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There are regular questions on this board about 'which editor should I use', to which the usual reply is 'use the search function'. This is of course a little unhelpful, as the editors are evolving, and old searches will reveal complaints about bugs which no longer exist.
Here is the profile of my ideal editor, and a comparison chart of how the editors stack up with it. Please add your own ideal editor profile. Please don't turn this thread into a flame war about your favourite versus the rest.
Martin's ideal editor:
The editors compared Res Edit with Nova Tools
Mission Computer
EVONE
And the victor is: well, on OS9, ResEdit with Novatools, but not for map editing. On OSX it has to be Mission Computer, although you'll be searching around the Resource Bible a bit. EVONE's multi-file, multi-view is excellent, but gets confusing when you try to look at your map which it shows with EVN's. Plus the registration fee is a real killer.
Horses for courses, as they say. To bring them up to scratch, Mission Computer needs to offer multiple views and look at multiple files, and replace the RDLs with proper interfaces. EVONE needs to make itself much point and click - there's still way too much coding required.
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Quote
Originally posted by Martin Turner: To bring them up to scratch, Mission Computer needs to offer multiple views and look at multiple files, and replace the RDLs with proper interfaces.
The RDLs are definitely set to give way (one by one) to real editors - the idea is that an RDL is better than nothing, not that it's a replacement for a real editor. As for opening multiple resources at the same time, that's a bit more complicated, but I have put some thought into it.
Help function is very good but incomplete. ...(/b)you'll be searching around the Resource Bible a bit(/b)
In addition to the Help command, I do have a fair bit of contextual help; point the mouse to the various buttons and fields in most editors (in Mac OS 9 you have to turn on Balloon Help first) and you get a description of how they function.
Copying is a pain ... Shows you what you've done with systems and spobs, not so helpful with others
Could you elaborate on these ones?
Doesn't understand how to look at other files
Do you mean non-EV files here?
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Very fair review. Nice work.
EVONE, I agree, has definitely not reached its ease-of-use potential, and that will be my point of concentration for future releases.
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com")Arios SoftWare(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/products/evone/")EVONE 1.0pb2 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)
Thanks guys.
David's points
Copying: copying resources in ResEdit is dead easy - you can copy and past hundreds of resources at once. In Mission Computer, unless I'm doing it wrong, it tries to paste the resource back where it came from, whereas ResEdit offers you the choice of a Unique ID - which is usually what you want
Not showing you what you've done with others For example, the Shan editor in ResEdit with Novatools is much more graphical than in either ME or EVONE. On the other hand, both ME and EVONE score massively over Novatools in the Galaxy and Spob stakes.
Looking at other files By looking at other files, I mean that EVONE can actually look at several plugins at the same time and offer you the choices of resources in them. This is very useful if you keep your graphics separate from your resources - an important precaution in a big plugin. Currently ME doesn't do this.
That said, both ME and EVONE are streets ahead of the old EV-Edit and Schmelta V, especially in the all important not-wiping-out-your-files stakes. Plus they are currently supported and updated by their authors, which ResEdit will never be, although of course Dr Ralph supports his work very well.
Originally posted by Martin Turner: ** For example, the Shan editor in ResEdit with Novatools is much more graphical than in either ME or EVONE. On the other hand, both ME and EVONE score massively over Novatools in the Galaxy and Spob stakes. **
This is all forthcoming, for example one of the upcoming EVONE builds will have full RLE support , shan is the next logical step. Once EVONE is feature complete it will be fully graphical. You should do another review then.
I also agree this is a very fair review at this time.
Entarus,
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Originally posted by Martin Turner: copying resources in ResEdit is dead easy - you can copy and past hundreds of resources at once. In Mission Computer, unless I'm doing it wrong, it tries to paste the resource back where it came from, whereas ResEdit offers you the choice of a Unique ID - which is usually what you want
That's interesting - unique ID is something I almost never use. If it's important though, I can add it in a future version.
Ah, I see, you're referring to the non-graphical editors. Again, all the RDL-type things are considered an alternative to nothing, not a replacement for a real editor.
MissionComputer doesn't let you open more than one resource at a time, but multiple files shouldn't be a problem - or do you mean combining them all into one document window as if they were one file? I remember EV-Edit and its ilk tried to do the latter, and I found it really clunky.
I'll give a breakdown of how EVNEW is shaping out so far:
1. Stable and doesn't destroy files. 2. Doesn't corrupt things, including unsupported resources. 3. Edits all 23 Nova resources, plus PICT, cicn, rle8 (sorta), rleD, snd, str, and str#. 4. Very easy cut, copy, and paste. 5. Is point and click for most things, including dropdown menus for AI types, spob commodity prices, etc. Scan masks and contribute/require bits can be typed in hex, or the bits can be edited with a bunch of check boxes, but all flags have descriptive check boxes. 6. I'm not sure what you mean by "shows you what you've done," but there isn't (yet) any graphical universe editor, but I hope to add one in the future. 7. Not much debugging help (yet), but a lot of the info from the Bible can be found in tool tips for every field. 8. It tells you the associated descs and picts of misns, ships, outfs, and so on, and it also has the functionality of ConText/ResStore built into it, i.e. it can save everything but graphics and sound as a tab-separated text document which can be pasted into Excel for mass editing and then reload it. 9. You can open up as many resources within one plugin as you have memory for. 10. You can open as many files at once as you have memory for. 11. Not only is it free, but I'm releasing the source code too.
I'm just curious, are there screenshots anywhere of ResEdit/NovaTools or MissionComputer? I've seen screenshots of EVONE. I just want to see the general look and feel of other editors.
------------------ C:dos C:dosrun rundosrun
(This message has been edited by Aprosenf (edited 10-24-2003).)
