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I don't expect this is a new idea, but I'm organising a vote on Rebels or Confeds. I'll collect information if this goes on for longer than 2 pages.
Well, to put it simply, this is a discussion into whether the Confederation or the Rebellion are the best. I don't just mean shipwise - although that will no doubt come into it - but also how cool they are, the missions etc.
I vote Rebellion - fast, powerful ships, generally cool missions and they are the good guys, after all.
PS: If you want to, you can vote someone else - I'll accept the Alliance from the Alliance plug-in. If there are 2 votes for one thing I'll count it.
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Hey, someone looked but they didn't message.
Whoever that is - please tell me if you don't like the idea, okay?
Quote
Originally posted by Esponer: I vote Rebellion - fast, powerful ships, generally cool missions and they are the good guys, after all.
The Rebel destroyer is nice, but my vote still goes to the Confederation. They have more interesting missions, they don't go around destroying defenceless shuttlecraft and freighters without provocation, and they are the good guys, after all.
------------------ David Arthur Talon Plugin for Classic EV: (url="http://"http://members.aol.com/darthur1/talon-ev/")http://members.aol.c...thur1/talon-ev/(/url) Now updated!
(This message has been edited by David Arthur (edited 03-15-2001).)
sigh
NOTE: The following topic has been known to cause Confed supporters to melt after reading. Use at your own risk!
What about the Confeds are better? The intro is just Rebel propoganda? Let's see...
It is better to die for your cause, then to live under the hand of opression." - Admiral Martin Davies - At the beginning of the Rebellion, responding to an accusation that the Rebels should surrender before the war truely began to escilate and more lives were lost.
We will fight and die for our cause." Unknwon Rebel mercenary at the beginning of the Rebellion.
"Tyranny is the thing that has eventually brought an end to every government in this galaxy." - Vance Robins - Rebel President
"We are not here to fight just to shed blood, but we are here to fight for what we think is right." - Rebel insurrectionist during the beginning of the Galactic Civil War
First of all, the intro isn't Rebel propoganda, it's the truth. The Confeds bullied around the outer colonists, denied them representation in the senate, forced them into hard labor, and so colonists rebelled. What would You do in a situation like that? And don't tell me you would just sit around an accept it. Come on! It's right there, plain and simple; the Confeds are a just a bunch of aristocrats who want to only furthur themselves, get rich, and have a nice life while people suffer and die under their tyranny.
And the Rebels aren't just a bunch of Zealots fighting for some radical cause. It's also plain and simple; to free themselves from tyranny and oppression. They have a Much better cause than the Confeds. What cause do the Confeds have? Well? Trying to promote slavery? If so, then every Confed who supports them should be tried for treason! How would You like it if You were a slave, forced to work for hours in oppressive conditions?
Because of what the Confeds did to the Rebels, how they enslaved them, tormented them, and denied them their rights, the Rebellion already has scored big points with independents, who fear that, if the Confeds win, they will once again begin their brutal practices, on former Rebels and Independents alike. The Rebels, however, can easily pursuade independent systems to join them against the Confeds, who are evil and corrupt.
The Confeds are also easy targets. Because they're so bunched up, the Rebels can easily make a slow and methodical offensive against them, slowly picking off their systems one by one. On the other hand, wherever the Confeds attack, they must move always move quickly and with massive forces in order to complete their goals, while the Rebels have no problem at all slowly capturing Confeds planets and Stations. And whatever planet the Confeds take, there is always one danger to them, and the Rebels will almost always certainly take the system or station back.
Also, the Patrol Ship usually beats the Manta? No way! In fact, the Manta usually wins! I've done a major survey, and the Manta and Patrol Ship are about even, but the Manta wins a bit more. In other wors, the Manta has a 55-45 chance against the Patrol Ship, with the odds favoring the Manta.
Here are some other reasons: 1-Rebel ships are cooler than Confed ships 2-The color Red is cooler, as is the way Rebel ships are colored 3-The Confeds ships have stupid blue dots on their ships. Come on, blue dots? Icky icky! 4-Palshife and Satori are cool names 5-Destroyer sounds better than Frigate 6-Manta sounds better than Gunboat and Patrol Ship 7-All Confed ships look EXTREMELY ugly and pathetic, especially the Confed Patrol Ship and Confed Cruiser
Another bad thing about the Confederation is that they seem very dicatorial in whatever they do. For instance, they used their military to force the outer colonists into forced labor, and when you hail their ships you'll sometimes get a message saying something about "Naval codes, blah blah blah". The way I see it, the Confeds are full of just a bunch of greedy, squabbily, ruthless, deligates (sp?) who have no interest in the common good (Hey! That sounds like Emporer Palpatine in Episode 1!). Thus, they have a very unstable government, unlike the Rebels, who are much more democratic and have a much more stable government. In the end, power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, so the Confeds will loose, and the Rebels will be victorious once again.
