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That's a load of rubbish, Carnotaur.
The Rebels are doing terrible at fending off the pirates. And the pirates only formed in the first place because the Confeds were either too busy fighting the aliens or blocked off by the Rebels.
So it's the Rebels fault for all the pirates.
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Originally posted by Captain Carnotaur: I disagree. Because of the Confeds stupidity they let Pirates start in the first place! In fact, the Rebels are doing a better job than the Confeds at eliminating Pirates because they are closer to them and thus it is easier for them to attack!
The reason the pirates are closer to Rebel space is that if they moved into Confederate space, they wouldn't survive. It's only because the Confederation has to concentrate on fighting off rebels that the pirates are able to operate at all.
------------------ David Arthur Talon Plugin for Classic EV: (url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")http://members.aol.c...thur1/talon-ev/(/url)
Also, if you consider that the Confeds have a much greater capacity for researching, in two to three years there ships will be MUCH better than Rebel ships.
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **Also, if you consider that the Confeds have a much greater capacity for researching, in two to three years there ships will be MUCH better than Rebel ships. **
very true silver but they'll have to research a whole crapload to be able to seriously get the upper hand on the rebelion so in two or three years the confeds might loose before that happens
------------------ The Dark Thingy Dude (hey i wanted it to sound evil)
I don't know. Ruby's been up there for quite a while.
PS: Get rid of that swearword ASAP Dominick, or you might have your karma lowered.
(This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited 04-11-2001).)
Originally posted by Dominick: **very true silver but they'll have to research a whole crapload to be able to seriously get the upper hand on the rebelion so in two or three years the confeds might loose before that happens **
Highly true, the Rebellion will easily wipe out the Confeds within a year.
------------------ To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond! -------------- Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it. Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).
**In the intrest of Confederate politics, I thought it nessesary, in all fairness, to respond to the public posting by the Rebelion in a new thread, where confederates can feel safe to reply.
All of the claims in that memo are typical Rebel propoganda. Period. **
Oooooh, now you've gone and done it. One of the staunchest Rebel advocates alive is about to punch holes in your entire argument. Be afraid, very afraid.....
First of all, for a fully comprehensive discussion on the topic of Reb vs. Confed, check out the Best of Escape Velocity posts. There is a huge topic on this, one where I posted a few times.
** Section 1: The Cause Factor How can you possibly say that there can be no debate about this? The bottom line is, no matter what your personal or political viewpoints are towards the Confederation as a whole, the Rebelion decided to remedy the situation with bloodshed. So who's the evil power here? **
The American Revolution was won with bloodshed. Wars for freedom such as World War I and II were won with bloodshed. All battles for what's right (all battles period, rally) inevitably mean bloodhsed, unfortunately. That alone doesn't make one particular side of the war bad guys. Your logic is flawed.
The rebelion seems to be on a crusade to prove that power = evil. Not so.
"Power corrups, and absolute power corrups absolutely."
-Edmund Burke
This 'evil power' is what promotes trade, and allows simple pilots to go from shuttlecraft owners to millionares in a matter of years.
Oh yes, Astex pilots you mean. Pilots who are under contract with the Confederation only, not pilots who are just Independent. Rather convenient, don't you think? The average joe who wants to be independent of everyone gets no such benefits. Admittedly the Feds do a good job of killing the Pirates and that helps everyone, but still.
And to compare the rebelion to the American revolutionaries is completely incorrect. America's revolution was started by an attack by Britian on their own land.
You need to study your history more. The Revolution may have been started by the "shot heard around the world," but America came to the point of revolution because of British oppression. They were taxed in a multitude of ways while not being represented in the British Parliament overseas. Great Britan has a mercantilist policy, which means that from their perspective all colonies under Great Britan had but one purpose--to benefit the mother country. Therefore they bled the colonies dry, and put the good of Britain ahead of the good of the American colonies. This more than anything was the cause of America's revolution against England, not because England just suddenly attacked them one day.
The Rebelion started this civil war by attacking INNOCENT confederate trade routes. The Confederation is protecting itself, not trying to initiate some insurrection, as the Rebelion would like you to believe.
The Rebellion did not start the Civil War by firing first. The Confederation started the war because as they expanded after the Great War, they took advantage of the colonies of the outer worlds and bled their resources dry, primarily to benefit the inner core worlds where the Confederate big-shots sat fat-and-happy. Don't take my word for it, start a new pilot in EV and read about it for yourself. The Confeds took advantage of the resources of the outer worlds and treated them unfairly, much like Great Britain treated the American colonies. It was for this reason that many of the outer worlds broke away and revolted to maintain their independence from the Confederation.
