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To me the Hawk Fightes have always been just a little too wimpy- they died easily and do very little damage for the price of 250,000 (from the ouft resource not ship). With just 4 laser cannons and two missiles, I feel the hawk sould be better.
Options that would make the Hawk better but still balanced: 1. 4 Protron cannons instead of 4 lasers 2. 1 Javilen pod + 50 rockets 3. 1 Heavy Rocket launcher + 2 Rockets 4. 6 missiles instead of 2 5. only cost 200,000
You can also say no change or anything else you think might help make a worth fighter.
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With the changes you made to the Hawk it whould be a heavy fighter. The weapons by them self cost 129,850 credits and the space needed (62 tons) for them would take up an Argosy and thensum. The proper price would be 300,000 or 400,000 credits.
I my self whould not change the Hawks! Since I dont use them their perfomance is irrelevant. Besides they are suposed to be pitiful and create a nuisance not unleash Armageddon.
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Originally posted by rebel council: **With the changes you made to the Hawk it whould be a heavy fighter. **
I think NNNormal is suggesting any one of those options as a change for the better, not all five together.
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Originally posted by rebel council: With the changes you made to the Hawk it whould be a heavy fighter. The weapons by them self cost 129,850 credits and the space needed (62 tons) for them would take up an Argosy and thensum. The proper price would be 300,000 or 400,000 credits.
Um, I think he ment one of the options, if not, sorry Anyways, I think they are good enough, looking at the price. They could be a little more rugged though, they get lost too easily and they have no armor so you could recover them
NNNormal, are you?
i'd give it two proton cannons, a laser cannon, 4 more missiles, and some more shield. then again, thats just me.
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Because of the bug where your fighters only get 1/2 the ammo they're supposed to, it should have 4 missiles so that you really get 2. A little Armor wouldn't hurt either, other than that, you should be able to get 4 of them, and maybe a bit more weight for the bay. 50 tons is a bit much for 2, but if you make it less ships that are too small can get one(Well, they can now, but they could do it too easily then). So it should be 4 fighters and maybe 60 tons for the bay.
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Originally posted by antihero: **i'd give it two proton cannons, a laser cannon, 4 more missiles, and some more shield. then again, thats just me.
**
You really should have just posted your sig, antihero!
martin
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The suggestions about the mass- I think it should be changed to some armor (forgot that option) and that each Hawk weighs 10-20 tons and the bay only takes ~10 tons. This way, the more fighters you have the more space you need.
If all of the option were selected the ship would be a ~good~ Rapier!
Even somewhat better. Rapier has 20 tons weapon space Modified hawk has 62.
Javilins instead of missiles, and proton cannons instead of lasers. I also think that more armour would be good. Maybe like ten points, so you could retrieve them. Another thing you could do is have variants. Like a bomber that only has a heavy rocket launcher and two Rockets. But hey, that is just me.
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I modify the Hawk this way: Speed to 375, Acceleration boosted proportinately. + 5 armor (so you can disable and capture them) 3 missiles (I never had a problem with carried ships not getting all their ammo). Bay can carry max of 4 hawks. Bay costs 250K, Hawks cost 250K.
This makes the Hawk a 'heavy' intercepter, a slower but better armed version of the Defender. Its role is to kill strike fighters before they kill the mothership. The speed boost is necessary so the hawk can chase down the strike fighters -- rapier, lightning, clipper.
2 hawks have trouble taking down 1 lightning. 4 hawks can kill a corvette (sacrificing 1-3 hawks).
250K for the hawk bay gives the player a chance to use Hawks. At the 1M price, you could upgrade to a better ship for less money than the bay + fighters. The 50 ton mass is harsh, but not unreasonable.
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If you see the stats of the hawk in ResEdit, you'll see it has some mass free for 3 more missile, and as we can't buy weapons for our carried ships, I would just like that they have the max missiles they can carry (even if the hawk costs 10000 more due to the price of the missiles).
In fact, the hawk is so pitiful because: -of its low price, to allow its being carried by not-so-rich traders -of its hyperdrive capability (one jump though); if the hawk wouldn't be able to hyperspace, it would be better and/or cost less, but even if it has no fuel, it will still follow you when you go into hyperspace and hyperspace with you, because EV doesn't handle non-hyperspace capable ships. Therefore, it has been made, in a way for trader's convenience (be able to jump without loosing you fighter off bay when there is no time to recall them), that they should be able to jump into hyperspace.
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Originally posted by martin: **:D You really should have just posted your sig, antihero!
martin **
i think your right
Originally posted by NNNormal: **The suggestions about the mass- I think it should be changed to some armor (forgot that option) and that each Hawk weighs 10-20 tons and the bay only takes ~10 tons. This way, the more fighters you have the more space you need. **
I have some fighter plugs where I do similar things, but your bay there is too light. If you put a 10 ton bay and 10 ton Hawk, you could put 3 on a Scoutship, 5 if you used expansions. That isn't right.
Originally posted by Macavenger: **I have some fighter plugs where I do similar things, but your bay there is too light. If you put a 10 ton bay and 10 ton Hawk, you could put 3 on a Scoutship, 5 if you used expansions. That isn't right.
Just set a max of 4 and make them 15 tons- wait didn't it say 10-20 tons :)?
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Originally posted by NNNormal: **Just set a max of 4 and make them 15 tons- wait didn't it say 10-20 tons:)? **
My theory has always been that carried fighters should have a mass of whatever mass they have in the shďp resource, plus possibly a ton or two for replacement ammo and the like. I then usually set the weight of the bay weight to something such that if the maximum of 4 is purchased, the total weight of the bay and fighters will be a nice even multiple of ten. So ten tons or at most 12 is the right weight for the Hawks. I'd say 12 tons and a 22 ton bay. The bay should be more, but the gap in space between big and small ships in EV isn't what it should be.
My theory is that big ships (Argosy, Corvette, Kestrel, etc ) should be far bigger and slower (ie carry far more cargo or weapons) and that bays should be heavier (100 tons) and that fighters should have a weight.
Originally posted by Zacha Pedro: **My theory is that big ships (Argosy, Corvette, Kestrel, etc ) should be far bigger and slower (ie carry far more cargo or weapons) and that bays should be heavier (100 tons) and that fighters should have a weight. **
I agree, but we're talking about Hawks here. This idea, while I think it would be ideal, would require major changes to most EV ships, which isn't that practical in terms of this discussion.
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(This message has been edited by Macavenger (edited 07-15-2001).)
To take Macavenger's point on board...
Originally posted by NNNormal: **To me the Hawk Fightes have always been just a little too wimpy- they died easily and do very little damage for the price of 250,000 (from the ouft resource not ship). With just 4 laser cannons and two missiles, I feel the hawk sould be better.
Well, In my view, since they are a quarter of the price of a lightning (the next fighter up), surely it should take 4 hawks to kill a lightning? But, since 4 hawks' missiles could easily take down a lightning or two, I'm not sure what the problem is. I think the question really should be: "upgrades and price change for the hawk?" or perhaps "Whay can't we have more than two Hawks? As Frandall says "a swarm of fighter's can be very effective".
Have said all that, maybe five laser cannons would be better. Laser cannons are v. cheap! Or was there a reason that you couldn't have that many.