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I'm Chinese, and I think that all countries have had their share of atrocities and acheviments. There really is no reason to compare two cultures and scream over who is better, or be racist and insult each other. I am not a traitor to the Chinese or the Americans, but I wanted to make my thoughts clear.
Thanks
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Originally posted by UE Research & Development: **I'm Chinese, and I think that all countries have had their share of atrocities and acheviments. There really is no reason to compare two cultures and scream over who is better, or be racist and insult each other. I am not a traitor to the Chinese or the Americans, but I wanted to make my thoughts clear.
**
That was a well thought out post. I'm not trying to say America is better than China, becuase I don't believe it is or ever was (except for a period of time after the Opium Wars, when China had just been smacked around and was being split up by Europe, and maybe when Mao was in power), but I also think that there wasn't any reason for Zhouj to assume everyone on the board was anti-China, or that this topic was even about the world as a whole, or to type in caps. It just really bothered me. I can understand saying something stupid, because most people don't really think that much before talking- I certainly don't. But when you're posting on a board, then you should be able to realize that you have nothing to say, what you're saying isn't relevant, or that your caps lock key is stuck before you click on the "submit reply" button.
(This message has been edited by !Simon (edited 09-27-2000).)
Originally posted by zhouj: ** Also by stealing US secrets, China penetrated a highly classified security network and defeated the US counterintelligence division of the CIA and NSA. **
I'm from Canada. Up here, there was recently a big scandal because a CCIS (the Candian CIA without so much Coup-supporting) employee lost a briefcase full of important documents at a baseball game. They went in to watch the game and left the documents in their van, which they left unlocked or something. I don't know why I'm posting this, it seemed more relevant when I started it, but I seem to have forgotten the point I was going to make... Uh... if you're into stealing secret documents come up here where it's easier I guess.
We don't want no stinkin' Canadian documents! j/k
Anyway, if you want to trace the cold war back to a secondary cause or two, it's Britain and France. First off, Napoleon did a little fight that set back Russia a tad. With that disturbance in their system (Not to mention the Russian burning of Moscow), it opened them more for a Communist era of power.
Britain is the more direct (especially for Korea and Viet Nam wars/conflicts) cause. By taking advantage of India's fragmented condition, they were able to subdue the people and turn them into a colony. From there, they produced opium. They managed to abuse the generous Chinese trade agreement and addict the richest nation in the world to their Indian opium. Then, when China stopped importing it, Britain declared war. In that state, there wasn't too much of a war, and Britain (And other European nations, America as well) could futher abuse the weaked trade power of China and funnel its wealth away. Japan, grabbing claims in Manchuria, got into a little spat with Russia in the Russo-Japanese War. The US mediated, and both sides were left somewhat unhappy. Japan was elated, most likely, by their stunning victories against the larger European-Asian power.
When WW2 rolls around, Japan, strengthened by their prior victories and political power, were able to invade China quite effectively and do their own 'bad thang' (the rape of Nanking, among others) to the Chinese, futher pushing them into economic losses. Post-war China was ripe for a Communism Government to appease the lower classes. China has their civil war and becomes Communist, with the exception of Formosa (Taiwan), which, technically is still debated over. I feel inclind to say they are their own government, but prior Chinese (People's Republic of) policy claimed that they are a part of the main nation. At any rate, the Cold War between the Soviet Union and the United States was influenced by China. Just as it was influenced by Viet Nam, Korea, Western Europe, and lots of places.
Anyway, there's a lot of history, and causes and effects, unless very direct, are often opinionated and debatable.
Note: Chile was neutral in WW2, but which side did it contemplate joining, Axis or Allies?
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the point is that without the chinese invention of gunpowder, the history of the Cold war would have been different. also the chinese did invent the gun/cannon only that history books just mention when the gun was used in Europe in the mid 13th century. the were one of the most advanced country until the the 18th and 19th centuries when Manchuria kings ruled like idiots. notice how chinese students do better in school then other cultures. that is because they encourage school and studying which enable chinese students that excel at science and other subjects. if the chinese educational base was properly tapped, china would be a maybe a century ahead. because of a handful of corrupt and incomptent rulers, china is not at the tech level. within 30 years the chinese economy will be the largest in the world,the chinese military by far the most powerful in the world and the US grip on global politics will end allowing China the dominance it had in ancient times and the recogination that china deserves. by the way china also invented the first weapons of mass destruction by inventing chemical and biological weapons. if i live a another century, china will probably be the first country colonizing on Mars and anyway has anyone read the Deathstalker series, it is awesome
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Originally posted by zhouj: **the point is that without the chinese invention of gunpowder, the history of the Cold war would have been different. also the chinese did invent the gun/cannon only that history books just mention when the gun was used in Europe in the mid 13th century. the were one of the most advanced country until the the 18th and 19th centuries when Manchuria kings ruled like idiots. notice how chinese students do better in school then other cultures. that is because they encourage school and studying which enable chinese students that excel at science and other subjects. if the chinese educational base was properly tapped, china would be a maybe a century ahead. because of a handful of corrupt and incomptent rulers, china is not at the tech level. within 30 years the chinese economy will be the largest in the world,the chinese military by far the most powerful in the world and the US grip on global politics will end allowing China the dominance it had in ancient times and the recogination that china deserves. by the way china also invented the first weapons of mass destruction by inventing chemical and biological weapons. if i live a another century, china will probably be the first country colonizing on Mars and anyway has anyone read the Deathstalker series, it is awesome
WTF are you doing in america?
Go to China if you're such a proud nationalist.
When did China invent these biological weapons?
China may have the ablility to be strong, but if it starts acting up the US, Russia, and most of Western Europe can take it out before it gets anywere.
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Originally posted by OctoberFost: **China may have the ablility to be strong. **
They definetly have the manpower and political flexibility...
