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Interpretations more often than not represent the mentality of the interpreter rather than the true intent of the author.
The reasoning used by many to justify the comparison of the Voinian Empire to Russia (The use of this word is misleading by itself. A more accurate term will be the Soviet Union.) can be easily adjusted to make the analogy to the United States.
For slave labor, what do you call illegal immigrants in the United States who work for lower than minimum wage and who cannot appeal to the legal system for protection from workplace hazards? As for planned economy, what do you call social security? For "the faltering voinian industrial Leviathan", what do you call the US manufacturing industry during the 1970s? The US is the one who built the world's largest warships, not USSR. As for arrogance, all I can say is a significant portion of the world's population believe that the US is arrogant as well. All one needs to do to confirm this is read foreign news services. As for bureaucratic, what do you call the US Postal Service? As for honoring heroes too much, just read what Republicans say about Reagan. Every Republican try to work his name in every one of their speeches. The examples are overflowing. What about the mythic cult for JFK? Excessive hero worship is a worldwide trait not limited to any race.
Comparison of the Strands with Middle East is equally groundless. Again, one can make the same king od comparisons for the United States. The various political interest groups can be compared to the squabbling Strands.
In response to htjyang's comments, I'd like to say that all of the mentioned features of the Voinian empire certainly do exist all over the world. However, it is in the USSR that they were most pronounced. I'll give examples:
Children's books that had the phrase "Uncle Lenin says" as a means of teaching children manners, ethics, etc - even in my time. The gulags (concentration camps for political prisoners). Of course, Stalin's famous quote: "The death of one person is a tragedy; the death of millions is a statistic."
How's that for personality cults, slave labor, etc.? Now correlate this to the Voinians' actions as described in mission and planet descriptions, and the match is nearly perfect.
------------------ God. Root. What is difference? -Pitr
AIM: obormot345
Peter:
The British currency is the strongest in the world;
1st: Pound (UK) 2nd: Mark (Germany) 3rd: Dollar (US)
Yes, you were right about the richest;
1st: America 2nd: Germany 3rd: UK
Unless I'm very out of touch (and who knows, I might be), please tell me.
-Gav
PS.
Who is British on the board? So far, I know of myself, Rob and Peter.
So I was wrong about the strength of the currency, it seems - I was making general assumptions from my experiences in Russia and elsewhere (where the order of preference for foreign currency is one of dollars or more marks (depending on which country in particular) then the other of the two, and then other currencies maybe). I'm not that surprised if the worldwide situation is different.
I'm going to get bored of defending/explaining myself soon (either that or remember from basic literary theory that authorial intention is irrelevant ). But for the moment:
The gulag-Voinian slave analogy is fundamentally flawed - most of the people in the gulags were Russian, whereas the Voinians are not noted for meting out such unpleasant treatment to their own people. With occasional expections (the Chechens, for instance) the Soviet regime was fairly even-handed (in racial terms, that is - no one group suffering especially worse than others). Comparing the various slave races to satellite states won't wash either - sure when it came to it they were kept in line by Soviet tanks, but the standards of living in (most of (we're excepting Albania here, of course)) Eastern Europe at least were much higher than those of Russia itself - visiting Berlin was almost as much of a system shock as going to the West for the first time, according to one acquaintance of mine.
Slav: I didn't say 'the Western community' was the model for United Earth - my analogy was 19th century Great Powers, mostly European, yes, but Imperial Russia was unquestionably one of them (at most points 2nd or maybe 3rd most powerful of them in fact). Conceptually, Russia is an integral part of the UE (they are on Earth after all). As for comparisons in national/racial character; for one thing few Russians I've met lately seem particularly arrogant about being Russian - they're all (sometimes painfully) aware of how ****ed up their country is these days, and how much better things are run in the West. Aside from some confrontations with police, and one incident that might be called a mugging (and might happen in any city), the worst thing I've ever worried about from Russians is that they'll force me to drink more vodka than I want to - the average Voinian would like nothing better than to lay waste to your entire planet, something they've done on more than one occasion.
Voinians are perhaps best described like the Vogons from the Hitchhiker's Guide: not actually evil (maybe) but unpleasant, officious, bureaucratic, etc. The fact that humans, and certain human political entities from history in particular, is beside the point. The USSR is just the most recent and well-known example of one. You might as easily be comparing them to Imperial Germany, China (at various times), the Roman Empire, the Assyrians, or whoever you care to name.
If the Voinians seem more hidebound and bureaucratic than United Earth in particular, this is more a side-effect of communications: the Voinians have ftl (ie. instantaneous) communications, while all UE fleet messages are carried by ship, so messages and orders can take a week or more to go to and from command at Luna. This, of course, is an advantage for the Voinians, somewhat counteracted by the freedom it gives to regional UE commanders (eg. d'Erlon). The entire Voinian fleet is being directed by some fragmented committee on Borb station, while the UE navy acts with a little more intelligence.
Yes, the Soviet Union had an exagerrated amount of hero worship for Volodya and Jo, which, now that the full force of the regime is no longer behind it, is beginning to die off (although I have seen the queues for Lenin's tomb, and, indeed, seen (the half wax-work remains of) the man himself - and I have seen the Stalin bloc of the Communists in action as part of a parade by the various Communist parties on the main square of a provincial Russian town). I could as easily make the comparison to Mao's red books, not to mention Hitler's cult of personality. Borb is actually better compared (and I make this comparison for reasons of familiarity to all and scale of achievement and nothing more) to George Washington (or Lincoln - even I can quote fragments of Lincoln's speeches purely by diffusion) - he really was the driving force between an impressive historical event, and his continuing popularity generations after his death is due to genuinely being an awesome figure, not just the mascot of the regime.
Peter C.
