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Originally posted by Lizard Blade: **There's also the idea of drugs as mature content, as anyone ever complained about "substance E" in Frozen Heart?
**
None that I was ever made aware of. But I do know this: Substance E would be MUCH more fun in Nova... Can anyone say Non-Lethal Bomb? In the midst of a heated battle with a Rigellian Cruiser, the Substance E Lab on your Magellan Destroyer suddenly explodes, instantly dropping your armor down to 1%...
------------------ Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?" Dead silence. "Quarks it is, then."
(This message has been edited by spacecowboy (edited 04-07-2003).)
DRUGS!
now drugs are of course going to be much different in the future (like the nueroin stuff in Minority Report), and drugs are going to more wide spread than they are today - infact I think it would be unlikely if the majority of the population weren't using them quite regularly (just look at how many more people use drugs today than they did in the fifies of sixties - practically all of youth today uses ectasy, I don't have the stats, but just look at how many people go to raves).
So in the future drugs are going to be a major problem, you could have the main character's weakness being a drug addiction (like Sherlock Homes and his opium). Now that would deffinatly add a dark and dirty element to a plug.
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Originally posted by thedecline: **...like Sherlock Homes and his opium...
IT WAS NOT OPIUM!!! IT WAS NEVER OPIUM!!! He used heroin not opium. This is one of the most common misconceptions about Sir A.C. Doyle's "Sherlock Holmes" series. And besides, he was NEVER addicted to it, he used it. A user is not necessarily an addict, just as a drinker is not necessarily an alcoholic. Sorry, folks (Not.). Rant's over, though.
(This message has been edited by spacecowboy (edited 04-08-2003).)
Originally posted by spacecowboy: **IT WAS NOT OPIUM!!! IT WAS NEVER OPIUM!!! He used heroin not opium. This is one of the most common misconceptions about Sir A.C. Doyle's "Sherlock Holmes" series. And besides, he was NEVER addicted to it, he used it. A user is not necessarily an addict, just as a drinker is not necessarily an alcoholic. Sorry, folks (Not.). Rant's over, though.
Could you, like, not use the italicized-bold-allcaps text. It's very annoying.
It's like you are trying to get negative karma.
------------------ Ivanova: "I can only conclude that I am paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate."
Originally posted by thedecline: **DRUGS!
now drugs are of course going to be much different in the future (hey budy, got some snip?)
Actually, they don't have to be different. Same stuff, different names. In Babylon 5, Dr. Stephen Franklin got addicted to Stim-tabs. Something similar exists today. You don't need to come up with some new drug, you just need to use a current one and think of how it is produced. Hey, maybe Mary-J is legal in the future.
Originally posted by Vast Deathmaster: **Could you, like, not use the italicized-bold-allcaps text. It's very annoying.
I'm not trying to get karmaslapped. Of course, for that, I personally couldn't care less. (understatement)I was somewhat irritated at the time,(/understatement) and so I displayed it through my typing. I wanted to make a point, and I get the feeling I kinda made it.
Marijuana should not be illegal right now -- but that's another story. You're right about those drugs. Just apply refinements in processing: that's all heroin is: refined opium (Hrm. I may have just invalidated my above point, but the fact remains: Sherlock Holmes never smoked opium. He injected heroin. And he was never an addict.). Morphine, the substance to which Hermann Göering was addicted, is a combination of opium, ethanol, and several other substances in water. Crack is a refinement of standard cocaine. Speed or Ice is a type of amphetamine (I believe it's methamphetamine). Marijuana itself is simply the leaves of a member of the hemp family. Household materials, such as spray paint and gasoline, are 'sniffed' to get a cheap high -- and, if logic serves me, that 'high' is the same thing that you get from trying to breathe at high altitude with no O2 mask: hypoxia (extreme lack of oxygen). Induces hallucinations, eventually convulsions, and finally death. Almost anything is a narcotic, if used the right (or wrong, depending upon how you look at it) way.
We're getting a little off-topic folks, and a little too excited...
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Originally posted by mrxak: **We're getting a little off-topic folks, and a little too excited...
Granted, and granted. "News Flash: 'Sherlock Holmes: Opium Addict?' Peace Talks Initiated." And I was just trying to explain the drug thing a little.
