Flak or Chaff

thedecline

In EV:Nova you've got Electronic Counter Measures, no problem, but what about Physical Contuer Measures, like in real life.

Like chaff that shoots out of the back of your ship and blows up incomming missiles. I was just wondering how you would go about it.

You could have a flak cannon or something which shot out of the back of your ship and exploded into other things, so an oncomming missile would get blown up, but are their any other ways, say shooting multiple prjoectiles out at once?

------------------
The galaxy is about to become apocalyptic: (url="http://"http://3114.spyw.com")3114:A Nova TC(/url)

Firebird

Quote

Originally posted by thedecline:
**In EV:Nova you've got Electronic Counter Measures, no problem, but what about Physical Contuer Measures, like in real life.

Like chaff that shoots out of the back of your ship and blows up incomming missiles. I was just wondering how you would go about it.

**

Does chaff physically detonate a missile? I thought it was used to distract homing signals for radar-guided missiles. But I'm not an expert, I don't actually know.

------------------
Mike Lee (Firebird)
Visit Cymltaneous Solutions: (url="http://"http://cs.paching.com/")http://cs.paching.com/(/url)
(hosted by (url="http://"http://www.evula.org")evula.org(/url))

ArcAngel Counterstrike

Flak is anti-aircraft.
Chaff is to disrupt radar missiles
Flare is to decoy heatseeking missiles.

In space, the most effective would be of course a Laser Point-defence cannon. Yet thats not always fun, so a Phalanx weapon like that of the Storm Chaingun in Nova would be good. I'm not sure if submunitions from a PD can take out missiles to make a missile flack weapon work... I'll check it out.

------------------
Ecky- ecky- ecky- ecky- pikang- zoop- boing- goodem- zoo- owli- zhiv'
"You are the Messiah!" "No I'm not!" "Yes your are, I should know, I followed a few"

(This message has been edited by ArcAngel Counterstrike (edited 04-20-2003).)

Vaumnou

You could have a count-10 submunitioning Point Defense weap with a Prox Radius, whose submunitions are white point-defence specks launched with 180 degrees of inaccuracy and a high PD damage rating. That would do flak pretty nicely (anti-fighter OR anti-missile). For chaff, just have a secondary weapon with count 1, which dies and submunitions into 15 point-defence specks. You would select "chaff" in your secondary weap list, and hit fire. A projectile would launch but immediately disappear and be replaced by 15 or so sparkly objects flying towards the missile in a cloud. I.E. what you would see would be a secondary weapon that, when fired, blew a cloud of chaff in whatever direction the missiles were coming from. The missiles wouldn't be distracted or track the chaff, but they would die on contact with it. I'm sure there's something horribly wrong with doing it this way, but I can't think what it would be. Would this work?

-Vaumnou

------------------
Did you know that 63.8% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot?
"He's too late. SEE?!? THE CLIFFS OF INSANITY!!! Hurry up!"

(This message has been edited by Vaumnou (edited 04-20-2003).)

spacecowboy

I would set the chaff up in much the same way that you said, Vaumnou, however, I would change things a little: when the chaff subs out, make the subs freefall bombs, with a subtheta of 360, and I would make the speed on the subs very very low. This means that you have a gradually expanding cloud of sparkly metal things that blow up missiles when they run into it. I would also up the damage a little, to simulate missiles detonating near it. Of course, this would be a whole lot easier if Matt would just put the flare feature back into the game... But who's complaining?
But anyway, do it like I said, and just pop a couple of these little babies out the back when that Manticore is chucking EMP torps at ya... Guaranteed to solve your missile problems forever. All we need is your bank card and your personal identification number, and we'll send ya the bill.

------------------
Suddenly, the little scoutship disappeared and then reappeared right behind the alien warfleet. The gravitic ship's captain hailed the armada. "You are going to be destroyed, but I will give you a choice as to how you want to spend eternity: big pieces, little pieces, or quarks?"
Dead silence.
"Quarks it is, then."

nighthawk

Quote

Originally posted by Firebird:
Does chaff physically detonate a missile? I thought it was used to distract homing signals for radar-guided missiles. But I'm not an expert, I don't actually know.

the chaff doesn't detonate the missile, the missile detonates itself. chaff is usually used in air combat, which is really fast and requires fairly little damage (which compares quite nicely to space combat). in that context, missiles don't need to wait until impact to explode, so almost all air to air missiles have proximity detonators which set off the missile when it comes within a certain distance of its target. so when a missile decides that the cloud of chaff in front of it is its target, it moves close to it and then detonates. other missiles which don't proximity detonate, like hypervelocity missiles or, in a naval context, cruise missiles (which usually aren't decoyed by chaff to begin with) don't explode when they hit a cloud of chaff, so they can reacquire their target once they've passed through it. unfortunately, that means that implimenting decoys which play nicely with both explosive missiles and hypervelocity missiles in evn is really hard to do well

