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Forgot Sirgil's "huge" defense fleet: 1,255 Mantas on Sirgil III, 11,005 Rebel Destroyers on Sirgil Starport. But if you used that defense fleet to evacuate both Sirgil Starport and Sirgil III, it wouldn't be there to begin with, and evacuating a planet using Destroyers and Mantas wouldn't work, they're warships, not Freighters or passenger liners.
So they'd stay and fight. Obviously the Confederation would have the numbers to handle the defense fleet, otherwise they wouldn't attempt an invasion. But they'd have to have the ships to maintain operations everywhere else. Or at the very least defend Confed space. So, figure at least 12,000 Frigates, with several hundred Cruisers, and at least 20,000 Gunboats to provide support for the Frigates. That's a conservative estimate, usually an invading force wants a minimum of 3 times the numbers the enemy has, so it would likely be 33,015 Frigates, but the Cruiser force, probably 1,000 or so, would counter that problem a little, as would the Gunboat support.
Granted, this is based on the number of Destroyers packed into a space station, which is not a realistic number. Especially when compared to the number of Destroyers out actually fighting the war, there should just be more of them out there if they have so many to spare.
Looks like the whole war's nothing but a war of attrition to me, not a good way to fight a war, if you want anything left to control when you win.
Well put cable_guy..
Any attack on sirgil (or anywhere else) must account for rebel forces coming from nearby systems. If the rebel forces in the area could obliterate the attack fleet, then you (at palshife) need not have been concerned about it, and the scenario does not obtain. Ships entering and exiting hyperspace are vulnerable to attack for a few seconds (ever been jumped by a pirate lightning when entering Darven?), so if you choose to run the blockade, will need to address the blockaders with at least a rear guard. The rebel speed advantage will mitigate this somewhat. If you avoid the blockade, then it did its job-- you were forced to take a longer route. To reach sirgil, the confeds must pass through pelagon. I suppose you could hide the north strike force in Tryvin or Jadzia, but the confeds will have 4-6 days in Sirgil to break things instead of 1-3 days. New France will not be blockaded. Rebel warships passing through it will be the signal for the confeds to bug out. Your best bet would be to tell Ahdara and Agena to send ships to Sirgil, then send ships from the north to ahdara to make up the shortage there. This is the same number of jumps as running the blockade with ships from spica.
For the RAF, having radar made the air battle more akin to sighted men shooting blind men. This is an example of superior technology overcoming other deficiencies. The rebels of EV do not have a similar edge.
The foolishness of WWI tactics is well established, but they worked if you had enough men (more than the enemy had bullets) and can be carried out successfully even by the stupidest confed commander.
I concede that superior tactics and/or position can beat numbers-- if you have enough bullets.
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Originally posted by Loki: **Forgot Sirgil's "huge" defense fleet: 1,255 Mantas on Sirgil III, 11,005 Rebel Destroyers on Sirgil Starport. **
Bull$#!+
I have dominated sirgil before, you must have miscalculated. The Defcount for sirgil III is 1255 with defdude 138 The Defcount for sirgil starport is 11005 with defdude 158
The EV Bible Annotated edition by Matt Burch and Andrew Glasgow **DefenseDude Which type of dude to use for the defense fleet: -1 Ignored (no defense ships) 128-255 ID number of the dude resource to use to determine the defense ships' characteristics
DefCount The number of ships in the defense fleet. If you set this number to be above 1000, ships will be launched from the planet or station in waves. The last number in this field is the number of ships in each wave, and the first 3-4 numbers (minus 1 from the first digit) are the total number of ships in the planet's fleet. For example, a value of 1082 would be four waves of two ships for a total of eight. A value of 2005 would create waves of five ships each, with 100 ships total in the planet's defense fleet. Oddly enough, some values in this field will result in no defense fleet at all, so make sure to check in the game to see if your numbers work. You can always copy an existing spöb's defcount, if you're uncertain. **
dude 138 is "Rebel Intercepters" - a manta dude 158 is "Destroyer Intercepters" - a destroyer
defcount 1255 works out to 25 ships (mantas) in waves of 5 defcount 11005 yields 100 ships (destroyers) in waves of 5
Thus, Sirgil is defended by 25 mantas and 100 destroyers, which attack in packs of 5.
