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Originally posted by Martin Turner ...Eye of Orion and Angels of Vengeance, not to mention Clavius and Beyond, Battle Velocity/Oreste, Pale, and, if might be so bold as to mention, Frozen Heart and Femme Fatale.
These have been ported for the Nova engine? Right on! Anyone have a link to download 'em?
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No Slouch, you may not have noticed but this is the Developer's Board for all three game engines - it is not an EVN specific board. If you are serious about writing a great plugin, you need to get hold of the EV and EVO games and play those plugins. Unlike Nova, you can play them plugins without registering first.
------------------ M A R T I N T U R N E R (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url) (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)
I am Very well aware that there was an EV and an EVO. Back in those days, though, I didnt really understand that storylines could be fun too, and just flew around blowing up pirates, trading, and the like. I never had access to a working mac long enough to get tired of that and try storylines. Once my last mac died a few years ago, i couldnt play EVO anymore. Although now I realize the importance of storylines and like them and all, its really hard for me to play the old EV's (please, dont tell me to buy a mac. I couldnt keep it running, and i couldnt afford it). Unless, that is, the classic plugs get ported to nova. The new generation of plugin makers you refer to is going to include more and more PC users. Since EVC and EVO are mac only and as i recall Basilisk II wont support EVO, the options for PC plugin developers to learn from the classics is, well, rather limited. -Az
------------------ It is here. EVNEW Public Beta (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW")www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW(/url) Stuffit is a piece of .sit.
Err, I had noticed. I thought this topic was specifically referring to EVN plugs/TCs. My mistake. I'll get a hold of those plugs when I get a hold of a Mac. There's really no need for the condescending attitude. I was genuinely excited that they may have been ported.
People have successfully played EVO plugins (including the big ones) on Basilisk.
Of course, you can do your unofficial port through EVONE or get a Mac user to do it for you. You wouldn't be allowed to release them, and they wouldn't entirely work, although the plot side should be good enough to get a hang of how it all used to be done.
For my money the most successful plot based plugins were Angels of Vengeance and Eye of Orion, both for EV. They would be where I would (and did) start.
You could also do worse than playing through the other two TCs for Nova - the ports of EVC and EVO.
Hold up a moment. Both EV and EVO are available as Nova TCs-----the kind that replace the Nova data files, not the kind you put in the plugins folder.
In theory, they should have all the same resource numbers as the "real" EV and EVO.
So, why not put the EV/O TC data files into the "Nova Files" folder, and then put the TC files you want to play into the "Plugins" folder? Would that work?
Originally posted by Lindley: **Hold up a moment. Both EV and EVO are available as Nova TCs-----the kind that replace the Nova data files, not the kind you put in the plugins folder.
**
Nope. If only. The data structures are different. There are more fields for some resources, sometimes stuck into the middle of the resource. It wouldnt approach working. EVC/O used spins for graphics, EVN uses shans, EVC/O used pict sprites, EVN prefers RLEs, EVC/O didnt have different roid types, so what goes ito the roid flag field? And So On..... Moreover, i think nova expects the linked descs/outfit picts to be in different places than EVC/O did. Sorry. -Az
Which reminds me...is Port Authority ever going to be released to the public? Does anyone know what's happening with it?
Martin Turner's working on an update of FH and FF as well as a new plotline for EVN, but he doesn't know when he'll be done (if ever). If he does finish and release it, everyone who is trying to write a plotline should play through it (I know that I'm trying to match his quality of work, although I still have quite a bit of work to do).
Kind of funny...my expectations for Retribution in terms of sheer size aren't that high, only because of other things on my agenda ;).
------------------ Retribution: An Upcoming Plug-in for EVN. Visit the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=20&SUBMIT;=Go")Chronicles(/url) today! Be sure to read the short story ' (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/newsdisplay.cgi?action=topics &number;=20&forum;=*EV/EVO+chronicles&DaysPrune;=100&article;=000262&startpoint;=")Fiery Descent(/url)'! (url="http://"http://www.cwssoftware.com")Sephil Saga(/url): An upcoming TC, visit the web page today.| | | Both the best and the worst plug-in editor for Windows! (url="http://"http://www.aznt.com/EVN/EVNEW")EVNEW(/url)!
(This message has been edited by UE_Research & Development (edited 01-24-2004).)
Martin Turner: That statement should be amended. I don't feel all plug-in's have bad storylines, but a majority of them do. Your TC's would be exceptions to that generalized statement as would others.
Tiresmoke: I should ignore your misinformed calumny but I'm feeling bored after the SAT today so I think I'll reply. Do you know what plug-in's I've played? Or even which games in the EV series I've played? Or how long I've played them? How long have you even been aware of my existance? I believe the answers would be no, no, no, and since the moment I started the thread. Well, at least you put in a little disclaimer. Unfortunately, it's rather idiotic to make it after you started off as "Obviously,.." For the record, I've played through all 3 games, most of the major EVO plug-in's, and the only TC out for Nova right now. And yes, I finished all major storylines in them without cheating.