------------------
you want to know if i'm moral enough to join the army, burn women, kids, houses, and villages, after being a litterbug?

mrxak

This was one of those things that I had wanted to do with Nova when it first came out but never got around to playing with. My high-powered disable-only ionizing lightning-beam point defense system ended up being pretty cool though, and distracted me for quite a while. Thanks for bring this up again.

Vaumnou

Quote

Originally posted by spacecowboy:
...when the chaff subs out, make the subs freefall bombs, with a subtheta of 360, and I would make the speed on the subs very very low. This means that you have a gradually expanding cloud of sparkly metal things that blow up missiles when they run into it.

That would work, except for the fact that freefall bombs don't affect missiles (I think)

-Vaumnou

------------------
Did you know that 63.8% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot?
"He's too late. SEE?!? THE CLIFFS OF INSANITY!!! Hurry up!"

(This message has been edited by Vaumnou (edited 04-20-2003).)

thedecline

Making Chaff, now would be easy enough, but what about flares, to decoy missiles? Is their any possible way to do something like that.

------------------
The galaxy is about to become apocalyptic: (url="http://"http://3114.spyw.com")3114:A Nova TC(/url)

Vaumnou

Quote

Originally posted by thedecline:
Making Chaff, now would be easy enough, but what about flares, to decoy missiles? Is their any possible way to do something like that.

Unless I'm wrong, Matt Burch took missile decoy flares completely out of the engine. So the missile won't steer towards your flares, but you could make it so that if the flares hit the missile it dies. Oh well.

-Vaumnou

------------------
Did you know that 63.8% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot?
"He's too late. SEE?!? THE CLIFFS OF INSANITY!!! Hurry up!"

(This message has been edited by Vaumnou (edited 04-20-2003).)

thedecline

Damn that Matt Burch!

------------------
The galaxy is about to become apocalyptic: (url="http://"http://3114.spyw.com")3114:A Nova TC(/url)

Vaumnou

(quote)Originally posted by thedecline:
**(--bleeep--) that Matt Burch!:)

(edit) Yayy! 100 posts in less than a month! (/edit)

-Vaumnou

------------------
Did you know that 63.8% of quoted statistics are made up on the spot?
"He's too late. SEE?!? THE CLIFFS OF INSANITY!!! Hurry up!"

(This message has been edited by Vaumnou (edited 04-21-2003).)
**

pesimist_guy

Mmmh. In EV/O there was a 'Decoyed by flares' option for wëaps, but it was removed in EVN I think.

------------------
Pez's Profile Refresh no. 18
It's me, pez. | Team ev3: Defending the Ambrosia webboard community's gaming honour | (url="http://"http://www.battle.net/war3/ladder/war3-player-profile.aspx?Gateway=Northrend &PlayerName;=ev3.Frost")ev3.Frost(/url)

nighthawk

isn't there a flag in the weap resource which says that a seeker can target ships other than its initial target (or some such thing)? if that's the case, it might be possible to do it with fighters (the bay gives a little jamming so it picks up on the fighters instead of you, where the fighters are really slow and have 0 turn). maybe i'll give that idea a try when i get home

------------------
you want to know if i'm moral enough to join the army, burn women, kids, houses, and villages, after being a litterbug?

Guest_spl_cadet_*

Try making proximity detonated PD rockets.

------------------
spl_cadet: Defender of the Church, defeater of Protestantism, dread of the atheists, rebutter of arguments, and slayer of the occasional dragon or two.
(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/spl_cadet/answers/")Got questions?(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/spl_cadet/")Catholic Apologetics and Evangelization:(/url) (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/spl_cadet/updates.html")Last updated April 6, 2003(/url)

thedecline

I think the missiles targetting something other than it's target is only when they are jammed...

But a PD flare, that could work.. but then it would be a sort of depth charge in space, without the depth. a bit like the space grenade thingys in Nova.

Why did Matt Burch remove the decoy flares anyhow, I was playing EVO the other day, and saw the flares, which originally created this idea, but they were quite cool.

I guess if I can get the Chaff working, it would be just as cool.

anywho...

------------------
The galaxy is about to become apocalyptic: (url="http://"http://3114.spyw.com")3114:A Nova TC(/url)