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Originally posted by David Arthur: **Because they're unwilling to risk being killed by their own government in order to defect to an alien race which is at war with their people (and most of whose members don't exactly have a high opinion of Voinians as a race and are likely to believe they're spies or criminals), they're therefore evil? I'm not sure I follow the logic.
**
What says that the Voinian defector isn't a spy, anyway?
------------------ -Esponer Am I posting in Just Chat or B&B;? If so, I'm probably joking.
Originally posted by SilverDragon: What says that the Voinian defector isn't a spy, anyway?
The fact that the Voinian fleet goes to such lengths in order to try to kill him would seem to be fairly good evidence in his favour.
------------------ David Arthur @ (url="http://"http://davidarthur.evula.net/")davidarthur.evula.net(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/faq/")EV Nova Gameplay FAQ(/url) - Now Hosted by (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/")EV-Nova.net(/url)!
(quote)Originally posted by David Arthur: **The fact that the Voinian fleet goes to such lengths in order to try to kill him would seem to be fairly good evidence in his favour.:p But wait! Use counter counter common sense! They did that really to kill him! (and that goes on and on and on and on and on)
------------------ Insanity has its advantages **
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **What says that the Voinian defector isn't a spy, anyway?
Spies and defectors are two different things, you can't be both. The guy was a Voinian, so he can't be a human spy.
In addition guys, the story only involved YOU getting one defector. We have no idea how many there have been. Defecting isn't exactly a popular thing to do. It involves you leaving your family forever and risking your family being hurt from it. Many nations today threaten to kill or torture your family if you defect.
So you pretty much have to be single, very hateful of your government and people and willing to leave everything you've ever known behind. In the process, you have to have a real contact, in which you risk being caught by your government. When you do escape, you have to risk being caught once again (after all, they shot at the defector in EVO). Not really something you'll find a lot of people lined up for.
------------------ Live free or die
Originally posted by David Arthur: **The fact that the Voinian fleet goes to such lengths in order to try to kill him would seem to be fairly good evidence in his favour.:)
Indeed. The lengths the Voinian fleet goes to is quite considerable. Surprising, really, that they can get a fleet in Chorca, and yet are not capable of destroying a single shuttle. I'm sorry, but it strikes me as a set-up. Was it not this mission where everybody but the defector was killed trying to get onto your ship? How convenient that they fire on the other people first, and the defector just gets away.
Originally posted by Soviet mikee: Spies and defectors are two different things, you can't be both. The guy was a Voinian, so he can't be a human spy.
I never said he was a human spy -- I don't know where you're getting this. I'm suggesting that he is not a defector at all, but rather a Voinian spy, and that he pretends to defect in order to gather information on the UE and sabotage their navy. After all, if the UE after going to equip neutron weaponry on all their vessels... it would be pathetically easy to sneak one small device into each neutron weapon, that they would replicate when they mass produce the weapons, which, upon being triggered, will explode. The damage that a spy posing as a Voinian defector could do is well worth the effort the Voinians went to in ensuring humanity thought he really was a defector - the fleet in Chorca, for example.
OOOOH, I thought you were talking about him being a spy for the UE, not the V. Empire.
Originally posted by David Arthur: **Because they're unwilling to risk being killed by their own government in order to defect to an alien race which is at war with their people (and most of whose members don't exactly have a high opinion of Voinians as a race and are likely to believe they're spies or criminals), they're therefore evil? I'm not sure I follow the logic. **
Could be. I pretty much concidered the whole species evil, but the goverment could be only evil and be forcing everyone else to act as the goverment wanted. We do know that someone did do those acts of terror, but who? The goverment, the civilians forced by the goverment, or both?
Originally posted by David Arthur: **The fact that the Voinian fleet goes to such lengths in order to try to kill him would seem to be fairly good evidence in his favour. **
Yeah, deffently, unless it's some sort of set up. I'm not sure how it could be. Why would a spy give all sorts of information (ie. rockets, neturon cannons, and the lot.)
Originally posted by U.E. Admiral: **That's what common sense gets you. Try using counter common sense! They did that in order to convince the humans! But wait! Use counter counter common sense! They did that really to kill him! (and that goes on and on and on and on and on) **
I was more thinking that they were trying to kill you. They might have not even known that there "spy" was in the ship. Or those could be just goverment officals, and they are trying to stop a civilian from escaping.
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **Surprising, really, that they can get a fleet in Chorca, and yet are not capable of destroying a single shuttle. **
There isn't anyway to get into the Chorca system without going through UE space, unless they happened to take a detour around UE space at the top. Which is pretty imposible because they lack range and one of the relay stations would have cought them. Did they come through a warmhole or something? It's pretty unclear.
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(This message has been edited by Taylor (edited 12-26-2002).)