**Section 2: The Destroyer Factor The rebelion would like you to believe that it can produce as many Destroyers as the confederation can Frigate. Come on, think about that. Everyone knows that Destroyers are shielded frieghters, and manta fighters are left over from the great war. The truth is, the Rebelion is scrapping to get any ships (and pilots) they can get. The fact that a Destroyer can measure to a frigate is a moot point. Put a Destroyer up against a few Frigates and Cruisers, and you'll see what the final outcome of this war will be. **
Well, I won't argue with you about the Manta. It is junk compared to the patrol ship and gunboat, its advantage lies in its speed and affordability. The Destroyer, however, is far better than the Frigate. It is armed better with heavy rockets and torpedoes (missiles too if I remember right), is almost a match for the Frigate in terms of shielding, and most importantly is MUCH FASTER. The speed of the Destroyer enables it to beat out the Frigate, and despite the description in EV it can mangle any Kestrel. Furthermore, you left the Rebel Cruiser out of your equation; a heck of a detali to forget.
**Section 3: The Strategic Factor The entire point of this section is to make you believe that the Confederation is looking for the perfect oppertunity to blindly attack Rebel strongholds. This is, again, pointless, but the Confederation is only intrested in doing what it can to protect itself and it's citizens. **
AND to re-take the Rebel worlds and take them back under their control again. Do you honestly think that the Feds would just let those worlds lie out there if they were to actually beat the Rebellion? Come on. Further, they have to defend themselves because they mis-treated the outer worlds, which in turn rebelled. If they had not treated them in a tyrannical manner before, they wouldn't be in the situation they are in.
If you want to see the truth, all you have to do is look at any galactic map. Look, the rebelion forms a complete circle around all Confederate systems. If this doesn't look like agressive tactics, I don't know what does.
What do you expect when you expand OUTWARD from the inner systems, mistreat them and force them to revolt? Its absurd to think they WOULDN'T be surrounded. Either way its a moot point, I fail to see how the layout of the galaxy has any bearing on who is right and who isn't. Its just by chance, if it were the other way around nothing would be different.
**All the rebelion is doing is preventing the Confederation from expanding. And wether they know it or not, they're preventing progress. Who knows how many systems out there are rich in untapped resources. The Rebelion doesn't have the funding or manpower to even discover them, and they're preventing the Confederation from reaching them. **
That is the fault of the Confederation for taking advantage of the outer worlds. see above. You can't blame either side if there's no expansion, there's a war going on after all (one the rebels alone didn't start, I might add)
In conclusion, the rebelion has to keep feeding you these lies to make sure that everyone thinks of them as the 'good' power, because if they stop, you'll begin to realize all the things I've discussed here. Lets simplify things. When was the last time you saw a Confederate warship attack an unarmed trader?
When was the last time you saw a Rebel warship attack an unarmed trader? Lets not deceive anyone; niether side attacks independent traders. Only Rebel or fed vessles in opposing areas of space.
The Confederation wants only to protect itself, nothing more.
Wrong. See my response 3 or 4 responses above.
UEC
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(This message has been edited by UE Crusader (edited 04-11-2001).)
Intresting, I'd never thought about that.
(This message has been edited by The Jazzman (edited 04-11-2001).)
Heh. I can tell already that this user is what themacind calls a 'Flaming badass poster'.
The American Revolution was won with bloodshed. Wars for freedom such as World War I and II were won with bloodshed. All battles for what's right (all battles period, rally) inevitably mean bloodhsed, unfortunately. That alone doesn't make one particular side of the war bad guys.
Ok, a small lecture at this point to prove that people die in war... with no point. I wasn't saying that the Rebels are evil because they kill, I was saying that they're evil because they use killing as a solution; an easy way out. By starting a war they make themselves look good, (by being the underdog). The Rebellion organized themselves and said "You don't give us any representation or power, therefore we're going to kill you now."
Another cryptic statement that conveniently happens makes the Confederation look evil, in a non-specific way, and has little relevance to the ethics of the Rebellion. I wish I had a nickel for every one of those.
Oh yes, Astex pilots you mean. Pilots who are under contract with the Confederation only, not pilots who are just Independent. Rather convenient, don't you think?
