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I am quite aware of the Alien's stats. It has a lot of significant problems though.
No turrets
Very little space to add weapons
Can't replace Seeker Drones
Default weapons get stripped if you land anyway
The fighters really aren't very powerful
Seeker Drones are very slow for a guided weapon
Now, its strengths:
High shields
fast if not particularly manuverable
Fusion beam
That's all. Personally, I think the weaknesses are far worse than it's strengths. Rebel Cruiser rules all the Cruisers.
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(This message has been edited by Macavenger (edited 07-23-2001).)
Yes, the Alien Cruiser is poor, but the fighters are excellent. Though not heavily armed, it has like 500 shields and a furious recharge rate, making it almost invincible What remains is that you lose all your outfits when entering an outfitter shop.
KK (striving for a diplomatic tone) says...
I just don't like cruisers. Not because they are too slow -- which is true -- but because I get no thrill from watching fighters do my job. Doing my own fighting is much of the thrill (and occasional agony) of the game.
That said, the Rebel Cruiser would be my choice of the three -- more for its maneuverability within the ship category.
- KK
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The Alien Cruiser has an unacceptable turning rate. The fact that it is a fast ship only makes this worse; fast ships that turn slowly are probably the hardest class to fly effectively. As for the Alien Fighter, it's almost indestructible, but ridiculously underpowered.
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The only reason I play EV is so that I can get the Rebel Cruiser. It is sleek, beautiful, and packs a punch. THe Confed Cruisr on the other hand is slow, ugly, and relies on short range weaponry. The RCA carries Mantas, which can take down a Confed Frigate in seconds. Go Rebel Cruiser.
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Quote
Originally posted by Macavenger: **It says 15. If you poke in the resources though, you'll figure out it's only 1.5. I usually use a patch that fixes this. **
The shield capacitors (sorry I mistakenly called them boosters before) are listed in ResEdit as adding 15 to your shields. But in ResEdit, all shield numbers are x10 of what they are in the game. In ResEdit, the Confed Cruiser has 8000 shielding. Weapon damages are all given in the same way: the heavy rocket shows up in ResEdit as doing around 160 damage to shields, but we all know from experience that a single heavy rocket will not kill a Kestrel.
I hope the patch you use only changes the description. If you make the shield capacitors ten times stronger, you could have a Rapier with 95 shielding for 12 tons of space. Plus, because the total time required to recharge your shields to max would remain the same, you would recharge individual units of shielding about 3 times faster than the Rapier typically does - significantly faster than the Azdara of EVO.
Clueless - I know space is not really a big issue in a Confed Cruiser, but I usually prefer to use my space as efficiently as possible in any ship. I just don't like to waste space on things that are basically useless. And even when I fly a large cruiser like that, I still manage to fill every ton.
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Originally posted by Paradigm: I know space is not really a big issue in a Confed Cruiser, but I usually prefer to use my space as efficiently as possible in any ship. I just don't like to waste space on things that are basically useless. And even when I fly a large cruiser like that, I still manage to fill every ton.
Really, you do? I just end up having too much ammo rounds to ever use up till I stop by some outfitter.
Originally posted by Clueless: Yes, the Alien Cruiser is poor, but the fighters are excellent. Though not heavily armed, it has like 500 shields and a furious recharge rate, making it almost invincible What remains is that you lose all your outfits when entering an outfitter shop.
Since you need to make a plugin in order to obtain an Alien CA or Alien Fighter, you might as well fix the outfs as well. Its been done before (see the addons page). I made an alien cruiser plugin last night. In my plug the Alien Heavy fusion beam weighs 10 tons, the alien fighter bay weighs 50 tons, the Alien fighter weighs 0 tons, the seeker launcher is 10 tons, and the seeker drone is 1 ton. Prices for ships and outfs vary between 10 and 10000 credits. Otherwise the stats are unmodified from standard EV.
The Alien CA REWLS. The turning was a bear, but plunder paid for the RCS upgrade, and 15 minutes later I was getting tribute from New Antigua and Evildrome. Nothing can stand up to 10 seconds of the heavy fusion beam; most things die in less than 1 second. Nothing can hurt the 1500 shields. The alien fighters can take down a kestrel no sweat. The seekers are slow, but they last about as long as torpedos, and the AI is too stupid to dodge them anyway. One seeker volley (they launch 4 at a time) kills anything below corvette. The alien cruiser does not need any upgrades beyond the RCS upgrade and the basics like missile jammer, ramscoop and afterburner.
(This message has been edited by magicianeer (edited 07-24-2001).)
Well, when someone finally gets EV MP to work, you just bring your alien Cruiser and I'll teach you some stuff in my Rebel. Honestly, with turning that poor, and no turrets, the Cruiser is stupid. Try playing with it against the Nova AI, I bet you get picked apart. The fighters may be invincible, but their firepower is really rather negligible. And the Seeker Drones are sooo slow that it's hilarious. I bet I could outrun them in a Light Freighter.
Originally posted by Macavenger: **Well, when someone finally gets EV MP to work, you just bring your alien Cruiser and I'll teach you some stuff in my Rebel. Honestly, with turning that poor, and no turrets, the Cruiser is stupid. Try playing with it against the Nova AI, I bet you get picked apart. The fighters may be invincible, but their firepower is really rather negligible. And the Seeker Drones are sooo slow that it's hilarious. I bet I could outrun them in a Light Freighter.
**
Rebel CA cannot catch the Alien CA. Alien CA shields can absorb over 100 missiles and/or torpedoes (assuming the Alien pilot allowed them all to hit). If the alien had turrets it would be invincible, instead of merely dominating. If you simply must have turrets, the alien has space (after mass expansion) for 3 proton or 4 laser turrets. In my alien plug, you can sell the seekers and launcher to free an additional 100 tons of space. The fusion beam + RCS upgrade makes turrets useless.