Some other interesting defcounts from EV 1.0.5... Earth: Defcount 32765 DefDude 157 (2,276 frigates in waves of 5) Stardock Alpha: defcount 32765 Defdude 157 Luna: Defcount 32765 defdude 137 (2,276 fighters (60% patrol ship 40% gunboat) in waves of 5) Mars: Defcount 32765 defdude 137 Ruby: Defcount 32765 defdude 137
Palshife: Defcount 1284 Defdude 158 (28 destroyers in waves of 4) Spica: defcount 1284 defdude 158 Clotho Prime: defcount 1355 defdude 138 (35 mantas in waves of 5) Clotho II: defcount 1062 defdude 138 (6 mantas in waves of 2) Akio: defcount 1124 defdude 138 (12 mantas in waves of 4) Port Oread: defcount 1355 defdude 138 Adhara: defcount 1102 defdude 138 (10 mantas in waves of 2) Sentinal station: defcount 1405 defdude 138 (40 mantas in waves of 5)
Sorry, the rebel fleet just isn't there yet :frown:
You rebels disgust me. Your history examples are total crap. The reasons that Germany and Japan lost were stupid commanders and sheer luck. See Hitler and Battle of Midway and the Turkey Shoot for examples. Second, if you take a battleship and a destroyer or cruiser, who will win? The cruiser might sail rings around the battle ship but a single salvo from the battleship puts in end to this arguement. Also you say that any confed army would be destroyed by a rebel battlegroup. Well, ignoring the fact that there is such a thing as confed space support and control, there is the fact that relatively little protection is needed to defend ones self from a nuclear blast. See the U.S. Navy's BlueJackets Manuel for further reference. And I agree, in the game the rebel ships are better. However, the confederate's can easily smash the rebels in real life. Also why do you point to the United States as a shining beacon of democracy? The British have a much more sensible government. Also the United States does have a wide class of slaves. Everyone below the age of 18. Look at the rights of these people and you will see what I mean. Finally, would you prefer hard labor or the total annihilation of the Human race? As you may recall from the intro, the aliens came and destroyed quite a few of the outer colonies. The Confederacy was formed to destroy this menace and protect Humanity from future alien attacks using whatever means neccesary. When I look up some more reason why the rebels are pathetic idiots I will be back.
------------------ "You have committed a fatal error and your existence must be terminated." Windows error message.
Oops! My goof, forgot about how defense dudes work, my bad. I thought it was a little high, but I've always found dominating planets to be incredibly boring. Thanks for the clarification though.
Actually spl_cadet, if you continue reading the opening sequence, it says, "But the confederation was unwilling to give up it's power, and, aided by the powerful confederation navy, began a rule of tyranny and opression". The point is that whilst the confederation were the good guys during the great war, they are now the bad guys, ruled by the fat cats in the senate on earth. The insurrection produced the rebellion, who were fighting for equal rights and an end to the tyranny. Whether it would be any different if the rebels overthrew them is questionable, but we can't predict the future. Who's to say that once the rebel admirals take control they won't start oppressing the former confederate worlds? I couldn't say... I'm just a pilot fighting for the cause, not an admiral. And yes, you're right about some of the greatest pilots in the battle of britain being foreign. New Zealand, Australia, Canada all contributed, and we owe them one. The truth is that Britain won. It was certainly messy, but there's never been such thing as clean battle, has there? However, we did have radar... a device used to detect incoming planes. You say the rebels haven't got such an advantage... have we forgotten the cloaking device? Yes, if a whole fleet used one each, then no ship would have any shield. But in my cruiser I've got 60 tons of cargo space, I could fill that with shield capacitors and an auxillary fuel tank. It needn't destroy my shields. So a whole fleet could slip in, without any planet knowing before it's too late.
