moment you change the stat or behavior on anything out there and you've just thrown the whole thing out of whack again. So, worry about ships later if you're going to tweak weapons too.

Second, pick a ship that, to you, is the absolutely, positively most average in ALL areas to you. Combat, commerce, traveling, armament, everything. Use this as a sort of baseline so you better know where everything else is. Make it the first ship you tweak and get right, make sure that it feels just right. And if you need to make any major changes across the board, modify it first. This will hopefully make things easier on you in the long run since you have so many ships to modify. You could also do this on a smaller scale for each type of ship and its variants. Pick whichever one has the middle-line performance of the set and work from there.

Third, don't worry too much about what players would do. Obviously, if you find things that you can do that you don't like, then fix it. But don't sit there and try to come up with everything a player could do to throw things out of whack. That's what a small group of beta testers are for and they'll both find more things and find things faster than you ever could alone, simply because there's more of them than you.

And fourth, it never hurts to create some extra systems, missions, and planets just for testing. Create an easy to reach system that sells everything and a few missions that pit you against x ship or y govt against z govt and just edit those missions when you want to check something else. It'll save you lots of time rather than trying to find what you're looking for. Just make sure to remove access to this area before you release.

Fifth, don't use any sort of cheat that's related to what you're testing. If you're testing income rate, don't give yourself cash. If you're testing combat, don't give yourself extra or uber weapons/outfits. And so on.

And finally, sixth, screw around just for the heck of it. It helps against burn out. One time I added the Terran Battlecruiser from Starcraft to Colosseum for kicks and giggles. Sure, I wasn't making any real progress, but it kept my interest in the project and relieved some of the burn. Heck, that's how Spaceball made it into Colosseum, so sometimes it can even result in great additions. Just don't screw around too much or you'll get nothing done.

This post has been edited by JoshTigerheart : 01 August 2010 - 10:37 PM

QUOTE (Eji1700 @ Jul 31 2010, 02:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll be looking into it, but one thing i'm also planning on doing is serious weapon balance. So do i change the variants or change the weapons? And oddly enough high on the chopping block for "Too damn good" is probably the ion cannon.

It depends. If you were also designing this plug-in to be compatible with Qaanol's Plug-In Fixes as well then I'd say adjust the latter.

8 Ion Cannons won't do much in stock Nova except give you a good 175 tons of extra space, which could be implemented for much more improved variants. I'm pretty sure a stock Manticore should only have 5-6, tops.

I think he meant Ion Cannons + Qaanol's Fix.

QUOTE (Eji1700 @ Jul 30 2010, 03:26 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fed Carrier: Need input.

Is there anything that you can do about its appearance. The damn thing looks like open cardboard box with armor to match and engines super glued to the back. Also can you please increase the amount of anacondas each bay can carry because I seriously doubt the whole half of the ship can only hold and maintain two vipers with missile pylons.

Very short quick sweet update:
Real life hit hard(and at least in a good way) just after i started this. I still plan on doing work on it and responding to everything said with more detail, but it's going to be a bit before i have the free time to do so correctly. I have a job to attempt to get and a place to move out of and another one to move into.

QUOTE (ReclusiveOne @ Aug 3 2010, 07:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Is there anything that you can do about its appearance. The damn thing looks like open cardboard box with armor to match and engines super glued to the back. Also can you please increase the amount of anacondas each bay can carry because I seriously doubt the whole half of the ship can only hold and maintain two vipers with missile pylons.

You know, I actually agree with Reclusive here about the number of Anacondas. I disagree with his opinion on the look, however. I rather like the look of the Fed Carrier, it harkens back to modern US naval aircraft carriers, but in space.

Although, I don't think the Anaconda count should be increased too much while still making it carry only 4 Vipers. Compared to Auroran Carriers, Fed Carriers are lacking in terms of fighter complements. Maybe extend them to 6 or 8 Vipers and 4 or 6 Anacondas. Maybe even more. The Carrier Variant Fed Destroyer should also get a small boost to its fighter complement, methinks.

QUOTE (DarthKev @ Sep 9 2010, 05:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know, I actually agree with Reclusive here about the number of Anacondas. I disagree with his opinion on the look, however. I rather like the look of the Fed Carrier, it harkens back to modern US naval aircraft carriers, but in space.

Although, I don't think the Anaconda count should be increased too much while still making it carry only 4 Vipers. Compared to Auroran Carriers, Fed Carriers are lacking in terms of fighter complements. Maybe extend them to 6 or 8 Vipers and 4 or 6 Anacondas. Maybe even more. The Carrier Variant Fed Destroyer should also get a small boost to its fighter complement, methinks.

As a long-time plug developer (usually for personal plugs, though I did release one somewhere), I'd actually recommend against this. There is (or at least, used to be) a blatant cheat, that I don't know if everyone understands, that involves using fighters to blow the limit of ships in a system and cause planets to surrender instantly, rather than send out their defense fleet. It might have gotten bug-tweaked down so that they'll only send out as many ships as can be in a system at any one time, or send out ships one at a time until they're all taken down. In any event, it's really easy to start swamping a system with ships when you start adding lots of fighters to any ship.

I would rather see that the fighters were cheapened to reflect their combat effectiveness, or increased in power somehow to make them worthwhile. The EVN engine still has pretty strict limitations on ship count, and so large amounts of fighters are usually a no-no. I know the stock engine has many bays, and that you can get several ships from each, but you usually can't buy all the military bays at once.

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