I'll try the Alien in Nova thing when Nova ships, and after I have played Nova normally.
An interesting battle to setup in a plugin is Alien CA vs Confed CA. Over the first 5 minutes, the Alien and Confed had knocked each other down to about 70% shields. Thereafter the Alien slowly gained shields while the confed continued to lose shields. If you add a Confed frigate, it becomes a stalemate. You gotta wonder how the confeds ever defeated the aliens.
------------------
Two words: Tractor Beam. That's all. I will wager that I can beat a stock Alien Cruiser with an Argosy with no upgrades other than a tractor beam and maybe Tritanium Armor, even if the Alien has a human pilot. Unless the Alien runs away, which the Argosy can't catch it then, but it will never hope to beat the Argosy that way.
Orignally posted by Macavenger: Two words: Tractor Beam. That's all. I will wager that I can beat a stock Alien Cruiser with an Argosy with no upgrades other than a tractor beam and maybe Tritanium Armor, even if the Alien has a human pilot. Unless the Alien runs away, which the Argosy can't catch it then, but it will never hope to beat the Argosy that way.
Don't forget the fighters
Originally posted by Admiral Benden: **The only reason I play EV is so that I can get the Rebel Cruiser. It is sleek, beautiful, and packs a punch. THe Confed Cruisr on the other hand is slow, ugly, and relies on short range weaponry. The RCA carries Mantas, which can take down a Confed Frigate in seconds. Go Rebel Cruiser.
I wouldn't say that the Confederation Cruiser is exactly "ugly" ( It's actually pretty cool in some respects ), it's just that the Rebel Cruiser would kill it in a beauty contest.
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Originally posted by Clueless: Don't forget the fighters
Again, their firepower is negligable. If they were human piloted they'd be worth worrying about, but since they're AIs I don't care. The maybe Tritanium is there for them, you losad up that much armor and they're stopped cold.
(This message has been edited by Macavenger (edited 07-25-2001).)
Originally posted by magicianeer: **... <snip>You gotta wonder how the confeds ever defeated the aliens. **
I believe that the game says there were only 16 Alien Cruisers involved in the war, 15 of which were destroyed. Although the Confed navy was probably smaller at the time, it would not be surprising if they had over 100 ships to use against the aliens by the conclusion of the war. The big issue would have been catching individual Alien Cruisers away from the others rather than fighting all of them at once. This makes it easier to believe that the Confeds could have pulled it off.
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Originally posted by Paradigm: **
Very reasonable answer. But I'm curious: Where did you find the information about the sixteen alien cruisers? I know for sure it wasn't mentioned in the intro text...
Confederate Cruiser
It is a sleek (with blue stars instead of the dots), lethal, and fast. With an afterburner, the three engine upgrades and decoy flares, I can outrun all torpedoes, dodge most missiles, and use the 50 decoy flares on the ones that get close. Dodging missiles is really easy because of a fault in the EV AI. Once the missiles are following you in a strait line, you dive about 125? or so to the right (or left). Because of your angle, the missiles will slide by the side you are moving away from, and then getting back on line. Because of their short range, the missiles will burn out before the reach you.
The Confed cruiser, once the neutron blasters and heavy rockets are sold, has a massive amount of space. Space for about 100 torpedoes, 4 proton cannons, 2 javelin pods (with 999 javelins), and all the other necessary add-ons. Using a Confed cruiser, I can easily defeat the occasional war fleet of a few rebel cruisers, destroyers, and numerous fighters.
Therefore, the Confed Cruiser is the ultimate cruiser one can get (without cheating).
I can just as easily defeat any Confederate battle fleet with my Rebel Cruiser, so that comparison isn't fair. Also, it take advantage of your inherent advantage of being human, not an AI, which is fine for this thread, but let's be honest, any of us could take out a much larger battle group with any of the Cruisers. As for your statement that the Confed is sleek and fast, all I can say is, it isn't. It's slow and ugly. Try flying it without the speed upgrade for a while, as I usually do with my Rebel Cruiser. Which, I might add, can still nearly outrun torps, and easily dodge ones that will get too close.
Originally posted by Macavenger: I can just as easily defeat any Confederate battle fleet with my Rebel Cruiser, so that comparison isn't fair.
I never meant that as a comparison of the Confed and rebel cruiser, just as a statement to say that the Confed cruiser doesn't suck. It can do whatever the rebel can do, but better.
Originally posted by Macavenger: Also, it take advantage of your inherent advantage of being human, not an AI, which is fine for this thread, but let's be honest, any of us could take out a much larger battle group with any of the Cruisers.
Well, this thread is for your personal best ship. But the AI Confed cruiser usually barely wins, but if a manta were thrown in, the rebels would win. Confederate fighters just suck.
Originally posted by Macavenger: **As for your statement that the Confed is sleek and fast, all I can say is, it isn't. It's slow and ugly. Try flying it without the speed upgrade for a while, as I usually do with my Rebel Cruiser. Which, I might add, can still nearly outrun torps, and easily dodge ones that will get too close. **
I never said the rebel cruiser couldn't dodge guided munitions, just that some people put that skill of the Confed cruiser in question. It isn't ugly, just of a classical design. Why should I fly without the engine upgrades? If Matt Burch didn't intend for us to use them, they wouldn't be in the game
Realistically, the two are very closely matched in firepower(when upgraded), the Confed can carry a little more stuff, perhaps, but the Rebel's fighters are better. So, the deciding factor is manuverability, which cleraly goes to the Rebels. The Confederate Cruiser has been fairly accurately described as an 80 year old pig in that regard.