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Let's add facts to this arguement. I just started playing 15 days ago, but, my Rebel Destroyers stats are as follows:
450 AU (MAX) 120Β° Turn (MAX) 355 Accel (MAX)
5 proton cannons 4 proton turrets 4 shield capacitors
Cost: Stolen
The Lightning may be fun. It may be challanging. However, it is not the best ship in the game. Destroyers can take them out with great ease. If I were to rank the best ships it would be so:
Rebel Destroyer Rebel Cruiser Corvette Lightning Rapier Argosy Clipper Shuttlecraft
------------------ Crime? What crime?... That I killed a vile noxious insect, an old pawnbroker woman, of use to no one! ... Killing her was atonement for forty sins. ... (blood) Which all men shed, which flows and has always flowed in streams, which is split like champagne, and for which men are crowned benefactors of mankind.Β
That's a modified Rebel Destroyer, so the base stats don't count!
And saying "cost: stolen" doesn't mean it's free. It still has the same cost.
You may have noticed that the Destroyer costs 250% of the Lightning but could beat 2.5 Lightnings. So have I, but I'm still clinging to the claim that the Lightning is better, now falling back on it looks good.
And will people stop ignoring cost/ship size? One of my main arguments is the power to mass ratio.
------------------ Don't play with changing names: Esponer - 130 posts Paladin - Nearly 100 posts Sylver - 1 post
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Originally posted by Emperor Ent: **Let's add facts to this arguement. I just started playing 15 days ago, but, my Rebel Destroyers stats are as follows:
**
Right on, Emporer! Even a Rebel Destroyer that ISN'T upgraded will tear a pair of lightnings to pieces very swiftly.
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Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur: **Hehe, lol! Well said Captain Skyblade.
Heh. Well I must admit, it is hard to find clean words to describe the gunboat.
...power to mass ratio.
The Lightning?
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!! hee-hee-hee-hee-hee-hee-hee!!! ho-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho-ho!!!
(Gasp! Whew!!!)
Get a 'Vette.
------------------ ΒYou will find that our crew will be either the most valuable, loyal, and trustworthy of allies, or ... if you insist on trying to swallow us up -- the worst of enemies. The choice is yours. And should you choose to fight us ... donΒt bring a knife to a gunfight!Β
Excuse me, Karl, but who are you trying to impress with your immature remarks?
And what the hell are you laughing about anyway? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Corvette has over 100 tons of mass, and the Lightning is something like 15 tons.
Now, let's see, it takes about four Lightnings to waste a Corvette with ease. That means with Lightnings you are MUCH stronger than a target with two to three times the mass.
Originally posted by SilverDragon: And what the hell are you laughing about anyway?
I laugh because I am amused. No matter how pedantic the discussion, the Lighting may as well be made of paper mache.
In the early stages of EV...
You wanna run? Get a Scoutship.
You wanna fight OR run? Get a 'Vette. (If delayed gratification is not your strong suit, get a Rapier ... as a temporary measure.)
You wanna die? Get a Lighting.
Of course, later in the game, the Rebel Destroyer is the best.
This isn't getting anywhere.
Personally, there are several things I want to call you, Karl, but I think that it'd be disturbing to other viewers to here them.
Paper mache? Really? The Defender is paper mache. The Lightning is a too small block of diamond.........
The Lightning is a much better ship then the Defender (equipt with a few laser guns and paper armor), but that still isn't saying much...
Originally posted by SilverDragon: ** Paper mache? Really? The Defender is paper mache. The Lightning is a too small block of diamond.........
Obviously, you started this thread just to see the flames
You would do better to trade the lightning in for a rapier. It has everything that the lightning has and more (proton guns instead of lasers, more rockets, torpedos, cargo space, expansion space, shields, armor). The downside is somewhat slower speed, and slightly higher price.
In computer lightning vs computer rapier, the rapier wins.
I saw a single pirate rapier take down a confed frigate (the frigate had just finished off a manta and had 95% shields when the first rapier torpedo hit). You need a pack of lightnings to do the same, and one will die in the attack.
In the ev challenge, I lost a fully equipped corvette to a pack of rapiers. I never had a problem with packs of lightnings.
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Originally posted by magicianeer: **In computer lightning vs computer rapier, the rapier wins. **
Actually no. Hardly at all, in fact.
I just spent a few minutes testing this very thing, and the results are sobering: the AI Lightning beat the AI Rapier nine times out of ten. In the last five matchups, the Lightning's shields never dipped below 100% because the Rapier never even tagged the other ship. The Lightning's speed and maneuverability enables it to literally fly circles around the clumsy Rapier. The Lightning simply flies far beyond the reach of the Rapier's proton weaponry and sends missile after deadly missile against its foe. The Rapier never even attempts to fire its most potent weapon, the torpedo, as the Lightning is simply too nimble.