I agree that a certain amount of "mature content" should be a part of the plugs, after all, that's the way it is in real life. In Frozen Heart/Femme Fatale, you've got "Substance E." In Tim's Empire series, you not only have drugs, you've got drinking, drunkenness, "foul" language, bar fights, smoking... The closer a plug comes to real life (or as real as it may be in the future), the better it will be. If anyone remember's Woody Allen's "Sleeper," smoking is considered healthy! I've just got through playing the Triad string of "Empire of Crime." I had already finished the other two strings (Mafia and Mercenaries Guild). I don't think there's a more "realistic" plug available! I can't wait until "Brotherhood of the Kestrel" comes out!
~Ace
------------------ "There is simply nothing in life more worth doing than kicking ass for money." - J. S. Jordan, Mercenaries Guild
As long as you don't go nuts with porno movies for every mission briefing, and every other world a swear, I don't think there'll be a problem. If you think there might be a problem anyway, just use some of the tips people suggested here. If not, don't worry.
One thing I do not care for, even though it makes the story/characters more believable, is when <PN> is seen to be a heavy drinker and/or a smoker. Another thing is making it seem as if the only thing <PN> cares about is making money, and not about what s/he has to do to make that Almighty Credit! I like to see my guy care about other things as well, and also be able to turn down a job if it goes against his/her "religion" or doesn't consider it ethical. I get a kick when he is given "first refusal" of a job. If I don't wanna do a job (for whatever reasons), give me something else to do! In "Empire of Crime," <PN> gets to smuggle drugs, hijack drug shipments, ... If it were me, keep me out of the drug business! Unfortunately, in this plug, doing such things makes <PN> more money and advances him up the ladder of "success." Ah well...such is life.
Originally posted by mrxak: **As long as you don't go nuts with porno movies for every mission briefing, and every other world a swear, I don't think there'll be a problem. If you think there might be a problem anyway, just use some of the tips people suggested here. If not, don't worry.
That deserves to be a sig line. If only I wasn't going to use something else shortly... Oh well.
Something I'm doing in Sephil Saga is to make a set of mission bits that define your character's personality. Things like money-obsessed, cares alot about their ship, religious, grew up poor, etc. These are partially defined by the char you choose, and partly by the choices you make in the game. Doing certain missions may mean you are a true philanthropist- and unset the "Obsessed with money" bit. Things like the "Donate 90% of your bank account to the Mercurian Orphens Fund" spam mail. All I can say is that I wish MCB had put in full logical tests in the variable text function. But that would simply be too much to ask- the way it works already is a godsend.
------------------ ~Charlie
Originally posted by mrxak: **I've got no problem with it, as long as it's tasteful. If you think it's bad enough that some people may not want to play it, you should probably add a disclaimer in your readme file, and potentially in the description you give it when you upload it to the addons section.
I'm with this guy!
--Alexis
------------------ When man finally became dominant over Earth, he looked upwards to the Heavens...One can easily imagine paleolithic man staring space ward, wondering what it would be like to cross that inconceivable distance and bridge the gap between worlds, to what mysteries were held in the grasp of far planets... --Halo Prologue
Originally posted by Masamune: **Something I'm doing in Sephil Saga is to make a set of mission bits that define your character's personality. Things like money-obsessed, cares alot about their ship, religious, grew up poor, etc. These are partially defined by the char you choose, and partly by the choices you make in the game. Doing certain missions may mean you are a true philanthropist- and unset the "Obsessed with money" bit. Things like the "Donate 90% of your bank account to the Mercurian Orphens Fund" spam mail. All I can say is that I wish MCB had put in full logical tests in the variable text function. But that would simply be too much to ask- the way it works already is a godsend.
Wow. I never would have thought of that. Great idea! Kudos.
Oh, and CaptAceHarddrive, if you hate that plug so much, why the devil are you playing it? Translation of the First Amendment: I got the right to say whatever I want (or not), and by the same token, you got the right to listen to whatever you want (or not).
(This message has been edited by spacecowboy (edited 04-10-2003).)
By 'mature content', do you mean 'content which kids shouldn't see' or do you mean 'content dealing with the wider world in a mature way'?
