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I think I'll announce what I'm doing... on Monday. Or Tuesday. Maybe.
@starbridge21, on Sep 14 2007, 06:53 PM, said in What kind of TC do you want?:
Example 3: Halo. I haven't got an X-Box, but the legendary Halo games cannot escape use in an example. Excellent story. Crazy awesome gameplay... so I hear. Game of the Year? Heck yes. Supposedly the best FPS game ever made. It didn't earn those titles with an uninteresting story or repetitive gameplay. It had balance. And it was awesome. Very yes. Possibly it can do it nine times.(/b)
Correction: Halo is the second best FPS ever made. Game play in Halo is great, but the plot only holds a candle to Marathon.
@gray-shirt-ninja, on Sep 14 2007, 11:45 PM, said in What kind of TC do you want?:
Thank you, fellow Marathon enthusiast.
Quote
Example 3: Halo. I haven't got an X-Box, but the legendary Halo games cannot escape use in an example. Excellent story. Crazy awesome gameplay... so I hear. Game of the Year? Heck yes. Supposedly the best FPS game ever made. It didn't earn those titles with an uninteresting story or repetitive gameplay. It had balance. And it was awesome. Very yes. Possibly it can do it nine times.
Listen to this genius! HALO RULZ D00D!
But, seriously. Millions of people pre-ordered Halo 3. And do you think they did it for the gameplay? No sirree, they went in for the plot.
Halo 3's sales still won't hold a candle to Super Mario Brothers (40.23 million sold*), Tetris (33 million), Pokemon RGB (20.08 million**), Super Mario World (20 million), and Super Mario Brothers 3 (18 million). Whereas Halo and Halo 2 have sold 5 million and 9.2 million, respectively. Looking at the list, it's clear that the best selling games aren't very big on story (and are all on Nintendo consoles coincidentally, but that's aside the point). Not to mention, as of this post, twice as many voters have chosen gameplay over story in the Nova Boards version of this poll, though 70% don't care and will play whatever is released. Given, there's only been 10 votes thus far...
Again why I stress gameplay. Even though this is a Nova TC we're talking about, it is also still a game.
Though I think the main reason I posted this post was just to show that Halo's figures aren't anything special.
*Top selling bundled game **Top selling unbundled game
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best_...and_video_games
To be frank, I think that it's a sad comment on modern society, that a game like Halo sells less than a mindless adventure game like Super Mario Brothers. I think that gaming is a media, just as books are a media. There's no reason why a game can't have a story as good as that of a good book, a story that grips, a story that makes you want to play. Of course, Halo sells to a niche market, also. SMB sells to ALL age groups, including kids, so don't forget to consider that.
@shlimazel, on Sep 15 2007, 11:38 AM, said in What kind of TC do you want?:
No sirree, they went in for the plot.
There's no way to prove that, and it's a debatable statement.
Actually, saying that people are only buying an action game for the plot was intended to be a joke.
There's also no way to prove that I'm not very thick headed. Sorry.
Anyone who voted "I don't care, if a TC was made today I'd play it regardless" is about to get their wish. Ashen Galaxy just went Beta. Which is a big thing for a EVN TC.
Ohhh grats GSN! That's been a long and work-intensive project! Can't wait!
While we're quoting statistics, I consider it interesting to consider the top ten sellers list for PC games (including Mac/Linux/etc, but not gaming consoles). The Sims (16 million) The Sims 2 (13 million) StarCraft (9.5 million) World of Warcraft (9 million current customers, which is different from box sales) Half-Life (8 million) Myst (6 million) The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (4 million, including Xbox release) RollerCoaster Tycoon (4 million in North America) Diablo II (4 million) Half-Life 2 (4 million)
I'd say these represent a much healthier balance of gameplay and story than the lists of console games. Starcraft, for example, is widely regarded as the standard of gameplay for it's genre, but its campaigns had a compelling and in-depth story And as for Myst... well... no words on my part are needed.
(all stats from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-...ng_video_games)
Hmm, those figures have restored my faith in society... Thanks, Otter.
Games may be media, but they're a different kind of media. Just like how music is a different media than TC shows are. Heck, a shirt that says "Future Millionaire" is media. Do songs and shirts need plot? No. Games are a different form of media and are primarily for entertainment. People who are interested in deep plot read books first and foremost, though not even all story-books have any real plot. If you're looking for that plot, the gaming world is not the first place you should be looking...or the second...and probably not the third either (I'd put movies and then TV before games, in that order).
I think your defintion of media is a bit too narrow.
And I think it's sad The Sims are at the top. But at least it's now WoW up there...or, worse, Second Life.
This post has been edited by JoshTigerheart : 17 September 2007 - 10:23 AM
Possibly, but not in this context. My opinion here boils down to this;
You can have the best freakin' action game in the bloody universe, but it will never be described as 'Epic' (i.e, an awe inspiring, emotion stirring game full of plot twists and drama) unless the story is equal to the gameplay. Look at the difference between Republic Commando and Halo. The former is probably one of the best action games ever, but it cannot by any means be described as 'Epic'. The later has story to match its awesome gameplay, and could very easily be described as 'Epic'.
I aim to have a very immersive TC which combines action and story. I have no illusions about my writing skills, so I'm not expecting epic right off the bat, but I hope to achive a happy medium between having a fantasticly written TC with absolutely no replay value and a highly replayable, enjoyable TC. But the most important thing to do is to first GET IT DONE! Like I said fairly early on in my development thread, all I need to do is release the TC and everyone will agree that that is awesome.
Do songs and s###s need plot?
Remember Josh, always double-check your posts
Just because it's harder to make an epic storyline in the computer game media format than, say, the written word or film formats, does not mean it's not a worthy goal, or that it cannot be immensely successful. (points at Myst series).
I agree,though, that the popularity of The Sims is a bit sad.
I agree too. It's because people have no lives. They should all play EVN instead.
Well, you can look at it this way as well. Epic doesn't necessarily mean it is good or appealing. The Illiad is an epic, but it's boring as <insert your expletive of choice here>. On the other hand, the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a great read, but not considered "epic".
View of the companies: "Who cares if they consider the game epic as long as it sells millions of copies?"
Not saying that making an "epic" storyline for a game is pointless, but from my understanding most "epic" games that sell well don't rely on their "epicness" alone. Halo had the gameplay to support it's story, whereas Halo 2 sold a bunch from hype but seems to get regularly trashed for watering down the story and gameplay (just ask some people over at Just Games, I've never played it short of a few multiplayer matches). Most deliberete(sp?) attempts to making something epic usually don't work, as it comes across as someone trying too hard. My experience as a writer tells me that, if you want something epic, just write a good solid story and see if it winds up that way. Better to have something solid and enjoyable than a poor epic.
And zapp, you saw nothing.
Not saying that making an "epic" storyline for a game is pointless, but from my understanding most "epic" games that sell well don't rely on their "epicness" alone.
No, I wasn't saying that they did. Halo wouldn't have been "epic" if it didn't have equally good gameplay.
whereas Halo 2 sold a bunch from hype but seems to get regularly trashed for watering down the story and gameplay
They did what!?!?! Dogs! They deserve to be dragged over burning coals for that little bit of heresy!!
Better to have something solid and enjoyable than a poor epic.
That is very true. Just look at all the people who tried to rip off the lord of the rings trilogy. Those were 'poor epics'.
deliberete(sp?)
Deliber a te.