Any way to disable these in Classic?

MissionComputer isn't sufficient for this.

There's two things in EV Classic that are there which I believe are part of the programming...however, if possible, I'd like to remove them. Unfortunately, I'd have no idea how to do this, so I'll simply describe what they are.

1. When the player completes a mission that rewards the player with an outfit at the mission's completion, the player's ammunition will be reloaded to whatever the player had the last time he was at an outfitter or stole ammo from a ship he boarded. Is there any way to disable this feature? (No, I do not want to use "outfit at mission start" - if the player already has at least 1 of the outfit, outfit at mission start does not give another one)

2. The "cannot sell this item" flag can be checked for ammunition, but when it comes to selling ammunition, you can still do it anyways. Is there any way to make this flag REALLY work for ammunition?

That's all. =/

1. This is odd, to say the least. I can't seem to replicate it. How, exactly, are you programming this?

2. Ammunition must be sellable. As best I understand it, the way the engine interprets this flag is that the outfit cannot be removed from the player unless via a deletion command in the mission programming. In MacNova, the engine seems to interpret the bug and fix it for you, much like assumed reciprocal hyperlinks. In WinNova, the outfit will simply not work in the game. When ammunition is used by the weapon, it actually treats the outfit the same as if it is sold by the player (minus the fact that you get no money for it.) I ran across this issue when trying to create a shuttlebay for the Firefly. I did not want the player to be able to sell the shuttles. Until I unchecked the flag, I could not get the shuttlebay to function at all.

krugeruwsp, note that ThoraxAntburner is asking about EVC, not EVN.

I'm assuming he's talking about the Nova EVC port. Otherwise, I doubt he'd be using Mission Computer.

Edit: Actually, that could be part of the problem. If he's using Mission Computer to edit resources for old-school EV Classic, it wouldn't work well.

This post has been edited by krugeruwsp : 17 February 2010 - 07:48 PM

Why shouldn't MissionComputer work well for EV Classic? (yes, I'm using real EV Classic, NOT a Nova port of it) MissionComputer has worked perfectly for me in every manner for EVC. The only places in which MissionComputer "fails" is where the help descriptions are fallacious, not because the game's engine isn't manipulated properly by MissionComputer.

True. As David Arthur himself has said, Mission Computer is a Mac-based scenario editor for all three EV Games, not just EVN. Mission Computer works fine for making plug-ins and even entire TCs for any of the EV Games, minus any custom graphics of course.

Back on topic, I'm not sure how to remove that first 'feature', Thorax. I'm pretty sure you're stuck with that one. For the second 'feature', making ammo unsell-able, there is a way to do that in EVN, but not EVC. Sorry.

Blast. =/ I'd happily pay $20 again for EV to have these things fixed...haha. (really, Nova's features are cool, but...I really do hate Nova 😞 ) (And Nova doesn't have the double range and +75% ammo for comps!)

Well, thanks for letting me know that this isn't doable! I'll just have to exercise self-control...
(this meaning, without being able to remove these things, this plug is prone to abuse...and any other solution isn't very practical, so I'll just have to deal with it)

See you!

Wait, why do you need to pay $20 again if you're using plug-ins and obviously have already registered EVC? If you've already registered it, you should be able to download any updates are available from Ambrosia's site. Look in the 'Older Games' section of the 'Games' section. I believe EVC and EVO are still there.

QUOTE (darthkev @ Feb 17 2010, 10:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wait, why do you need to pay $20 again if you're using plug-ins and obviously have already registered EVC? If you've already registered it, you should be able to download any updates are available from Ambrosia's site. Look in the 'Older Games' section of the 'Games' section. I believe EVC and EVO are still there.

He's saying that he'd like things that are currently broken in the current versions on this website to be fixed, and he'd be willing to pay again to get those fixes.

QUOTE (ThoraxAntburner @ Feb 17 2010, 09:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why shouldn't MissionComputer work well for EV Classic?

No reason that I can think of. A few of the most recent editors are for EV Nova only, but it edited the first two games well before I added Nova support in version 2.0. I'm no longer going significantly out of my way to support GameTypes 0 and 1 in new editors and features, but all the old editors are still there. (The new shïp and wëap editors, for example, are Nova -only, but there are still RDL templates for the older games.)

If I were going to drop support for Escape Velocity and EV Override , I would have done it at version 4.0. Now that I've gone through and updated all those editors to run in the new framework, there wouldn't be any more reason to drop them, and any malfunction I can find is still a bug I would consider worth fixing.

On the other hand, MissionComputer is ultimately an editor for the EV format rather than a game-creation tool, so I can't do anything about it if the engine won't co-operate in one of your ideas. MissionComputer's editors support all the valid fields in any given resource type, so if you can't achieve a certain effect, it isn't likely to be caused by lack of access to a particular engine feature.

Ah, well, I stand corrected then. I figured with all the engine changes to Nova that some of those flags might not be interpreted well or at all by the classic engine.

QUOTE (krugeruwsp @ Feb 18 2010, 12:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I figured with all the engine changes to Nova that some of those flags might not be interpreted well or at all by the classic engine.

Yes, that's quite true. In many cases I need to supply completely separate editors for the EV Nova and traditional versions of a resource type, or failing that at least make the editor behave quite differently according to which GameType has been passed. (The differences between Escape Velocity and EV Override are minimal by comparison.)