Wow, you've spent hours editing the game. You're entitled to be immune to any form of criticism, right? I really don't my commentary was disrespectful. It was a generalized statement. You take the liberty of applying it to Frozen Heart or Femme Fatale instead of stuff like Clavicus and Beyond. Wouldn't you think there's a huge difference between those two categories?
Right, null commentary. I think there's a rather large dearth of logic in your post. Adding comments like "Just leave kids to their own devices..." Just because you're older, you think yourself superior to me? Right, dream on. Additionally use proper grammar. And just be a little less conservative.
Just to clarify, I never said I had issues with ALL TC's or plug-in's. I said "the primary issue..." That statement is completely true. I apologize if any of you felt that I meant it as a label for all plug-in's. As I said before, there are good ones like the FH things. And there are ones with bad plots or poor conversion from an outside source.
------------------ "Veni, Vidi, Vici" "I came, I saw, I conqeured." Julius Caeser
Considering there's been exactly one TC released for Nova- Polycon, I think it's a little early to discuss EVN TC issues. Perhaps add-on strings, because most of them are poorly written, but there's a major difference between an add-on string and a TC.
Or perhaps you have issues with EV series TCs in general. Just play Femme Fatale or Frozen Heart, and see if you still hold problems with the supposed fact that the majority of TCs possess contrived and trite plots and sloppily written dialogue. And as Martin Turner said, EVC has its own very good plug-ins. So...one out of four or five doesn't make for a very convincing argument that a primary issue plaguing TCs involves badly written content. Of course, this doesn't apply to add-on strings. EDIT: Of course, you have the porno TCs. But that's a whole different depredation :D. And I think that there was only one.
And while we're on the subject, why don't you try making your own? It doesn't have to be a massive 2000-system job, maybe just a well-written, polished add-on string for something that already exists.
As for my own writing...you'd have to ask some other people if you wanted to know how proficient I am in creative writing, narrative, and technical writing. I suggest you check out the story link in the signature, as it'll probably give you the clearest impression as of yet possible of my own writing. Possibly important, as this writing could possibly appear in TCs in the future :).
...dedicated developer working with a dedicated graphics guy who can stay on task...
Originally posted by UE_Research & Development: **Considering there's been exactly one TC released for Nova- Polycon, I think it's a little early to discuss EVN TC issues. Perhaps add-on strings, because most of them are poorly written, but there's a major difference between an add-on string and a TC.
Read the post above yours. (ie, mine. :-))
I did:
but a majority of them do.
"the primary issue..."
---
Considering there's been exactly one TC released for Nova- Polycon, I think it's a little early to discuss EVN TC issues.
So...one out of four or five doesn't make for a very convincing argument that a primary issue plaguing TCs involves badly written content. Of course, this doesn't apply to add-on strings.
So, my point still stands for TCs, but it really never applied to add-on strings. Even if you feel that way, I can still try to change your opinion by releasing a TC with a plot that's not as trite or badly-written as most others, eh?
I have to agree with the statements about badly written plots in add-on strings and them not being enjoyable. I put World of the Wraith down after playing it for three minutes because of the plot. And any plug with a story spanning more than 4 missions needs an outline, if not three or four for different aspects.
Originally posted by UE_Research & Development: **I did:
You think Babylon 5 was a good conversion? Star Wars? Remember that mission where you were supposed to defeat the Dreadnoughts? And had to do it multiple times in order to kill all the ships? That really ticked me off. Again, I reiterate that I said TC's and plug-in's. FH and FF were the only ones I really thought memorable. Then in Polycon, we have Draconnen technology available in Polycon space. You can complete all major strings with the same pilot...even those on both sides. Systems still look hostile after Vecon takes over the IRS planets. Yeah, I think you get the point. If you release a TC with a creative, entertaining plug-in, my opinion will still stand that most plug-in's suck but hey, I welcome another fun TC. It may not help my GPA but it should be enjoyable. Again, if another few TC's are good, then I would be swayed. And yes, I am in the process of making a TC. Knowing the issues associated with plug-in's, I'm taking my time to come up with ideas and plan this whole thing out.
Hmm...I didn't think either really counted as a TC, considering that they weren't finished. But like you said, yes, many of them suck. And I talked about Polycon earlier on, did I not?
Ah well, I'm always in need of consultants ;). And good luck on your TC. And my GPA is perfectly fine, and can't go up anymore, so I think I'll have some fun writing and coding in the future.
I'm finding my university course easy enough, and my other student activities (such as drinking, partying, and parachuting) aren't actually filling all my free time. Hence, I think The Resurgence is about to get restarted.
