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Originally posted by htjyang: **Long Live the Confederation! **
As a fan of evil (in fiction), I must agree with your arguments supporting the Confederation's inevitable, inexorable victory over the Rebellion. The Rebels are simply too poor to contend for long with a wealthier foe; the Rebels are too widely and thinly dispersed to effectively contain its more physically-concentrated enemy. And when one considers the difficulties of keeping several independent-minded governments united over a long period of time, one must conclude that the advantage here must also go to the more unified oppressor in blue.
On another note: congratulations on your moderator-ship. You've come a long way from the days when you wouldn't even register...
------------------ PlanetPhil if you lived here, you'd be home by now
Wow! htjyang registered, and now he's a moderator!! WOW!! Hey, which board does he moderate?
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To give my opinion on the subject: The rebels will eventually win. Why? It's probably all been said, but I'll do it again in my words:
-Rebel ships are very good, and EVEN if they are slightly the lesser of their Confed counterparts (which I'm not sure of), the lower cost more than compensates for this. -The Rebels stand for a good cause, so independent governments are more likely to join, or at least support, the Rebels than the Confeds. -Suppression ultimately leads to resistance. Not only from the Rebels, but also from those still oppressed. However small this might be, they will be able to aid the cause substantially as guerilla-style warfare which is extremely hard to wipe out. Not to mention that people who don't join the resistance out of fear might still aid the Rebels, should they come in contact. This aid may be very small and seemingly insignificant, but eventually will prove to be valuable to the Rebels.
Viva la resistance!
------------------ Something rumbles, far away...
(This message has been edited by Celestial Storm (edited 10-31-2000).)
If the war did end, it would be the doing of either government, but the Pirates They will attack without warning and annialate every government ship there is and take over the entire galaxy. They would have help of course, by the aliens grins evily.
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although none of us can predict the future, i would place all my money of the feds. sure i think they're scum, but still that's besides the point.
let's look at the civil war... the south had far better generals, and because of that won most of the battles that took place...but,the north still overpowered them in the end, due to the almost endless supply of resources (people/supplies).
how does that incorporate to what we're talking about? well, the feds have total control, all the resources, and the most powerful technology. sure, you argue that the rebel ships are faster :p. but what good does that do when you send an arry of nuclear bombs to bombard a planet? or raid a planet with legions of men. you can argue about the speed of a ship, but you can't argue the fact that the confederacy has total control of the map.
------------------ Jeremy Woodruff as, THE WHITE SHADOW
Originally posted by Celestial Storm: **-Rebel ships are very good, and EVEN if they are slightly the lesser of their Confed counterparts (which I'm not sure of), the lower cost more than compensates for this.
**
This is only true if both sides have equal resources. Obviously, this is not the case.
Originally posted by Celestial Storm: **-The Rebels stand for a good cause, so independent governments are more likely to join, or at least support, the Rebels than the Confeds.
Governments don't support another government because of a good cause. Governments support other governments when they have something to gain. Clearly there is more to gain from supporting the side that is bound to win.
Originally posted by Celestial Storm: **-Suppression ultimately leads to resistance.
Then greater suppression will be in order.
Originally posted by Celestial Storm: **Not only from the Rebels, but also from those still oppressed. However small this might be, they will be able to aid the cause substantially as guerilla-style warfare which is extremely hard to wipe out.
You're assuming that the Confeds will fight Vietnam War-style. I imagine the Confeds will simply declare that if anyone dares to rebel, that person's entire family and all of his friends will be executed. That should be sufficient deterrent for most people. The rest will be annihilated by attrition.
Originally posted by Celestial Storm: **Not to mention that people who don't join the resistance out of fear might still aid the Rebels, should they come in contact. This aid may be very small and seemingly insignificant, but eventually will prove to be valuable to the Rebels.
Your statement is contradictory. If it is "insignificant," then it can't be "valuable."
