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Originally posted by pesimist_guy: **Basically their only major advantage over Mission Computer + NovaTools is the funky interface and the ability to edit the map visually...
**
I would have to disagree. I am ignoring NovaTools entirely because it does not run on X. Though this is not a major problem currently, it is highly likely that Nova plugin development will continue for years, long after Classic has been abandoned. I am also ignoring it because you have to admit it is very confusing to use for someone not intimately familiar with the Nova bible.
MissionComputer is a great program and has only gotten better since EVONE development started. It still, however, does not offer the majority of EVONE's features. What you call EVONE's "funky interface" is crucial to its functionality. It allows the user to easily visualize the plugin and enables him to open an unlimited (governed only by available memory) number of editors simultaneously. Finally, every editor that could, in any way, benefit from a graphical interface, will have one. Already, the galaxy and syst editors are completely graphical and I am pretty sure that EVONE is the first third-party program to give an accurate rendering of an entire system.
There is no doubt that MC could grow to do much of what EVONE does, but you underestimate the work required.
Jeffrey - Arios SoftWare
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com")Arios SoftWare(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/upcoming")EVONE 1.0.0 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)
I think you should be charged a dollar every time you tout your editor over everything else, until you actually release SOMETHING.
Feel free to respond "Oh yeah??" and link to what there is of the program to put me in my place. Really. Feel free.
sigh
------------------
Originally posted by AriosSw: **I am pretty sure that EVONE is the first third-party program to give an accurate rendering of an entire system. **
Wrong, EV/O Developer's Map did that years ago (unless you are talking about Nova)
In fact, if you haven't noticed yet, all the people who have tried MC say it's great, and yet you are the only one who says EVONE is great. Aren't you slightly biased?
Something more: EVONE has been in development for ages, and yet MC came out long before EVONE even though it is not completed. It seems wherever I look I see you trying to sell a program which I personally haven't seen, am not prepared to pay for, and do not want to use. I believe that MC is greater than anything you can come up with for one major reason. 1) DA is doing this to help people, not to make money.
(This message has been edited by Sean Sabbage (edited 01-12-2003).)
Originally posted by AriosSw: **I would have to disagree. I am ignoring NovaTools entirely because it does not run on X. Though this is not a major problem currently, it is highly likely that Nova plugin development will continue for years, long after Classic has been abandoned. I am also ignoring it because you have to admit it is very confusing to use for someone not intimately familiar with the Nova bible. **
I withhold judgment on EVONE until I have seen it, but I know that I can afford $10 and that getting a good Carbon sΛst editor will get my plugin moving again. Considering EVODevMap only runs if I start up the computer in OS9 (it does not run under Classic) it is very annoying and is hurting my plug's progress.
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Originally posted by Sean Sabbage: **Wrong, EV/O Developer's Map did that years ago (unless you are talking about Nova)
(This message has been edited by Sean Sabbage (edited 01-12-2003).)**
1)He is the only one who sais that EVONE is great , because he is one of the few who have tried it. I'm a beta tester of EVONE and I have been using it from beta 1. I admit that mission computer is quite good. But EVONE will at least reach that level. So before saying that he is the only one who sais its great keep in mind that nobody has used it before.
3)Mission Computer is free. Like I said its written in RealBasic and you have know Idea how easy it is coding in RB compared to C. I can estimate that mission computer contains 500 to 1000 lines of code (I'm not sure about this). EVONE contains more then 30000 lines of code. Jeffery (AriosSofwtare) , worked for 6 hours non-stop yesterday trying to fix some bugs. He has been working on it for 6 months now. You don't get how much work that is. When you get back from school (or work) , you have to start up the computer and instead of enyoing yourself you start WORKING. Programming is a full time job , and is in my belief underapreciated. Most people have no Idea how much effort it takes to write a program. And : We live (if you hadn't noticed) in the 21st century, and sadly evrything resolves arround money. When you work for 6 months on something (+6 months to come), and write a program that will help people (yes it helps), you can ask a small fee. Mission Computer invloved alot of work too , but certainly not as much as EVONE. All we ask is 10$ no insane prices, and we arn't Micro$oft. We don't make much money out of it , but we can pay hosting etc... . We are not selling you a rip-off, or some junk. But many months of work and detication on a product. If you still disagree , learn a language and try to make a program for 6 months. We'll see then if you still want to give it away.