I don't know the beef of registering EVONE, as I did it as soon as I tried it.
Also, one feature that would be nice, is where you type, say a shďp ResID, and then EVONE displays the name of the shďp next to the field, as NovaTools does.
The ability to correct my numbers at a glance, like for descs or mďsn ResIDs, is handy, as I am the bit man for a (url-http://forums.tildesoft.com)TC(/url), and I like to look organized (though I'm not, ) I use an AppeWorks document with the name of the rescource and the ResID # for quick reference currently, but for the small plug I made with about 5 extra chärs, shďps, spöbs, strs, and 10 new mďsns, mainly for ränks and extra oütfs, I had a document 4 pages long, and I don't want to imagine how many reams of paper a TC document would take up. shudder, thinks of Tom Clancy novels, except filled with ResIDs
Otherwise, I found the other two editors (NovaTools and MC) very good, but EVONE was my personal favorite, though it is still (or at least I only have) the beta.
The shän editor is fine for me, though graphics (and shäns, etc) are handled by others on the (url="http://"http://forums.tildesoft.com")Dev Team(/url).
I'd like to thank all the people (David Arthur, w00tware, and AriosSw) for their work in making plugs easy (relatively).
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Originally posted by Aprosenf: ** 10. You can open as many files at once as you have memory for.
**
I agree on most parts. I think what Martin Turner was meaning here is that somehow the ideal editor for him would allow one to have more than one file open with a single instance of the program and be able to display resources from all the files at once. Personally, I dont like this idea, but its all a matter of personal preference Course, EVNEW is a windows program, so its in a totally different catogoty. -Az
------------------
Good point. EVNEW can't open more than one file within one instance of the program, but that's not that useful of a feature anyways.
Originally posted by Azratax2: **I think what Martin Turner was meaning here is that somehow the ideal editor for him would allow one to have more than one file open with a single instance of the program and be able to display resources from all the files at once. Personally, I dont like this idea, but its all a matter of personal preference
I think that is what he was describing and it is what EVONE allows. I don't see how it could be a bad thing though... don't you ever need to compare resources from different files and copy/paste between them?
I think that all 3 editors have their strong points so I would use there strong points to the max...
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Aprosenf: Here's a picture of all the editors of (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/news/upcoming/images/evn_editors.jpg")Nova tools(/url).
Nova tools still is the UI I prefer; the editors are easy to overview and gives you a lot of feedback to what you do.
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(This message has been edited by Engla (edited 10-25-2003).)
Multiple files:
Very simply, if you break your plugin down into about six files, my ideal editor would be clever enough to recognise the names of (say) the governments from the governments file, the ships from the ships file, etc.
EVONE currently does this, whereas Mission Computer doesn't.
It's not a huge deal, because I tend to keep all my non-graphical resources in one file. However, ResEdit is already cross about the number of resources in my main data file (not the size, which is only 3.5 MB). Also, when selecting the planet type, custom landscape, custom sound etc it would be nice to preview them.
This may sound like overkill, but, from where I'm sitting trying to manage what is currently a 48MB plugin and growing, it would save a lot of time.
Originally posted by Martin Turner: **However, ResEdit is already cross about the number of resources in my main data file (not the size, which is only 3.5 MB).
Remember that once you reach a point, no resource editor will play nicely with the file due to inherent flaws in the Mac Resource Manager. There are limits both in size and number of resources, as you have seen.
Originally posted by Martin Turner: Very simply, if you break your plugin down into about six files, my ideal editor would be clever enough to recognise the names of (say) the governments from the governments file, the ships from the ships file, etc.
So, for example, would allowing the Resource Selector to search all files in the same folder as the plug-in in question do what you want here?
...That as well as search all the files in the Nova Data folder, I would think.
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Yes, that would do it. For example, with EVONE (at least, today's version) if you open the syst editor, it shows you the spins of your planets as they are in your plugins folder, even though they aren't in the file you are editing.
For large plugins, this really is a must not only are my pict files over 16 MB now, my RLE files are over 16 MB as well.
The additional advantage of this, which is what saved EV-Edit for me in the days that it got buggier and buggier, is that you can create a new plugin when you start editing, have access to all the resources, and only copy it into your main plugin files when you have confirmed by testing it that you haven't introduced errors.
Originally posted by Aprosenf: < snip>
There was an editor I helped test briefly over the summer (winter for you Aussies ;)) that I really liked but I can't remember what it was called or who was working on it. I don't think I even have it on my HD anymore :frown: I'm curious if it was maybe yours? If I remember right the main screen used a button for each resource like ResEdit does but when you moused over the button an image screen on the right side would change to show what resource the button pointed to. Does anyone else know what I'm talking about? It was a sick little editor with a lot of potential I thought. If this isn't your editor does anyone know who's it was and what became of it?
Just to add my own personal thoughts on an editor: Basically I'd like to see someone just recreate ResEdit in X with the added "features" of MC - point and click, description editing tied to missions, spobs, etc, syst editor.
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Originally posted by Kame: ** There was an editor I helped test briefly over the summer (winter for you Aussies;) ) that I really liked but I can't remember what it was called or who was working on it. I don't think I even have it on my HD anymore :frown: I'm curious if it was maybe yours? If I remember right the main screen used a button for each resource like ResEdit does but when you moused over the button an image screen on the right side would change to show what resource the button pointed to. Does anyone else know what I'm talking about? It was a sick little editor with a lot of potential I thought. If this isn't your editor does anyone know who's it was and what became of it?
Well, I don't think you're on my Beta list, and if you were, you'd still be testing it now. You're aware that my editor is for Windows , right? Some screenshots can be found at (url="http://"http://evnew.8m.com")http://evnew.8m.com(/url) .