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Originally posted by zhouj: the point is that without the chinese invention of gunpowder, the history of the Cold war would have been different. also the chinese did invent the gun/cannon only that history books just mention when the gun was used in Europe in the mid 13th century. the were one of the most advanced country until the the 18th and 19th centuries when Manchuria kings ruled like idiots. notice how chinese students do better in school then other cultures.
Originally posted by zhouj: **Within 30 years the chinese economy will be the largest in the world,the chinese military by far the most powerful in the world and the US grip on global politics will end allowing China the dominance it had in ancient times and the recogination that china deserves. by the way china also invented the first weapons of mass destruction by inventing chemical and biological weapons. if i live a another century, china will probably be the first country colonizing on Mars and anyway has anyone read the Deathstalker series, it is awesome **
You're probably right about the Chinee economy but I'd move that target out to 50 years. I agree that the US's hold on global politics will seceed but not that much. Europe will overtake the US in many areas including high-technology. I doubt that China will be the first country to colonise Mars, I reckon it will be either a joint US-EU effort or it will be a global effort. Just out of interest, what proof do you have about the chemical and biological weapons, I though it was the Germans when they used Mustard Gas in the first world war.Who's to say that China deserves a placeon the world stage, although it's debateable whether the US deserves one either. In 30 years time the Chinese won't have the most powerfull military in the world, they will have the largest, but not the most powerfull, in military technology the US has about a 20 year lead over Europe and Europe has about a 10 year lead over China. By the year 2100 either Europe or China will be the major world power(s), things might get especially interesting if Russia is admitted into the EU. The US might go back to it's isolationist policies of the past when it sees other countries overtaking it..
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the chinese a mixture of sulfur and several chemicals to create a weapon which was used as a hand grenade, the biological weapon was basically the same except it used contimated human remains and do arrows with explosive rockets count as fireweorks, stupid that's my point, the US and the ****ing European countries think they're so powerful, just wait until they get their asses whooped by China
Originally posted by zhouj: **the chinese a mixture of sulfur and several chemicals to create a weapon which was used as a hand grenade, the biological weapon was basically the same except it used contimated human remains and do arrows with explosive rockets count as fireweorks, stupid that's my point, the US and theEuropean countries think they're so powerful, just wait until they get their asses whooped by China **
I beg to differ, the Europeasn neither think nor are that powerfull relative to the US. Once there is a Federal Europe, within 20 years of it's formation it will probably be th mot powerfull nation in the world, by he way, the US and the EU are the most powerfull economically and military. The US being by far the most powerfull politically.
will a moderator just close the topic like usual
Or move it to B and B.
Originally posted by zhouj: **the chinese a mixture of sulfur and several chemicals to create a weapon which was used as a hand grenade, the biological weapon was basically the same except it used contimated human remains and do arrows with explosive rockets count as fireweorks, stupid that's my point, the US and the ****ing European countries think they're so powerful, just wait until they get their asses whooped by China
I'm stupid? You can't even spell conquer right! You couldn't get "Veni, Vidi, Vici" right either, without me telling you! Yeah, I'm sure you know your history... Hand grenades aren't chemical weaponry, unless you're counting all chemical mixtures as weapons, in which case, the first man-made chemical weapons would probably be bronze clubs. The first biological weapon would be a foreign disease passed on by the invaders. "do arrows with explosive rockets count as fireweorks(sic)" yes, they do, to answer your question. Unless your watching Disney's Mulan, where they are used as a weapon. If China had that kind of technological superiority, then they would have conquered the rest of the world with ease. Also, if China has such superior schooling, then why do they have to steal nuclear secrets? Ooh, here's some hypocrisy: "****ing European countries ". What have European countries ever done to you? Admit, you've been brainwashed by China. They wouldn't even try to attack another country with nukes- no one would. Oh, and the post about the moderators closing this topic- you're demonstrating real faith in your ability to argue for China. Maybe even your rabid jingoist zeal knows its limits?
Pah! That's not a biological weapon!
China has stupid leaders. I'm sorry, that's the truth.
China might have a large army, but the US and Europe have the most advanced armies, and the best leadership.
Ever since the 1840's, the side with the most advanced army and the best leadership has always one.
I suggest you read The Bear and the Dragon by Tom Clancy. It's fiction, but it gives a very good description of what would happen if China got into a war with the US and Europe.
Contaminated human bodies as biological weapons? Trust me, the Vikings threw their diseased and deceased horses over Paris's wall long before that. You know what? I don't think that the Chinese actually stole the secrets from us, because that would've created a MUCH larger international incident. I think that they could've just bought 'em cheap from Russia or one of the nuclear capable former Soviet-satellite countries. Because if they admited to stealing the technology, that would show that they do unnecessary work that costs more, they are willing to risk trade embargoes with the rest of the world who cares about that.
About the gunpowder? Believe me, the Europeans had the material to do it. Pretty soon, someone would've developed it in Europe the moment that they needed another way to get past armor. The gunpowder would've been around before the Cold War without the Chinese. And you know what? The Europeans did get it, so it's useless to argue importance based simply on things that might have happened. The US and Russia could exchange blows about now for a nice, lasting, nuclear winter and make this discussion a mott point.
Originally posted by zhouj: **and the ****ing European countries think they're so powerful, just wait until they get their asses whooped by China **
And what exactly have the Europenas done to you personally?
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Going back to what this topic is about- EVO=Cold War Satire, has it occurred to anyone that the Voinians may just be there becauase stories often need a villian? And who really cares if one country is better than another? We are all biologically identical, 10 fingers 10 toes and a vaguely humanoid body, I thought that was all that mattered.
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Originally posted by CelticStarbase: **And what exactly have the Europenas done to you personally? **
They act all tough...
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I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to zhouj.