Oh yeah, and yes, Britain is evil. But at least we aren't governed by a hillbilly with the world's largest nuclear arsenal under his thumb.... Plus, I could evacuate people with destroyers. Think about it, how much cargo space has a destroyer got? I can't remember exactly, but it's quite a bit, and 11,005 or whatever amount of destroyers could easily evacuate sirgil III. Most of the people on Sirgil Starport are there just to stock up on ammo or whatever and can escape in their own ship, so they could just run for it themselves. The mantas could just escape out of the system, either back to Virgo or east towards Emerald, drop off the civilians, and meet up with the forces from Darkstar and the other southern rebels (Adhara etc) in either Nexus, or Pelagon. Some could also wait in the system next to Sirgil that's uninhabited. It would be a useful two pronged attack. Plus, you could mine the whole space surrounding sirgil, so that when the feds jump in, they jump right into a mine field. We know exactly what mines, or rather space bombs do to a cruiser, I doubt the force would survive much.
Pathetic Confed propoganda (would use swear words, but decided against it)!!!
Originally posted by spl_cadet: You rebels disgust me. Your history examples are total crap. The reasons that Germany and Japan lost were stupid commanders and sheer luck. See Hitler and Battle of Midway and the Turkey Shoot for examples. Second, if you take a battleship and a destroyer or cruiser, who will win? The cruiser might sail rings around the battle ship but a single salvo from the battleship puts in end to this arguement.
Well, let me put things in prospective for you: Wars on land and wars in space are not exactly alike. A Rebel Cruiser can easily take out a Confed Cruiser if piloted correctly. It's not anything like the sea battles on Earth.
Originally posted by spl_cadet: Also you say that any confed army would be destroyed by a rebel battlegroup. Well, ignoring the fact that there is such a thing as confed space support and control, there is the fact that relatively little protection is needed to defend ones self from a nuclear blast. See the U.S. Navy's BlueJackets Manuel for further reference.
That's one pathetic excuse. And yeah, any Confed fleet would be destroyed by a Rebel battlegroup because all the Rebels have to do is use the right tactics and, BOOM! No more Confed fleet.
Originally posted by spl_cadet: And I agree, in the game the rebel ships are better. However, the confederate's can easily smash the rebels in real life.
Hypocrite! First you say that the Rebels have better ships, then you suddenly say the Confeds can whoop them!
Originally posted by spl_cadet: Also why do you point to the United States as a shining beacon of democracy? The British have a much more sensible government. Also the United States does have a wide class of slaves. Everyone below the age of 18. Look at the rights of these people and you will see what I mean. Finally, would you prefer hard labor or the total annihilation of the Human race? As you may recall from the intro, the aliens came and destroyed quite a few of the outer colonies. The Confederacy was formed to destroy this menace and protect Humanity from future alien attacks using whatever means neccesary.
That is the most stupid excuse for the Confeds. People under 18 are slaves? Come on! That's just your tiny opinion that is just as stupid as saying that forced labor is good. What you said is just plain and simple Confed propoganda ignoring the fact that if you had been a slave, you would have hated it. Look at the intro! It clearly states that the Confederation is a tyrannical and opressive government that uses its power (which is slowly shrinking because of the Rebels) to hold order. They are some nice guys who want to save the human race. They are just tyrants, and will eventually come to an end. It is inevitable, and it has happened with every single other tyrannical government to date.
Originally posted by spl_cadet: **When I look up some more reason why the rebels are pathetic idiots I will be back. **
Meanwhile, we Rebel supporters will be waiting here to flame your small and weak reasons to support the opressive Confeds.
Originally posted by Loki: Granted, this is based on the number of Destroyers packed into a space station, which is not a realistic number. Especially when compared to the number of Destroyers out actually fighting the war, there should just be more of them out there if they have so many to spare.
Unrealistic? I call over 3,000 Confed Frigates on one small station (Stardock Alpha) an unrealistic number.