Fights between the Manta and Patrol Ship is just about even. Both ships are relatively evenly matched, but the Manta is much more maneuverable. However...
Which one is better? The Rebel Destroyer? Or the Confed Frigate? I think the Rebel destroyer is not only better, but easier to build, and thus, the Rebels would have the advantage in numbers.
The Kestrel is nice, but way overpriced. The Confed Frigate is too slow for its class. Although the frigate has 50 more shields, all of its other stats are inferior to the Destroyer.
The frigate's three jump range is rediculous. The Destroyer can mount 4 turrets vs 3 for the frigate. The frigate can mount 6 forward guns vs 5 for the destroyer, but the frigate's poor turning reduces their effectiveness. If you strip all of the weapons off of both ships, and apply as many mass expansions as possible, the Destroyer has more space.
The computer destroyer loses to the computer frigate because the computer fights stupidly. The destroyer pilot should use his speed and turning advantage to circle around behind the frigate, not fly down its throat... repeatedly.
Another reason the Rebel Destroyer wins against the Confed Frigate is that it always unloads all of its torpedoes really fast, while the Confed frigate doesn't.
Even with the speed upgrades the Rebel destroyer is still faster than the Confed frigate. Actually, with speed upgrades, IMHO the Rebel destroyer can fly circles around a lightning. Rebel Destroyers are FAST!
Now we get down to the Rebels dirty work....
As you may note, the Confed Cruiser is four times the size, needed maintenance, and cost as the Rebel destroyer. That means that the Rebels can mass produce their destroyers, while the Confederation struggles to just build one or two of their Cruisers, which are slow and can easily be picked off by an experienced Rebel pilot. The one heavy ship that the Confeds can produce is the Confed Frigate, vastly inferior to the Rebel Destroyer, and thus no threat to the Rebel Alliance.
Another thing to note is that the Rebel Destroyer carries twice the Missiles and Torpedoes than that of the Confed Frigate. Because of this, in swarms, Destroyers can take down just about anything and everything, while Confed Frigates are slow, clumsey, and no threat in numbers. Rebel Destroyers carry twice the firepower, and thus they can pummel and blast away their targets with torpedoes while the Confed Frigates attempt to bring down the mighty Rebel capital ships with their puny, short range, and low damage missiles.
While in AI vs. AI combat the Rebel Cruiser usually cannot beat the Confed cruiser, everything in EV states that the Rebels have many more Rebel Cruisers than Confed Cruisers. First, look at the "Confed Warships" and "Rebels" dudes. While the Confed Cruiser only appears 10% of the time, the Rebel Cruiser appears 15% of the time. So, although this margine of advantage is slim, it still says that there are a lot of Rebel Cruisers.
Also, all Confed ships, especially the Confed Cruiser and Confederate Frigate, are all heavily overpriced. So, the Confeds cannot mass produce their ships, as I have said earlier, while the Rebels can easily build dozens of their cheap but highly effective vessels.
In the Galactic Civil War, the Law of Attrition will be the key factor in the success of the Rebellion. The Confeds simply cannot build enough ships to keep up with the Rebels. In the end, the enevitable (sp?) will happen; the Rebels will win, the Confeds will loose.
And here are a few reasons why the Rebel Cruiser is better than the Confed Cruiser:
Reasons why the Confed Cruiser is Worse: 1-It looks ugly 2-It has icky blue dots 3-It is slower than most frieghters 4-A Rebel Cruiser can fly circles around it 5-It is a sitting duck to all types of weapons 6-It carries Patrol Ships, which are the worst fighting in the game (besides the Defender) 7-It's neutron blasters just take up space
Reasons why the Rebel Cruiser is Better: 1-It looks soooo cool 2-It's colored VERY nicely (Red is very cool) 3-It is just about as fast as the Confed frigate, a ship half its size, so it should be faster, right? Wrong. 4-It can fly circles around the Confed Cruiser 5-It can evade some types of weapons 6-It carries Mantas, which are awesome in swarms
And here are a few problems with the Confed Cruiser:
Problem 1-You can only get 1 RCS upgrade and the Rebel Cruiser still outmaneuvers the Confed cruiser.
Problem 2-Blue dots are horribly ugly and tacky.