When I added support for the original Escape Velocity in version 1.3 (released eight years ago this Sunday) I anticipated that Nova support would be desirable after that game was released, and so laid in a complete system of GameType tracking that allows the programme to edit several quite different formats. In theory MissionComputer could even be extended to support a game that had nothing to do with Escape Velocity , as long as its format was ultimately based on the resource fork.

Huh. Well there you have it. Learn something new every day.

Back on topic, do you have the information you requested, Thorax, even if it's not what you wanted to hear? 🙂

Yes, I do DarthKev, and I think everyone for their help. 😃 As I said, I'll just have to make "self-rules" that govern how I ought to play the game, even though there's no forcible part of the game causing it to run a certain way. By that I might analogize: we know that we ought not to cheat on our spouses, but we can still do it. (Will power will power!)

In any case, I ought to make one comment to Mr. Arthur.

QUOTE

MissionComputer's editors support all the valid fields in any given resource type, so if you can't achieve a certain effect, it isn't likely to be caused by lack of access to a particular engine feature.

Actually, MissionComputer seems to be missing ppat for Classic...

EDIT: I should also mention that I never, -EVER- use MissionComputer to do graphics work or anything in PICT, for three reasons.
1. If you add or change anything, it takes 2000 years to complete the change after you have about 200 PICTs.
2. Scrolling scrolls at 1/1000 normal scrolling rate.
3. Whenever something is added or changed, it always automatically moves the view to the very first PICT that exists, regardless of what PICT you were working on, so you need to find your place every time.

I use ResEdit. I'm done in 20 seconds.

This post has been edited by ThoraxAntburner : 19 February 2010 - 10:40 PM

QUOTE (ThoraxAntburner @ Feb 19 2010, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By that I might analogize: we know that we ought not to cheat on our spouses, but we can still do it. (Will power will power!)

Not all of us cheat on our spouses! Some of us don't have one yet! 😛

QUOTE (ThoraxAntburner @ Feb 19 2010, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. If you add or change anything, it takes 2000 years to complete the change after you have about 200 PICTs.

Not sure what you mean here.

QUOTE (ThoraxAntburner @ Feb 19 2010, 07:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

3. Whenever something is added or changed, it always automatically moves the view to the very first PICT that exists, regardless of what PICT you were working on, so you need to find your place every time.

Not quite true, at least not in the latest version for OS X. After the viewer goes back to the top, just hit one of the arrow keys and it goes back to where you were since whatever you had selected is still selected. Not sure if the latest version for Classic has this, though.

Now, when you delete something, that's another matter. If you remember the IDs of everything, you can simply type it in and find what you're looking for that way, but again, I don't know if the latest version of Mission Computer for Classic has this.

This post has been edited by darthkev : 19 February 2010 - 10:58 PM

QUOTE

Not all of us cheat on our spouses! Some of us don't have one yet! 😛

I don't have a spouse, either. 😛 Still, you get the point. 😉

QUOTE

Not sure what you mean here.

Basically, once there's enough PICTs, MissionComputer will lag every time something is added, deleted, or changed, and the lag becomes longer the more stuff is added. This simply doesn't exist in any other EV Editor I have.

QUOTE

Not quite true, at least not in the latest version for OS X. After the viewer goes back to the top, just hit one of the arrow keys and it goes back to where you were since whatever you had selected is still selected. Not sure if the latest version for Classic has this, though.

Now, when you delete something, that's another matter. If you remember the IDs of everything, you can simply type it in and find what you're looking for that way, but again, I don't know if the latest version of Mission Computer for Classic has this.

Ah, good point. It's funny how the simplest things are sometimes overlooked...I still wouldn't use MissionComputer for graphics anyways, but this is useful nonetheless. Thanks for the enlightenment!

This post has been edited by ThoraxAntburner : 20 February 2010 - 10:44 AM

QUOTE (ThoraxAntburner @ Feb 19 2010, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, MissionComputer seems to be missing ppat for Classic...

Yes, by 'all' I meant all of the game's own resource types, not all of the standard resource types you'll find in the Escape Velocity application (most of which are well beyond the scope of a scenario editor). I may have a cicn editor someday, but ppat is highly unlikely.

QUOTE (ThoraxAntburner @ Feb 19 2010, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

1. If you add or change anything, it takes 2000 years to complete the change after you have about 200 PICTs.
2. Scrolling scrolls at 1/1000 normal scrolling rate.

It sounds like your computer is a bit slow for the graphical picker. You can turn it off, either from the Resource menu or the Preferences window, and get the same text-based picker for graphics as for every other type of resource. I've been increasing both the optimisation and the capabilities of the graphical picker in each new version, but its performance on old computers will never be a priority.

QUOTE (ThoraxAntburner @ Feb 19 2010, 10:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

3. Whenever something is added or changed, it always automatically moves the view to the very first PICT that exists, regardless of what PICT you were working on, so you need to find your place every time.

What version are you using? I can't immediately replicate this in 4.0.7.

Don't worry about the third of these, Darth gave me the solution to that one. 😉

As for the graphics...I'm running the best comp that can still run the real OS9, so by most standards, this is a slow computer I suppose.

Thanks! 🙂

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