That is why there will be an EVO:TC for NOVA.
------------------
Originally posted by kauthor: **That is why there will be an EVO:TC for NOVA.
Eh?
Soviet Mikee, check the thread called What do you Want Changing?
Originally posted by kauthor: **Soviet Mikee, check the thread called What do you Want Changing?
Er I know what you are talking about, that's not really an EVO TC for Nova. That's a TC for Nova based roughly on EVO. At any rate, he should give it a name to avoid confusion between his project and the port authority TC of EVO for Nova.
Moral and philosophical debates? I support the UE, morals or no morals. Where else could you receive naval academy training and then shirk your duties just to go out and make some money? They seem to have a pretty flexible government, especially if they'll allow an admiral to grant a planet freedom. Granted we mostly see the UE from the military side, but... look at how willing they were to open talks with other races. I like their style in politics, and I like their style in ships. Got mad character.
(Pardon me if I seem misinformed on any points, it's been ages since I've played.)
------------------ "Love is what makes you smile when you're tired."
(This message has been edited by Desperado (edited 12-29-2002).)
Originally posted by Desperado: MThey seem to have a pretty flexible government, especially if they'll allow an admiral to grant a planet freedom.
Now that's interesting - that's one of the few instances that I ~disapprove~ of United Earth policy. It seems to me irresponsible to allow a military official to declare an entire planet independent without consulting any representative body. Not only does he not do it through the United Earth government, there's not even any mention of an organised attempt to find out whether the people of Huron actually ~want~ independence; the only indication that's ever given is that a small para-military group wants Huron to leave United Earth.
Originally posted by Taylor: **Yeah, deffently, unless it's some sort of set up. I'm not sure how it could be. Why would a spy give all sorts of information (ie. rockets, neturon cannons, and the lot.) **
Well, firstly, the UE already had the rocket. It strikes me that the hunter missile is just a rocket with a few modifications: the Voinians know this, and so they realise that all the UE have been doing is replicating and hopelessly fiddling with their technology, unable to harness the methods in which they work themselves.
The conclusion? Give the UE specifications for a neutron cannon and turret... which just so happens to have a tiny device in it that triggers an overload when a signal is sent from Voinia, or any Voinian ships.
It's widescale sabotage, capable of disabling or destroying the entire UE fleet, or at least rendering them unarmed (if they eschew blaze for neutron.) The reason I wonder if the Voinians were doing this is because in "Eve of Destruction", that webstory hovering up here on the EVO board, a very similar thing happened. The Miranu gave a fully functional tractor beam and repulsor beam to the Igadzra - which just so happened to have a device within that emitted a powerful EM pulse. Needless to say, the entire Igadzra navy was simultaneously disabled.
Actually, it's more absurd than you think. Chorca has three hyperlinks: leading to Valos, Mestor and Tulir. All three are UE systems. It's 20 jumps 'round so that you only go through Valos; and that takes you through 3 alien systems, or best way through is 13 jumps, going through Molos and Valos. Sol-Tulir-Chorca or Verril-Tulir Chorca are the next two shortest... but it's all absurd.
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **The Miranu gave a fully functional tractor beam and repulsor beam to the Igadzra - which just so happened to have a device within that emitted a powerful EM pulse. Needless to say, the entire Igadzra navy was simultaneously disabled. **
Very not cool.
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Originally posted by grunadulater: **Very not cool.
<hugs Grunadulater> I'm sorry. But you should have known better than to demand the Miranu give you tractor and repulsor technology on threat of their life.
For those of you who do not like the UE.
'Consider; the more renegades there are, the more UE warships must be assigned to deal with them. For every ship so assigned there is one less on the Voinian border, and the more danger there is that the war will turn aganist us. If Earth falls to the Voinians (and even today Earth is not that far from the border), so will the rest of humanity - including renegades. Every man fighting against the United Earth fleet, however good his reasons, is fighting against humanity, and that will not be tolerated.
Though you may evade your fate for a while, when your luck runs out you will have no friends to assist you, and precious little chance for mercy.'
Originally posted by Taylor: ** Though you may evade your fate for a while, when your luck runs out you will have no friends to assist you, and precious little chance for mercy.'
What about the Miranu? And the Hinwar? And the Emalghia? I'm sure the UE would find out about them sooner or later...
Originally posted by Taylor: **For those of you who do not like the UE.
Straight out of the EV:O Docs right?
------------------ Out ride the sons of Terra, Far dirves the thundering jet, Up leaps the race of Earthmen, Out, far, and onward yet - Robert A. Heinlein, The Green Hills of Earth "Saddam Hussein foregoes weapons of mass destruction (and) values human life." George W. Bush
Originally posted by Vice Admiral Ipvicus: **Straight out of the EV:O Docs right?
Correct.