Problem 3-Shielding means nadda when it's AI vs. Human. I've heard of people taking out Confed Cruisers in Rebel Destroyers and Kestrels before, as well as hearing about people taking out Rebel Cruisers in Corvettes before. Shields mean nothing if the Human pilot is experienced and is in a good ship, like the Rebel Cruiser.
Here's a joke:
Q: When is a Confed Cruiser a great ship?
A: When it ain't working for the Confeds.
Here's another one:
The only good Fed is a Dead Fed.
Now, have I not proven my point?
-Captain Carnotaur
------------------ To Escape Velocity: Nova and Beyond! -------------- Millennium. Its coming, prepare for it. Coming to the (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiaSW.com/games/ev/chronicles.html")EV Chronicles(/url).
Well, I see you feel strongly about that....
I vote for Rebellion, b/c no matter how hard I try, I just can't be pro-Confed, I just end up killing them. Although i have just started playing EV again, so i'll give it a try. Perhaps it reminds me of the Rebel Alliance and the Empire in Star Wars
------------------ OOh, arrr! It's Ambrosia(aar)!!! Interested in EV? Interested in an RPG on it? Play an online RPG based on it at (url="http://"http://www.oxy-web.com/uev")www.oxy-web.com/uev(/url) PS, Confed players welcome
Hmmmmm......REBELS KICK SOME SERIOUS ARSE.. 1)there fighting for a cause 2)there ships are powerful and more manuevrable(they losose to bad AI) 3)they completly encircle the confeds(except the POS world) 4)cheaper ships 5)although they have longer supply lines, they can also expand outworad, the confeds cant 6)the could possibly win the support of of a few inndy worlds by creating a decent strike fleet and taking out the gades 7)the have more resources, and are not fighting a gentlemans war. 8)if they take out the 3 pirate systems and the confed system they completly encircle the indys and confeds. as a note. that could cause indy worlds to jois as they dont wanna be in the middle of a war zone 9)the more the confeds tighten their grip, the more planets will join the rebels. 10)the confed beam weapon is uterly useless 11)the rebel weapon is useful. 12)the rebels are more willing to use new techs, the confeds are not. 13)eventually the rebels will gain the upperhand and push forward.
as a note. i have played for both. i like the rebels the best. and i sincerly believe if it ever gets the AI that nova will have the rebels will win, and EXTREMPL(and i emphasize)EXTREMLY easy.
------------------ Hmm, if your reading this, go play EVO RPG found at (url="http://"http://www.uevorpg.f2s.com")www.uevorpg.f2s.com(/url) have fun. i am yoda. any questions and comments may be directed towards me if you wish. A JEDIS STRENGH FLOWS THROUGH THE FORCE
Well,after reading Captain Carnotaur's reply, I must vote Rebels.I will not bore you for my reasons for my pick.
But if there are any Confed supporters out there please do the following 1)Read Captain Carnotaur reply 2)join the good Rebels 3)Reread Captain Carnotaur reply 4)Thank Captain Carnotaur for his great and witty reply,like this: Thank you Captain Carnotaur, for your great and witty reply.
idiotSavant
------------------ In three words I can sum up all I've learned about life;it goes on -Robert Frost
Originally posted by idiotSavant: **Well,after reading Captain Carnotaur's reply, I must vote Rebels.I will not bore you for my reasons for my pick.
idiotSavant **
Hehe, thanks idiotSavant.
And here comes the best part:
**I ain't finished yet!
Just wait till you read my memo on how the Rebels are better!**
I vote for the Gavonian Union of Independent Worlds.
------------------ -Gavin (url="http://"http://dhm.smoovenet.com")Don't Hate Me(/url)
I'm a little confused on the pro-Rebel stance. Nowhere in the game does it say that the Confederation was enslaving people, in fact, the Confederation is just a strong government. If you think everybody who rebels against a nation does so for pure and noble reasons, try reading the Declarations of Cause which all the southern states sent to the Union before seceding. In that Civil War, the pure and noble cause was slavery, and the rebelling side was not the side fighting for right. They wanted to opress an entire people due to the color of their skin.
Now, onto the EV Civil War. If you look at the missions, I mean really look at them, the Confederation never once does things that would be considered evil. Killing defecting frigates, stopping Rebel arms shipments, recovering top-secret weapon prototypes from thieving Rebels, and of course, rescuing disabled passenger liners. Whereas the Rebels assassinate Confed officials in neutral territory, steal classified information, and in reality border on mere piracy. The Confeds only have one mission involving destroying freighters, whereas the Rebels have missions involving the destruction of Executive Transports, Light Freighters, and all this in neutral territory! A clear infringement of the sovereignty of those systems!