I hope this gives you a better understading of why EVONE cost 10$ and why it takes so long to make.
Entarus,
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.apple.com")iMac, Therefore, I am(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/upcoming/")EVONE 1.0.0, the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url) Somewhere out there life is bound to exist...
(This message has been edited by Entarus (edited 01-12-2003).)
Originally posted by Sean Sabbage: **Wrong, EV/O Developer's Map did that years ago (unless you are talking about Nova) **
Yep, I am talking about Nova. Giving a preview of an entire EV/EVO system is easy.
Most of Entarus' points are correct. I started EVONE on January 28, 2002 and the public beta will be released before January 28, 2003 (I haven't decided on an exact date yet). While I believe MC contains more than 500 lines of code, it does not contain anywhere near 30,000 (that was the last count I did, about a month ago). The annoying thing about being a programmer is there is no real way to measure the work you've done until the app is released. You can try comparing line counts, but while impressive, they are really meaningless to the user. When the public beta is released, you will hopefully be able to see the huge amount of work that went into it and the little things it includes that make it better. Finally, do not compare development times when trying to gauge a products value - they are just as worthless as line counts. MC was developed and released long before EVONE was envisioned. They were coded in different languages, with different tools, and with different styles, a comparison is impossible.
Originally posted by Sean Sabbage: **...and yet you are the only one who says EVONE is great. Aren't you slightly biased? **
What am I supposed to do? Say it is horrible? I gave what I believe is a fair comparison and I did not judge any of the three products mentioned without giving reasons. I better be the only one who says it is great - no one else has seen it. If anyone says it is good or bad (other than the testers), I would ask how they obtained a copy!
If you wish to discuss this in more detail, see (url="http://"http://forums.ariossoftware.com")http://forums.ariossoftware.com(/url)
Finally, every editor that could, in any way, benefit from a graphical interface, will have one. Already, the galaxy and syst editors are completely graphical and I am pretty sure that EVONE is the first third-party program to give an accurate rendering of an entire system. (/B)
Graphical... map... editor?
wOOhOO! PH33R TH3 W11K1D 3D1T0R!
Sorry, I get so carried away sometimes... the thing is, I'm in the middle of syst editing and its the most boring peice of (Ng'andan) lashae (/Ng'andan) in all of plug development, especially for TC's, GAH! (Ng'andan) Than'and'ar(/Ng'andan) Novatools for not making it graphic based. I still love it tho.
Can we pay in advance? Pretty please?
------------------ Benarhtalh engan. >^_^< (url="http://"http://WWW.Ninjaburger.com")Ninjaburger.(/url) There in 30 minutes or we commit seppuku. A Stoir Moi Chroi. A plugin for EVN. "And Druid's feet will pace again/the mountians of my childhood..."
I am also a beta tester of EVONE, and it is worth more than $10. It already has the map editors completed, and is very easy to use. it is a little buggy, but it is a beta , so that is expected.
yomcat
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Originally posted by Entarus: I can estimate that mission computer contains 500 to 1000 lines of code (I'm not sure about this).
For what it's worth, MissionComputer 2.1.0a2 comprises 17,859 lines of code as of today's build.
------------------ David Arthur (url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url): MissionComputer 2 for EV Nova Released (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/faq/")EV Nova Gameplay FAQ(/url) - Now Hosted by (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url)!
(This message has been edited by David Arthur (edited 01-12-2003).)
Originally posted by David Arthur: **For what it's worth, MissionComputer 2.1.0a2 comprises 17,859 lines of code as of today's build.
Does 2.1 have ship and outfit editing capabilities? That's the main thing I need in an editor. And why do I get the feeling you and Arios are at war with each other? Stop the hating and collaborate.
/me grins ruefully
Sorry everyone, I just got a little mad, that was the cynical teenager talking. I'm really fed up with everything in the world at the moment. I just saw EVONE as an outlet for it all. So once again, truely and deeply sorry. I don't think I should post when I'm tired and crankey....