------------------ To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond! -------------- Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it. Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).
Originally posted by cable_guy: **However, we did have radar... a device used to detect incoming planes. You say the rebels haven't got such an advantage... have we forgotten the cloaking device? Yes, if a whole fleet used one each, then no ship would have any shield. But in my cruiser I've got 60 tons of cargo space, I could fill that with shield capacitors and an auxillary fuel tank. It needn't destroy my shields. So a whole fleet could slip in, without any planet knowing before it's too late. **
Actually, I, not spl_cadet, said the rebels haven't got an advantage like radar. I did forget about the cloaking device, it is a huge advantage. But, since a ship must be uncloaked to enter hyperspace, and cannot cloak while in hyperspace, the confeds will see the ships arrive before they cloak. So the confeds will know rebels are there, but cannot do anything about it (other than blanket all of the strategically important areas with ships) until the rebels reveal themselves.
spl_cadet said: **Second, if you take a battleship and a destroyer or cruiser, who will win? The cruiser might sail rings around the battle ship but a single salvo from the battleship puts in end to this arguement. **
The vocabulary that we use for ships in EV is scrambled. In traditional naval terms, an EV cruiser would be a battleship, an EV destroyer/frigate would be a cruiser. EV has nothing equivilent to the aircraft carrier, and the max ships limit (32 I think) prevents it being created.
spl_cadet said: **Finally, would you prefer hard labor or the total annihilation of the Human race? As you may recall from the intro, the aliens came and destroyed quite a few of the outer colonies. The Confederacy was formed to destroy this menace and protect Humanity from future alien attacks using whatever means neccesary. **
The forced labor began after the war and lasted 15 years. Forced labor after the war cannot have contributed to winning the war.
There is nothing in EV about any plans to defend against a future alien threat. The intro states "Within eight years, the enigmatic alien marauders were extinct." Of course, the Alien mission contradicts this statement. The aliens' return is a suprise to both the confeds and the rebels. They are not prepared to handle it, so they send YOU.
cable_guy said: **However, in human vs. human, the first thing that the rebel would do is stay out of turret range, allowing the patrol ships to come to him or her, then releasing the mantas to take them out, whilst taking out any patrol ships that stray within gunning range. Therefore, the manoeverable ships are taken out, and it's one-on-one. Mantas redock, then take off again with a full compliment of missiles launched at the fed cruiser. It will fire torpedoes at your cruiser, but these are easily avoided because of the manoeverability. However, the fed will not be able to avoid your missiles. Shields now down to, at the most, 75%. This is enough of a headstart for the rebl cruiser to take down the fed with guns and heavy rockets, making sure to stay behind the fed, well away from the neutron cannons. **
This is my take on how human vs human would go. The cruiser duel with "humans" flying all of the ships involved...
The tactics will depend on the objectives of the combatents. Here, I assume that the confeds must kill all the rebels and the rebels must kill all of the confeds. The ships are 1 fully upgraded confed cruiser + 4 carried PT boats and 1 fully upgraded rebel cruiser + 4 carried Mantas. I first consider "reasonably" upgraded ships -- Something you would fly around with regulary. 30 or so torpedos, may or may not have missles and heavy rockets, no space bombs, full armor, shield, engine upgrades. Later I consider extreme upgrades which equip the ship specifically to fight the duel while reducing its general usefulness.
General observations:
The confed cruiser must conserve its shields and fuel, and never let the rebel get close unless the confed has superior shields. The confed cannot rely on guided or forward weapons to do damage, but guided weapons can make the rebel evade and break off an attack.
The rebel cruiser cannot survive a turret-only battle with the confed cruiser. At long range, the rebel will use guided weapons to reduce the confed shields to below 500 while avoiding damage to himself. At close range, the rebel must exploit mistakes by the confed and hit with his forward weapons to supplement turret fire while avoiding the confed forward weapons.
The rebel speed and agility gives him the the choice of when to engage and at what range, but the confed cruiser is fast enough to dictate the flight path of the engagement (ie, the rebel cannot fly circles around the confed).