------------------ Ja sam ovde samo zbog piva
The comparison to the Vogons cleared that issue up for me, thank you very much, Peter. I happen to like the Vogons, btw.
But on a different note: When were you last in Russia? Because the ambient attitude there now, I know, is quite different.
By the way, as a native Russian speaker, I can say that the holovid text is good, proper use of "touch", all that. But does it say (I forgot) "drugiye yazyk"? Because that means different (plural) language (singular). They have to correspond.
Wow, another Russian on the board. How many of us are here anyway?
------------------
Well, technically, I'm not Russian (by Russian law or genetic similarity), but I was born in Russia, I speak Russian, and it would take too long to explain, anyway.
I think OctoberFost and Cotton Mouse said that they were part Russian. Am I wrong?
And Slav: you couldn't tell by the name? Read it to yourself.
Quote
Originally posted by Obormot:
**Well, technically, I'm not Russian (by Russian law or genetic similarity), but I was born in Russia, I speak Russian, and it would take too long to explain, anyway.
**
Yeah, I'm 25% Russian. My mother is half Russian, and my granfather is 100% Russian. I only know a few Russian phrases (Stupid small dog, Stupid Idiot, I have Vodka, etc.) that my mother taught me. I also collect Soviet Surplus. I have dozens of Soviet medals and even my late uncle's Soviet Army General Uniform. I wore it on halloween and freaked all the old cold war freaks on my block out...
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Well, my grandfather was an accountant first in the Russian Army, then the KGB. He's got a load of medals. He had to sell his uniform when we were immigrating (for lack of money), unfortunately.
I was last in Russia last year, for three months, mostly in Voronezh, but with many visits to Moscow (almost every weekend - there is nothing to do in Voronezh, except drink) and a few other places.
It is drugii iazyk (that's 'i', short 'i' - I'm not sure exactly what transliteration system you're using - there are far too many of them) - I stopped making basic mistakes about agreement a long time ago, thankfully.
Originally posted by Peter Cartwright: **It is drugii iazyk (that's 'i', short 'i' - I'm not sure exactly what transliteration system you're using - there are far too many of them) - I stopped making basic mistakes about agreement a long time ago, thankfully. **
Apparently you didn't. However you transliterate it, that means other (plural) language (singular). You either say drugii iazyki (both plural), or drugoi iazyk (both singular).
Absolutelly right. By the way Peter, what were you doing in Voronez. My friend here in Japan (who's from Voronez) says that it's a dullest place on Earth. Anyway, I envy you, 'cause haven't been to Russia myself for about year and a half.
Slav, your permanent place of residence is Russia? or Japan? Where are you from? I'm personally from Leningrad (or whatever the hell they call it now, St. Petersburg...), though I live in New York now. There's plenty of Russian people here, though.
I definitely would not want go to Russia right now, because I'm Jewish, plus I'm half-Caucasian (as in from Caucasus region), and I've got the classic facial features... plus I'm a U.S. citizen, I probably have a discernible (to a resident of Russia) accent... I'd probably be severely beaten, if not killed, in Moscow or Leningrad now. This has happened to people I know. (Not killed, luckily, but such incidents have been recounted to me).
(This message has been edited by Obormot (edited 05-23-2000).)
Well, to tell you the truth I'm technically Ukrainean not Russian (from Simferopol, Crimea). I studied in Moscow, then in Japan where I live now. My wife is Japanese and at the present moment I'm trying to find a job here, which is not easy for a foreigner, 'cause of some specific features of Japanese society. Anyway, glad to find somebody here from Russia. Wish we could communicate in Russian sometime (don't really get much chance here)
Ukrainian? Ok. Anyway, I don't think you'd want to live in Russia or the Ukraine now, for obvious reasons.
Of course, I'd really like to visit Leningrad, but can't. Maybe in 50 years.
Russia's cities are not as bad as they're made out to be - any big city's bound to have some incidences of beatings and murders, and I know plenty of other students (American and British and various others) who've been having a great time out there with no serious problems - even my parents have taken a holiday out there.
And Voronezh is the dullest place on earth (except maybe for some Siberian towns I've heard of), but it's cheap, and a night train's journey from Moscow.
Originally posted by Peter Cartwright: Russia's cities are not as bad as they're made out to be - any big city's bound to have some incidences of beatings and murders, and I know plenty of other students (American and British and various others) who've been having a great time out there with no serious problems - even my parents have taken a holiday out there.
You are right, of course, and I've heard this from current residents of Russia, about Moscow. But have you been to Leningrad/St. Petersburg? Besides, there is an intense hatred of anyone who looks to have Caucasus-based ancestry, which I do and look it. Add to that the inherent anitsemitism that has existed since the Soviet Union, and I'm Jewish. Were I simply American, it would be different. I tell you, people I know have had very bad things happen to them for those reasons. The police will not protect you. They'll quite possibly be the ones doing the injuring.
to whomever it was that said the pound was the strongest currency:
you could not possibly be correct in stating that the mark is stronger than the dollar - the mark is tied to the reprehensibly mismanaged Euro and its value has been sliding since 1999. due to this sort of decline around the world, especially in asia and europe, combined with the current OPEC price-gouging, most of the world economy is floating on the US bubble. any perceived superiority in the strength of the Pound would be due to closer ties between the British and American economies that were established in lieu of joining the european monetary union in 1998. smart move, britons.
anyway, the point is that the deustchmark sucks. don't buy it. it's not going up.
originally posted by Rob: As a Brit, I would say that most people I know feel very srongly connected to Europe, and are eager to join the Union. Its sad that you think otherwise cheers
We are not wanting to join the Union. Look at opinion poles. Who are you? Tony Blair in discuise? The euro sucks. it needs massive euro-buying schemes to keep it afloat. Reminds me of the Dome. The euro does not work.
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