Perhaps DA and AriosSW are at war because they offer...gasp...competing products. DA's hoping to get us all hooked on MC and then offer an upgrade that edits everything but costs $20. Plus if they collaborate the evil not-free-editor people will take all the good stuff and charge for it. Mwahahahahahaaaa.
On a serious note, I suspect AriosSW wants to see MC fail because it is a competing product (no offense to anyone there, just a fact of life), and DA is feeling maligned because Arios and Co. said MC took more or less no work at all.
I apologize. It wasn't meant as an offence. (its just me making dumb estimations , that in the end turn out to be false :rolleyes: ).
I'm very sorry,
I hope you were not offended,
Originally posted by kb1eip: Does 2.1 have ship and outfit editing capabilities?
In a sense, although at the moment it's probably not the sense you're thinking of. <cryptic grin>. At the moment, I've been focussing on improvments to the overall application code and its associated frameworks, and the only new editor I've added in 2.1 is for the chΓ€r resource, but it's early yet.
Originally posted by SNM: DA's hoping to get us all hooked on MC and then offer an upgrade that edits everything but costs $20.
No, I'm neither making any promises as to MissionComputer's upcoming features nor planning to charge anything for it. I'm just going to take it one feature at a time as I feel like it - the application has already gone far beyond my original plans for it.
Originally posted by Entarus: I hope you were not offended,
Not at all, I just figured that if people were going to be discussing developmental numbers, they might as well have the right ones. But seriously, even I'm surprised at the degree to which these things develop - as the name suggests, MissionComputer was originally going to be sort of like a modern Schmelta-V, a mission editor for EV Override which might at some point be extended to cover the original Escape Velocity as well. Now look at it.
Originally posted by SNM: **On a serious note, I suspect AriosSW wants to see MC fail because it is a competing product (no offense to anyone there, just a fact of life), and DA is feeling maligned because Arios and Co. said MC took more or less no work at all.
Please don't make assumptions. I in no way want to see MC fail and I am sure he does not want to see EVONE fail. MC and NovaTools were, in fact, the inspiration for EVONE. I've been in this community much longer than most of you believe. I started a plugin for the original EV back in '98 and have been reading the boards since then. I never registered and never posted, only read, learning more and more about the games and the community. I only began posting in May, when believed I had something to contribute.
Edit: Hmmm.... Actually, EV-Edit was the main inspiration for EVONE, with MC and NovaTools on the side. EV-Edit was so bad (hopefully I am not insulting anyone) that I knew I could and had to make a better one.
(This message has been edited by AriosSw (edited 01-12-2003).)
The thing that I would most like to see in Mission Computer is a graphical weapons and outfits editor, because for me they're the only major resources that are confusing. A kind of integrated EV/O/N Bible (sort of pop-up fields that tell you what altering this field will do e.t.c) would be nice too, if it's not too much to ask
------------------ Will
DA: That was a joke. I thought the smiley indicated such, but whatever. AriosSW: Let me revise that, then. You don't care if MC fails as long as it doesn't succeed to the point of impeding EVONE sales. And if you deny that, go ahead, but I don't believe you.
Originally posted by Captain Will: The thing that I would most like to see in Mission Computer is a graphical weapons and outfits editor, because for me they're the only major resources that are confusing.
Those are both fairly high on the priority list.
Originally posted by Captain Will: A kind of integrated EV/O/N Bible (sort of pop-up fields that tell you what altering this field will do e.t.c) would be nice too, if it's not too much to ask;)
What are you thinking of? I've already got Resource Bible excerpts in the help system, in the NCB editor, and in the tooltips - where else should I put them?
Originally posted by David Arthur: **What are you thinking of? I've already got Resource Bible excerpts in the help system, in the NCB editor, and in the tooltips - where else should I put them?
Sorry! I obviously haven't given MC 2 a close enough look yet. Now it will go under the microscope!
ok, I've had EVONE since it was in Alpha, and I can say that it is worth the 10$, though I think MC is worth 5-10$ aswell...
Anyways, programing in any language is hard... so give it a rest, we all know this, and Mini_Jager.. I'll pass you a copy of EVONE is Jeffery sayes its ok
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