Even more one-sided: eight Lightnings against eight Rapiers, all AI. In five tests, the Lightning fleet wiped out the Rapier fleet entirely. How many Lightnings were lost? Two.
As I said: sobering empirical evidence, my friends. I was prepared to bet against the Lightning (and loudly). Now I'm glad I didn't.
------------------ PlanetPhil not drowning, waving
The reason the Lightning always beats the Rapier AI vs AI is because the Rapier is equipped solely to take on capital ships, not fighters. The Lightning is equipped with missiles, which the AI will use against anything, but the AI will only use torpedos if the ship its attacking has a turn rate of less than 4. The Lightning's a more versatile fighter, particularly when controlled by the AI, but the Rapier's significantly better at taking out capital ships.
Well, I'm still glad I have somebody who at least partially supports me.
Rapiers are far too slow. Taking into account cost, the only ship that can beat the Lightning easily is the Rebel Destroyer.
2 Lightnings DO die against a Corvette, but would 2.5? If that was possible?
Would someone please test 2 Corvettes against 5 Lightnings? I think the Corvettes would win, come to think of it, but it'd be fun to hear the results.
And the same with the Rebel Destroyer. Two of them against 5 Lightnings. Now that's just impossible :), but I still support the Lightning.
Here's a neat one. 1 Confed Cruiser against 15 Lightnings.
Personally, if I want to be in a fighter, it would have to be a rapier. The extra shielding is a godsend at times, and the torpedo launcher makes short work of light capital ships. However - I don't want to get stuck in a fighter of any sort. I like my rebel cruiser, and if I can't have that, pass a destroyer please. Lightnings are dangerous in AI vs AI because they attack in swarms generally. The AI ship being attacked will keep targeted on the last ship to attack it, and with so many attacking at once (well, two), it has to keep switching. In human vs human, I think that it would be very difficult to beat anything larger than a rapier in a lightning. And no, I'm not stupid, or dumb, or a sandwich short of a picnic, or anything like that. I know what I'm talking about, and I know that Lightnings aren't a ship you want to be stuck with.
First, If you really like fighters, then the Lightning is for you. However, if you want a good ship, try a Argosy, Corvette, Kestrel, or Destroyer.
Second, SilverDragon post your Lightnings stats. I will make a plug-in where all pirates/bounty hunters/ect. will have a Lightning similar to yours. Then we can find out how well your style Lightning would match up against a better ship.
Personally, I would not want to be stuck in one, either.
No, just basic stats is what I meant.
With my stats the Lightnings would be terrible, since I take out most secondaries. My Lightning's only good with me as the pilot.
But if you really want to try I'll give you some basics:
5 Proton Cannons All shield upgrades, and don't forget shield recharge Missile launchers kept in, with 15 or so missiles Rocket launchers and javelin launchers taken out Speed upgrades
Plus, since there's no point giving it the fuel scoops I put on I suggest you set it to keep the javelin launcher and have 80 javelins - I'd usually have more but that's a nice number.
What's It's speed, accel, turn?
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **2 Lightnings DO die against a Corvette, but would 2.5? If that was possible?
And the same with the Rebel Destroyer. Two of them against 5 Lightnings. Now that's just impossible :), but I still support the Lightning. **
More news from the testing labs in ten AI-driven matchups, two Lightnings always beat a single Corvette. It's a case of too many missiles, not enough time; the Corvette is simply overwhelmed. In four of those battles, only one Lightning survived.
Two Corvettes versus five Lightnings? The Lightnings won nine times out of ten. And that tenth time, the single surviving Corvette was down to its last percent of shielding.
As for five Lightnings against two Rebel Destroyers yes, it's impossible. But still interesting. Though the Lightnings lost every time, in four matchups a Destroyer was eliminated. This is because in those instances, the Lightnings concentrated their missile fire on a single target. But even then, two Lightnings would also be destroyed, and that's the problem. It takes more than three healthy Lightnings to bring down a Rebel Destroyer.
EmperorEnt, no sorry, because I have a PC and can't check. You could work it out from what I've said, though.
PlanetPhil, thanks, you've really turned this on it's head.
I told you all the Lightning was good - maybe not as good as the Rebel Destroyer, I must now admit.
Anyone care to try a very fun, very easy, test?
10 Lightnings against 1 Kestrel (with it's own Lightnings).
I'm guessing 2-3 Lightnings will be destroyed.
o.k. look, the Lightning is an alright ship. I prefer a ship with power AND shield. The Rapier or 'vette is what I prefer below a Kestrel, but the best ship without changing anything from the time of purchase is the destroyer. The best with upgrades could be any ship depending on the upgrades and the pilot's skills. My personal favorite is the Reb Cruiser. I upgrade all of its speed turning and accel. and all of its guns maxed out with some secondary weapons, I prefer the missiles though I rarely use them.