The duel with "Reasonable" Mods:
The patrol ships and mantas will fight each other. The victorious fighters will empty their long range weapons into the enemy cruiser, then return to their mothership (perhaps repeatedly). Its also possible that the one side or the other will forgo the fighter duel and keep its fighters for fire support when the cruisers get close. Neither side will send its fighters against the other cruiser until later in the battle.
The rebel can expect most of his guided shots to hit, while the confed can expect most of his to miss. At long range, the confed will fire torpedos and missles in small clusters to make the rebels dance. The confed must conserve torpedos for close range. The rebel will empty his supply of guided munitions into the hull of the confed cruiser, then close for the kill.
The confed cruiser will run from the rebel cruiser along a curved path, eventually flying in wide circles with the rebel cruiser following closely. The circular flight pattern makes it very hard for the rebel cruiser to bring its forward weapons on the confed cruiser. Also, the path allows the confed to "lob" torpedos at the rebel with a much better chance of hitting. If the rebel does not follow, then the confed will recover from damage inflicted by the long range attack and life gets much harder for the rebel. If the either cruiser has fighters remaining they should be lauched and ordered to attack at this stage (and recalled if the rebel breaks off).
Both sides will attempt variations on the flight pattern. Either player can attempt an afterburner boost to cut across the circle and bring forward weapons to bear. Either player may choose to drift for a bit and turn more sharply.
The rebel may choose not to launch a long range attack (or simply save some of his torpedos), but wait until he is close to the confed before firing torpedos. The rebel can expect a 100% hit rate, and victory if he can stay close long enough. The confed will use the same circle and lob tactic hoping to force the rebel to break off and dodge torpedos while he recovers.
I favor the confed cruiser in this battle. The shield advantage is just too much for the rebel cruiser to overcome on a regular basis. If the rebel's initial attack fails, then he must rely heavily on his forward weapons to defeat the confed. The fight could end in a stalemate, with the rebel unwilling to allow the confed into gun range, and unable to do sufficient damage at long range to make a gun battle winnable.
Extreme mods: These are modifications you might use if you knew what ship you would be fighting against.
The rebel cruiser could be equipped with 100+ torpedos and destroy the confed cruiser from just outside turret range. The confed does not have an answer for this except to use afterburners to dodge until fuel runs out, then he is doomed.
The confed could mount 200 missiles. The rebel cruiser does not dodge them well even with the missile jammer and engine upgrades. Firing the 200 missles will take longer than firing 100 torpedos, and the confed cannot aim and dodge simultaneously (jammed missiles turn so slowly that they must be aimed in the general direction of the target or they are useless).
The tracter beam is deadly in this engagement. It can stop the confed from circling away, or slow the rebel enough for the confed to bring forward guns to bear. Which ever ship has it will win. If both of them have it, then... I think the rebel will win, hard to say.
Spacebombs.. I never use spacebombs, so I can't say how they would influence the fight, but I am sure it will be a big impact.
So you say that a rebel cruiser with max mods cannot dodge missiles. I beg to differ. A maxed out cruiser, rebel or fed, would have all the manoeverability upgrades. A rebel ship, once it has started a circling run outside of turret range, will be able to throw off the missiles, because it can turn tightly enough and has enough speed so that the missiles overshoot and burn up before they can come back in. 200 missiles fired quickly? Easily done. It's easy to outrun missiles launched simultaneously from 10 ships in different areas, so launched one at a time from a cruiser which may well be stationary are easy to avoid. I would take down the patrol ships, which, once they have unloaded their weapons, have two choices; do runs at the enemy cruiser, or redock and re-arm. In EV, you have infinite missiles to reload with, but since we're talking human vs human, not possible in EV, we might as well say that there is a finite number of missiles to reload with, so the rebel cruiser could dodge for as long as is necessary, or unload missiles onto the fed patrol ships or gunboats. Then fire the torpedoes or missiles into the fed, mantas redock and unload their missiles, and I believe that the more modified you make the cruisers, the less chance there is of the confederate winning the battle.