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I think neither would win because the Aliens will be back and they will hav e to unite so that they can fight the enemy (where have I seen this? )
------------------ Captain Orne AIM:CaptnG3 ICQ:31162561 Yahoo!:BOrnelasPT
Originally posted by Jeremy Woodruff: **although none of us can predict the future, i would place all my money of the feds. sure i think they're scum, but still that's besides the point.
how does that incorporate to what we're talking about? well, the feds have total control, all the resources, and the most powerful technology. sure, you argue that the rebel ships are faster :p. but what good does that do when you send an arry of nuclear bombs to bombard a planet? or raid a planet with legions of men. you can argue about the speed of a ship, but you can't argue the fact that the confederacy has total control of the map. **
Now let's look at the Revolutionary War. A far superior power (England) lost to a bunch of starved militias. But England lost. Why? The forces against them simply refused to give up the fight for freedom. Now there's a case where all the apparent trumps were on the losing side - better technology, better military, more troops, almost total naval control. Conclusion: you can't use analogies with existing wars, because somebody else can always find a counterexample.
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Originally posted by Wyvern: **Now let's look at the Revolutionary War. A far superior power (England) lost to a bunch of starved militias. But England lost. Why? The forces against them simply refused to give up the fight for freedom. Now there's a case where all the apparent trumps were on the losing side - better technology, better military, more troops, almost total naval control. Conclusion: you can't use analogies with existing wars, because somebody else can always find a counterexample.
I suggest that you go back and look at the Revolutionary War again. Then you'll notice that those "starved militias" had a country called France on their side. You see, France was fairly powerful at that time. Not as powerful as the British Empire but fairly close. 90% of the ammunition used by the colonials were supplied by the French. In addition, those "starved militias" also had Spain and Holland on their side, drawing away Britain's attention. I don't think there is any power in EV that comes close to the Confeds. I'm afraid that the rebels are doomed.
Of course if you can find other counterexamples, I'd be more than happy to review them with you.
Originally posted by htjyang: **Your statement is contradictory. If it is "insignificant," then it can't be "valuable." **
I wrote: SEEMINGLY insignificant. This kind of support will undermine the feds from within.
(This message has been edited by Celestial Storm (edited 11-01-2000).)
One reason is because the Confeds "Secret weapon facility" named Ruby is surroundes by Rebel planets.Getting supplies in would be hard and to carry a top secret weapon through Reabel space until 5 jumps later they meet New Providence would be impossible.There is another reason.
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"Now let's look at the Revolutionary War. A far superior power (England) lost to a bunch of starved militias. But England lost. Why? The forces against them simply refused to give up the fight for freedom. Now there's a case where all the apparent trumps were on the losing side - better technology, better military, more troops, almost total naval control. Conclusion: you can't use analogies with existing wars, because somebody else can always find a counterexample."
give me a break, england could hardly be considered a far superior power
the confederates power overcomes the rebellion by at least 10 fold...AT LEAST. remember, they raped the resources off of the rebellion planets, they have major shipyards, the rebellion was a limb off of the confederates tree. and if we were to compare ships, strategies, weapons, etc, the confederation would win hands down just because of the undoubted supply of money, metals, people, lumber, WATER, and the liking. one thing that could POSSIBLY give the rebellion an advantage, is an alliance with the pirates... but that's out of the question because we're talking about the information we're given off hand.
What the hell!? You darn Confederate lovers are sooo wrong.
Long live the Rebelion!
The Rebels will win because they are just plain better. More Reb Cruisers than confed cruisers around and there is a better chance that they will get more expansion then the Confeds. How long will the COnfeds remain self-suffecient? Not very long.
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Rebels will win, because I fly for them.
Originally posted by calenril: Rebels will win, because I fly for them.
Wow! That's actually the most logical argument I've yet seen in this topic!
He has a point.
The Rebellion's Casue attracts more privateers. You don't see Rebel Ships defecting, but you see Confed Ships defecting all the time.
Eventually the Rebels will have MUCH better leaders.
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Good point.
Originally posted by Tallgeese: **I thought both sides could come to some consensus through diplomatic means. Anyways, why limit yourselves just to Rebels and Confederation, **
Ya, I think that the pirats could kick all their butts if they stopped killing each other. (I actually support the Rebels, but I thought that I would do this anyway)
------------------ I beat ya!!!