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Originally posted by Dana: **Yes, BG is an RPG, and it dosen't have food. There is a difference between not mentioning something leaving it out of the simulation, and implementing it in a grossly unrealistic manner. **
there's nothing to suggest that the world of PoG is basically different from our own in that area, so it should behave like ours. If it doesn't, then it should be for a reason
There is nothing to suggest that the world of BG is basically different from our own in the area of food, so it should behave like ours. Since they left out food completely then it must not be a RPG by your definition.
Furthermore, in BG a player can not go without sleeping for more than 24 hours. If they stay up longer than that then they start accumulating penalties followed by hit point loss until death. This is decidedly not realistic. I have hiked/worked out for several days straight without "luck" penalties nor "hit point loss." There is no reasonable explaination to this so BG must not be a RPG by your definition.
It's the same thing with bathrooms, I have no knowledge of an RPG which requires micromanagement of this detail...
But yet you suggest that a RPG must micromanage things of small detail. I consider eating the same as going to the bathroom. Heck, many people go to the bathroom more often than they eat. Given this, bathrooms ought to be more prevalent than food.
Brushing over an issue by not showing it at all is forgivable, and in fact essential in many cases. Blurring two things - eating and healing - together, so that both are unrealistic, is not.
And why is this more unrealistic than magic?
When I am fatigued and I eat, I typically get a large rush of energy. Can this not be paralleled to the fantasy setting with hit points? Actually, now that I think about it, in PoG hit points are really Stamina points. It stands to reason that food would increase this, no?
The defenders of PoG seem to fall back heavily on the fact that it can be edited through plug-ins.
No, they don't. They aren't the ones defending their game.
**This is not a truly valid argument, any more than it would be correct for a car company to say: "It's not a problem that our cars do not have engines, you can buy or build an engine and have it installed." **
I know a lot of car frame vendors that market their frames as being the best in the industry. All you need to do is supply the motor, transmission, wheels, etc.
**What comes stock is what counts, add-ons are nice but they don't make a difference in the actual, basic product. It can be corrected through patches, but the basic design choice was flawed. **
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. However I have pointed out the reasons that I believe your opinion to be flawed.
As to the realism of Sea-Giants - their very presence suggests that our world is different from PoG's in the nature of it's inhabitants. They require no real explanation, they just exist in that world because they do, just like humans there. That is fundamentally different from unrealistic eating.
I don't find the eating to be unrealistic. I would find a requirement to eat excessive in detail. There is a reason I don't play Ultima anymore.
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(This message has been edited by Stark Bledfast (edited 06-18-2003).)
Amazing, he points out how everything can be completely pointing to it being an RPG, but in no way is sarcastic or rude. Very well said, Stark. And yes, HP in PoG is more commonly referred to as Stamina Points.
------------------ Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordian. "You're dumb." -Rawzer to whitedevil and whitedevil2
Very well, I suppose it is an RPG - but it's unrealistic. Fine. You enjoy it however you want, but it can be either a good adventure game or a flawed RPG, depending on how you look at it.
Frankly, no RPG is perfect, but measured against the RPG standard in my mind, PoG falls rather short of the mark as an RPG. It's far too simple overall, really, to meet the other games in the field. Sorry, but the main fun in PoG - for me, anyway - was the combat, not the plot. When I play in RPG, that is normally one of the things I enjoy the least. I normally enjoy watching the plot unfold, combat is secondary to that. When I say fun, though, I mean like playing 'Aperion' and not like playing 'Alpha Centuari' or 'Starcraft' - it's just too simple!
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(This message has been edited by Dana (edited 06-18-2003).)
Originally posted by Dana: Frankly, no RPG is perfect
I certainly agree. I have yet to find a computer RPG that compares to pencil and paper RPGs.
**but measured against the RPG standard in my mind, PoG falls rather short of the mark as an RPG. It's far too simple overall, really, to meet the other games in the field. **
This is fine. Your standard is much different than mine.
Sorry, but the main fun in PoG - for me, anyway - was the combat, not the plot.
I found the opposite. The combat was rather routine and static for my tastes. The storyline, while far from unique, was enjoyable. And expansion is another thing that made me enjoy PoG very much. In paper and pencil RPGs the game never ended because we'd use different modules, or DMs would create their own scenarios/maps. But the game was the same. So it is with PoG, and Coldstone is fairly easy to use; albeit buggy. cough
When I play in RPG, that is normally one of the things I enjoy the least. I normally enjoy watching the plot unfold, combat is secondary to that.
I agree to a point. Combat is necessary to me because a non-combat game doesn't hold my attention very well. Myst, for example, I abhor. But in the same vein I want a good plot and storyline. This is key.
When I say fun, though, I mean like playing 'Aperion' and not like playing 'Alpha Centuari' or 'Starcraft' - it's just too simple!
Simplicity is sometimes good. Depends what you are after.
A piece of a poem by Matt Burch:
Your probably wondering how eats and sleeps with things being this way, Just say to yourself, "It's a game, I really should shut up and play."
I think that it fits quite nicely with the discussion
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Yes, but isnt that poem from the EV series (spoofing MSC3k)
Originally posted by Dana: Is The Sims an RPG?
It isn't?!
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Originally posted by Rawzer: **It isn't?! **
Acctually, The Sims would make a great example of an adventure game.
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The Sims: PLAY the ROLES of one or more fictional personages and control, if you wish, their every action. Plus it's a GAME, so we have here ROLE, PLAYING, GAME. Need I say more?
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I always kind of considered it a Sim ulator..
Originally posted by SlaVitiCkus: **I always kind of considered it a Sim ulator.. **
SRPG? Simulated Role-Playing Game?
Originally posted by SlaVitiCkus: **Yes, but isnt that poem from the EV series (spoofing MSC3k)
**
Indeed it is. But I thought that it made sense for our discussion.