Dang. This is the biggest rivalry in the world. By the way, I am not anti-british. Aside from their humor I like them. And I am not a hypocrite when I say that the rebel destroyer is better in the game but the confed frigate would beat it in real life. Also, I was using an analogy to compare the BB and confed ships. And if you guys don't believe me about how easy it is to survive a nuke blast I suggest you read the Bluejackets manual.
Oh yeah, just want to remind you that killing innocent civilians, political assasination, and piracy are all forbidden by the Geneva Conventions. Finally, there was no indication that there wouldn't be a second alien race bent on destroying us. Besides, find the justification in destroying shuttlecraft.
Originally posted by spl_cadet: Oh yeah, just want to remind you that killing innocent civilians, political assasination, and piracy are all forbidden by the Geneva Conventions.
Who even says the Geneva Conventions matter. It's not the Rebels fault, they are just trying to actually WIN A WAR, GET THE PICTURE? It doesn't matter whether or not they are "Helpless little merchent vessels" TRANSPORTING CARGO, WEAPONS, AND SUPPLIES FOR THE CONFEDS! The Rebels are smart enough to realize that if they destroy the Confed merchents, the Confeds loose cargo, weapons, supplies, and maybe even troops that were on those ships. If you guys REALLY want the Confeds to win the Galactic Civil War and if the Confeds are REALLY THAT smart as you say they are, then you would realize that sometimes you need to go to drastic measures to win a war.
Originally posted by spl_cadet: Finally, there was no indication that there wouldn't be a second alien race bent on destroying us.
But it works both ways, was there any indication they WERE going to come? No. Besides, does it say in the intro that the Confederation put the outer colonists into forced labor and began a reign of oppression and tyranny to defend against another alien race? NO!
Originally posted by spl_cadet: **Besides, find the justification in destroying shuttlecraft. **
Read my statement above.
Originally posted by spl_cadet: **Dang. This is the biggest rivalry in the world. By the way, I am not anti-british. Aside from their humor I like them. And I am not a hypocrite when I say that the rebel destroyer is better in the game but the confed frigate would beat it in real life. Also, I was using an analogy to compare the BB and confed ships. And if you guys don't believe me about how easy it is to survive a nuke blast I suggest you read the Bluejackets manual. **
I don't care about the bluejackets manual, nukes aren't used in EV.
And yes, you are a hypocrite when you say that the Rebel destroyer is better but the Confed Frigate can still beat it. That's like saying "The Rebel Destroyer always beats the Confed Frigate but the Confed Frigate always beats the Rebel Destroyer". It doesn't matter if its "In the game" or in "Real Life". The problem with the Confed Frigate is that's its too slow and turns WAAAY too slowly to hurt the Rebel destroyer, which easily zips around the Confed Frigate pounding it with torpedoes. It's all part of how the Confed Frigate and Rebel Destroyer were designed, and whether its in the game or not doesn't matter.
They also carry food, medical supplies, and other neccesities of life. But that's only a small part of it.
The reason the Geneva Conventions matter, and why all rules of war have always mattered, is that a war without honor is no longer a war. It becomes nothing more than large-scale mass murder. Even when shipping lanes are hit, the combatants are supposed to avoid killing non-combatants. A good example of that would be the American privateers employed by the French. Instead of sending their warships after British shipping, they sent the privateers, who would board and capture the cargo, killing people who put up resistance (They became combatants), but otherwise leaving people alone. Privateering was outlawed as part of the peace agreement between the French and the British, but I doubt an agreement as old as that would apply to EV.
And something to think about, if the Rebels were so noble, why would they kill non-combatants? It would be far more important for them to maintain the image of fighting for a just cause, to gain support, as well as add more worlds to the Rebellion. The independent worlds obviously depend upon interstellar trade for a large part of their economies, and I doubt any of them would want to get mixed up with a group that kills merchants, since merchant ships are far too valuable.