No, any pilot can run missions and play the market and be in a decent ship in under a year. (But, that's no fun, as everyone knows )
You need to study your history more. The Revolution may have been started by the "shot heard around the world," but America came to the point of revolution because of British oppression. They were taxed in a multitude of ways while not being represented in the British Parliament overseas.
How different history would be if America had crossed the Atlantic and launched an attack on Britain, instead of the other way around. Not only would they have lost, but they would have been remembered as fools. The Confederation didn't attack fringe worlds because of defiance, they defend themselves because of attacks FROM an organized military Rebellion, who are not only murderers (attacking non-military ships), but they're also terrorists (organized, premeditated attacks on Confederate VIP ships). I wonder if those mercenary pilots the Rebellion hires ever wonder if there are families on those VIP ships...
The Rebellion did not start the Civil War by firing first. The Confederation started the war because as they expanded after the Great War, they took advantage of the colonies of the outer worlds and bled their resources dry, primarily to benefit the inner core worlds where the Confederate big-shots sat fat-and-happy.
We obviously have very different definitions of war. "You take advantage of our worlds so we blow up your traders." Lesser of two evils?
Well, I won't argue with you about the Manta. It is junk compared to the patrol ship and gunboat, its advantage lies in its speed and affordability. The Destroyer, however, is far better than the Frigate.
You seem to have misunderstood me. I agree that a Destroyer can take a Frigate. But I also think that the Confederation can/does produce more ships than the Rebellion. While this doesn't help against those wandering Rebel Destroyers who destroy anything painted blue, it does help against the organized battles against the Rebellion (I.E. the fights that count)
Do you honestly think that the Feds would just let those worlds lie out there if they were to actually beat the Rebellion?
No, there's lots of things they would do. They'd expand to new systems, discover new life, put the war funds to technological advancement, eliminate the pirate threat, the list goes on and on. Things they can't do because the Rebellion is stopping them.
What do you expect when you expand OUTWARD from the inner systems, mistreat them and force them to revolt? Its absurd to think they WOULDN'T be surrounded. Either way its a moot point.
Heh. You try to use my own verbal expressions against me, so I won't even dignify it. (If I were a Rebel, I would start a war, but.... well, nevermind.)
When was the last time you saw a Rebel warship attack an unarmed trader?
So many a times have I felt sorry for the small shuttlecraft who almost makes it out of the system before being hit by 10 or 20 missles fired by the Rebel Cruiser who blindly saw the Confederate affiliation in his targeting box.
Personally, the Rebels are the better.
Everything I've said is just trying to turn it around. The Rebels are good, intelligent rebels. They fight for what they believe in, and they have to go to extreme lengths to do it.
And since when has a Rebel mission been bad either?
When it comes down to it, neither side is truely the evil one.
Ambrosia set that up to reflect on life, I think.
The revolutionary war was caused by some hot heads with lots of propaganda. See "Boston Massacre" and the Tea Party. They were getting the tea cheaper than they could smuggle it so I don't get why the tea party occured. The First World War was not a rightous war or anything like that. It started with the assasination the Austrian archduke Ferdinand in Serbia, Austria declaring war on Serbia, Russia intervening and then a hell of a lot of alliances coming into play. The First Nuclear War (WWII) was caused by the invasions by Germany, Italy, and Japan. The holocost wasn't considered at all. It was simply a war to stop these countries. The only justified wars were WWII, Korea, Nam, and Gulf War and these were to restore rightful governments back to power or defend them from foriegn agression. And before you start to argue about Nam I will point out that Viet Cong was a North Vietnam supplied rebellion against the Democratic (although harsh) government of South Vietnam, a clear act of agression. And if any Brits wants to keep argueing the point they should just shut up. Nam and Korea were U.S. alone pretty much, Gulf War they did hardly anything and WWII they needed our help just to keep from starving to death. After Dunkirk they didn't even have any guns!
------------------ Programming today is a race between software build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning.--Rich Cook
Originally posted by SilverDragon: ** Ambrosia set that up to reflect on life, I think.
**
Off topic, but Ambrosia clearly chickened out with the dull, formulaic EVO plot (humanity vs the evil aliens)
Ok... as intresting as these little history lessons are, they don't have anything to do with the Confederate/Rebelion civil war. Let's not turn this thread into the original Rebel Memo... that one has become rather dull...
(This message has been edited by The Jazzman (edited 04-14-2001).)
Originally posted by magicianeer: Off topic, but Ambrosia clearly chickened out with the dull, formulaic EVO plot (humanity vs the evil aliens)
Agreed, but Nova will be better: six major human governments, all with their own pros and cons.