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.mazca.com/")mazca(/url) (url="http://"http://mailto:mazca@mazca.com%5b/url")mazca(/url), king of pork eaten with a knife and fork
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.mazca.com/")mazca(/url) mazca, king of pork eaten with a knife and fork
(This message has been edited by Mazca (edited 01-24-2004).)
Originally posted by zhouj: **Tiresmoke: I should ignore your misinformed calumny but I'm feeling bored after the SAT today so I think I'll reply. Do you know what plug-in's I've played? Or even which games in the EV series I've played? Or how long I've played them? How long have you even been aware of my existance? I believe the answers would be no, no, no, and since the moment I started the thread. Well, at least you put in a little disclaimer. Unfortunately, it's rather idiotic to make it after you started off as "Obviously,.." For the record, I've played through all 3 games, most of the major EVO plug-in's, and the only TC out for Nova right now. And yes, I finished all major storylines in them without cheating.
I am well able to draw my own conclusions based on the content of your recents posts. They are all negative towards any development. Your welcome though to comment all you care on my grammer as I have already stated in other topics; I am not an English major but just a dumb Race Car Driver. All I care about is learning to edit the game and to have some fun with other good people who enjoy doing the same. That is my only reason to even be here at all. Still and all that does not preclude that I or any other developer here can not take offense when hearing all this negative energy you exude in your topics.
My suggestion towards your attitude is that if you don't care what others have done for the community for free and on their own time then make your own and leave off with all the bad press.
But hey your welcome to say what you like about me and I will give you full permission to do so. I will not even feel hurt as just as much as I don't know you that goes both ways and I don't expect we will ever share a table for a meal.
------------------ Nothing like the smell of burnt rubber in the morning. - Now let's see some Tiresmoke! (url="http://"http://www.rsdg.net")www.rsdg.net(/url)
You know I have stated this all quite poorly and in fact it does not follow my usual easy going attitude towards other people's opinions. I am the new guy here and as such should not allow myself to get caught up in arguements as that is not why I am here.
So simply put, zhouj, I apologize for my statements to ignore you and that your just some kid. I will reserve my judgement for you in a private manner in the future. And if I continue to see you post in a negative manner it is my option to ignore any of those statements rather than to respond.
I am not here for your benifit but rather for mine and the fact that I want to learn this game and edit it has not changed due to negative responces. Just the same it is my hope that you start encouraging folks rather than to put them down for the effort they put forward and become more tolerant for those without your obvious level of education and taste.
I am here to enjoy editing the game and I would rather be positive about what comes along than to put someone down for their opinions.
Golly. All this seems to have got suddenly bad tempered (except for Mazca, who has the benefit of studying in the world's best county).
Re: Clavius and Beyond. As it happens I was the main proof reader on that project, and word-smithed quite a lot of the text. I thought it had a good storyline, although some of the 'adult' content was a direction I wouldn't want to go in.
Re: EVO plugins in general - there were fewer plugins for EVO than for EV, and far fewer 'great' plugins. I partly blame myself for this. I originally wrote FH for EV, before the term 'TC' was actually in use. When EVO came out, I quickly upgraded it and released it a few months later. Once people had got past the 'Your plugin sucks because you've made the mistake of putting two planets in the same place' stage and actually decided they liked it, TC-mania set in, and there were loads of individuals and teams promising enormous plugins with thousands of new planets which never came to fruition. I also blame the EVO scenario - it left far fewer hooks for further writing than EV did.
Re: plugin plotlines in general - a plugin that tries to have a plot is at least one up on the 'every outfit or ship for 1 credit' plugins which are always the first to be released. If the plot isn't very good, maybe the author will do better the next time.
Re: Zhouj's original point - people on this board take note - if you want a TC, it's you who have to write it. I personally would never try to write a TC, because I think it's a waste of time. I did, however, once write a story that happened to end up as a TC.
Tiresmoke: I must also apologize for my excessive use of sarcasm and rhetoric. I'd also have to clarify that while I recognize the effort put into plug-in's, I still have a right to criticize since it's released for public use and thereby critique. I appreciate the effort put into them but that still doesn't change the fact that some are lacking in plot structure and content. That being said, my goal is to critique constructively, not nitpick about grammar errors in plugs (even though it's a sign of lack of polish. If you're developing a plug-in and reading this, please make sure to at least run it through Spelling and Grammar check in Word or such.) or just make blanket "it suX0rz" statements, rather I'd just like to see an increase in quality.
Martin Turner: Yes, there's is a certain degeneration of civility here but I don't think many take things personally (I don't) and at the end of this discussion, I doubt we'll have permanent grudges or such.
As for Clavius and Beyond, the adult content wasn't totally inappropriate, it just wasn't tasteful. And then there's the romance plotline which I didn't like much.
Yes, a plug-in with a plot is better than the cheat plug's. But that doesn't say much and the issue of the storyline remains. I'm still inclined to play if only to recognize flaws I should avoid in my own plug-in.