If you mean 'content which kids shouldn't see', then I would say that this is not appropriate in EV no matter what parental advice warnings you put on it, it will still fall into the hands of kids. Face it even if parents take the trouble to satisfy themselves that EV is a suitable game for their sweet offspring to play, are they going to check out plugins even if they know what they are? Much more likely is: "Now what be you a doin' Jimmy?" "Aw, shucks Ma, just playin' at that old EV like you said I could." "Well, ok Jimmy, jus' as long as you don' download any o' those other evil filths games they have there on their varmint intnernet."
If you mean 'content dealing with the wider world in a mature way', then I would say yes, if you can bring it off. But that all depends on your writing skills and the range of your own experience. You're not going to write convincingly about romance if you are still hoping to find a girl desperate enough to date you.
There have been a few plugins that tried to push the envelope on realistic writing about violence. They have not all worked, some because, despite the fact that the main characters were supposed to be well used to violence, the authors weren't.
You might respond to this by saying that as the whole of EV is set in a made up universe, it's all total fantasy anyway. But that's not quite the point. If you're writing about violence/life of crime/sex&drugs;&rocknroll;, there's a fair chance that someone playing your game has got some actual experience of it, or, at least, has read stuff written by someone who did and who was able to communicate it. Nobody can say they have more experience of your made up universe than you do, so that test doesn't really apply.
Just my thoughts.
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I don't really think romance is mature content, and to put it bluntly for the average angry male it's just plain boring. But as far as knowing what your talking about when it comes to voilence and drugs, wars and things like that - you can always educate yourself. You can go on the internet type 'experiencing voilence' into a search engine and their are many pages, posted by war veterans and other people which deal with experiences like that. Films also help as well.
But really, one must realise that it is all just an authors perspective, what they think creativly about certain issues - such as voilence, war, and crime, may not be completely realistic, however by putting effort into writing missions breifings, etc, and author can often sound convincing without actually knowing everything about what they are talking about.
I've experienced a good few things in my life, and while war isn't one of them, other things that happen to you can always shed light on subjects you know little about. Lifes all about experiences and the more you have, the better you can express things creativly (through words, pictures, music, or film).
Wow! This got really philisophical didn't it?
Also Space Cowboy, sorry about getting that opium thing wrong (I'm sure I have seen Sherlock Homes smoke opium in at least one film, and was heroin even a major drug in those days - I thought it was just a cough surpressant?) but calm down man...
Originally posted by thedecline: **< snip>
Good points made, and I agree wholeheartedly with all of them.
And as to the opium, it IS shown in several films -- which is why most people think he used it -- and yes, heroin was a major drug, but not to the extent it is now.
This reminds me of my Frozen Heart plug-in, where the character (ie you) is corrupted beyond repair and becomes addicted to opium. It is, in fact, based on my own experiences in life.
I think that you should keep things in balance. If you're going to have a lot of drugs in a plug, skip out bad language and sex. Same with the others.
As for violence, although you may think it can be unavoidable in a game like EV, you'd be wrong. In the end, no matter how pretty and realistic the graphics look, actual violence in EV is big metal ships with lasers coming out. It's in the description where you have the power, not the gameplay. Like someone mentioned before, is it really neccessary to tell us what colour the guy's prostate was when he was ripped in half by the monstrous cannibal fish of Talos II?
By the way, I think that corruption is the sole of realism and fun. In real life, if you were given the power to do anything, absolutely anything, you would. Which is why I like to make the character himself a really nasty person.
In the FH plug, you start out as a heavy smoker. Then you take drugs and your mind begins to screw up, you throw mad fits for no reason and have people executed when you wish. Since you climb up the ladder in Rigellian ranks, you have the power to kill people, and often do.
But then I'll probably add a mission where you go into rehab. The madness has to end somewhere.
--gav
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Originally posted by pistgavin: **< snip> But then I'll probably add a mission where you go into rehab. The madness has to end somewhere.
But does it? American storylines would end the way you describe, with the goodguy winning, and the badguy winding up dead/in jail. But the traditional Tragedy ends with the goodguy dead/in jail. Just remember that not all stories should have a happy ending.