You'd never see Zaxted Starport, Diphidia, Levo, Maxwell's Purchase, or New Bulgaria ever joining the Rebellion, not because of their cause, but because of their actions. All those worlds do a significant amount of trading with the Confederation, are all those ships carrying weapons and troops? Of course not, yet they're attacked and destroyed by Rebels, in the territory of a soveriegn nation who's engaged in trade with the Confederation. So the Rebels don't respect the rights of those independent worlds, yet claim to want freedom for all? An end to tyranny? They act as if they only want to control the galaxy, and kill anything that gets in their way.
Lets face it, rebel equipment is superior in a real life battle, and in EV the detroyer-frigate battle is more common and is where the rebels always win. War doesn't have honour. If you believe that a war can be honorable, or fun, or anything like that, then you're wrong. You can have good leaders, yes, and people can do an honorable thing (hell, the british actually had a football match with their german opposites in no-mans land between the trenches on christmas day during WWI, and even exchanged gifts) but at the end of the day, nothing where millions of innocent die can be accused of being honorable. So in the 22nd (or is 23rd, or 24th...) century, I doubt nobility or honour enters into the equation. It's a win-at-all-costs attitude that keeps each side alive. On my pilot file, Zaxted Starport, Levo, New Istanbul, Diphidia, Maxwell's Purchase, Hera & Zeus, Opal, New Scotland & Ireland, Darven and Pereus (any other independents I left out) belong to me... well, I dominated them anyway, and seeing as I'm a rebel, in theory they belong to the rebels (I now pronounce these planets to be ruled by the REBELLION... and the crowds all applauded, for it was the noble thing to do...). Plus Matar, Capella, New Britain, New France and a couple of other Fed worlds). It doesn't matter what they think about the government, one small fleet could soon change their opinion, in either direction... but preferably the rebels. ...hang on a sec... what's wrong with British humour? If anything, you Americans (and you should note I bear no grudge against the Yanks, they're a great bunch of folks...)should look at your own shows. Yes, there are a few good ones (e.g. Frasier, Cheers, Married with Children) but most (yes, you, FRIENDS) are rubbish. How can you find friends funny?
My say on the subject: Here!Here! I like the Rebelion and, as so, have made a plug: (url="http://"http://blake.prohosting.com/~madman80/RebelBattleship1.2.sea")Rebel Battleship(/url) to make the Confederation lose, like they should. It adds a new ship, new dudes, systems, stellar objects, and missions. Enjoy!
Actually I don't watch cheers or friends. That's for girls. I prefer anime and sci-fi. And as regarding the fact that british humor is insane... my dad and his family are from England and I've seen things like faulty towers. I rest my case. And if you disregard honor when you fight a war you have no right to call yourself a soldier. Take that you rebel scum.
Originally posted by spl_cadet: **And if you disregard honor when you fight a war you have no right to call yourself a soldier. Take that you rebel scum. **
And if you honestly think that forced labor is bad and if you don't have honor you aren't a soldier, then you're not only the scum of the universe, but you act realy stupidly.
If you talk all about this "Geneva Convention Rules blah blah blah", and if you REALLY care for the lives and welfare of "Poor little helpless merchants", then get it through your head that forced labor is also bad! Otherwise, your just a hypocrite!
The Geneva Conventions were all entered into force by 1950.
By the time we enter the world of Escape Velocity and the Galactic War, it is 2246 almost three hundred years later.
It is easy to see how one side or another would come to look upon the Conventions as being antiquated, or relating only to wartime relations between primitive (and by 2246, probably non-existant) nation-states, or plain old humanistic nonsense. Whatever spin you want to put on Rebel reasoning, the fact remains that the Rebellion targets civilian and merchant ships.
It frankly makes things more interesting. Confederation crimes against liberty (blah, blah, blah) are all well documented. But the Rebellion proves not to be the snow-white defenders of freedom that they'd have you believe.
------------------ PlanetPhil not drowning, waving