Face it, the Rebels are the evil ones, they kill civillians, something which was outlawed during the Geneva Conventions, so that's some pretty old law EV-wise. Nothing noble about the Rebels at all.
And as far as their ships go, personally I think the stats were input wrong by an obviously biased Rebel sympathizer. A purpose-built warship (Frigate) would not carry less firepower than a converted freighter (Destroyer), that's just not plausible, and has been a major gripe of mine for some time.
More evidence that the Rebels are evil: They use the color red, which in Western civilization is the color for the bad guys, particularly in the U.S. where we had to fight for our freedom from people wearing red coats. The Rebels in reality are anti-American, and likely communists, who historically have commited more atrocities than even NAZI Germany.
No doubt there are noble, well intentioned people within the Rebellion, but those who are in charge are evil to the core.
Captain Carnotaur, it's inevitably, not enevitably. I'm a rebel myself, because I'm fighting for a cause, not just for power. If you want to know my views on the rebels, their ships and tactics, then look at the REBEL MEMO topic on the webboard. Also, I think the rebel cruiser wouldn't just win Human vs AI, but Human vs. Human aswell. The problem with the AI's tactics is that they insist on just running straight at each other, whereas a rebel pilot would want to circle the target, missing torpedoes and missiles, whereas fed ships aren't fast enough to do this. Thus they rely on stronger shields, which won't win a battle if you're a good pilot. And the only reason that the destroyers and cruisers go after shuttlecrafts and light freighters is that they are identified as confeds. And as the captain said, "The only good Fed is a Dead Fed." They're programmed to kill anything ID'd as feds, so that's why they kill little shuttlecrafts. Besides, it's one less pilot that could fight the fed's cause.
6 Rebel 2 Confed
Then again, someone "seemed" to side with Rebel but didn't actually vote, and the same for Confed. I counted them.
Also, Carno, you're a really great guy and all - I'm really starting to like you, but you might as well have said "it's raining" while standing in the pouring rain. Plus, messages that long just get me confused - you voted, didn't you?
I don't think the Confeds will win.
And about the one who voted for a plug-in government - never played it, myself. Please don't make this voting too hard on me.
PS: At 10 for one side, or my next check, I'm closing this vote. The result is inevitable, after all.
Yeah, sorry for not actually voting, I'd forget my head if it wasn't screwed on correctly.
My vote goes for the Rebellion...
Long live the Rebellion!
Visit my EVO website! (url="http://"http://artworks.tmgmedia.net")http://artworks.tmgmedia.net(/url)
Originally posted by Loki: I'm a little confused on the pro-Rebel stance. Nowhere in the game does it say that the Confederation was enslaving people...
Read the intro text from the original EV:
"But the elite and powerful members of the Confederation were reluctant to give up their power after the end of the War, and began a rule of oppression and tyranny, aided by the powerful Confederation Navy.
They exploited the outer colony planets for the benefit of the wealthy Core Worlds, stripping them of their resources and coercing the colonists into forced labor."
Originally posted by Loki:
<snip>
I'm sure the Rebels are much more American than you might think, they've got the spirit of '76. They fight for the noble ideals of freedom and democracy for the galaxy... and given the above text from EV, I'm sure that the 'feds have commited even more atrocities than NAZI Germany and all the totalitarian regimes together.
So, my vote goes for the just cause of liberty, Long live the Rebellion! Down with the tyrants!
Well if red is bad, then I guess the Rebels in Star Wars are bad, too. They use red, orange, and grey as their ship colors.
No, the text might not outright say that the Confederation enslaved members of the Rebellion, but it seems to me that everyone who has read it has gotten that impression, including me. The Confederation is a corrupt, power-hungry government that wants nothing more then to enforce its unfair laws on the entire galaxy. I'd estimate that there are atleast five to ten times more Rebel fans then there are Confederation...I'll bet that if you even asked people like Matt Burch, it was Ambrosia's intent to depict the Confederation as menace of the universe that nobody seems to like.
Put me down for the Rebel's. I can't think of a reason.
I'd have to say the rebels... mainly because it's much easier to side with them - you can kill confed shuttlecrafts or freighters very early on, and it's comparatively very hard to kill even the rebel mantas thanks to their speed and recharge.. and of course you have to wait a long time before being able to take on anything else they have.
Also, the confeds make it even harder to side with them by liking to shoot you even when you're trying to help them! The prospecting missions they give you are just a pain! And of course they are very quick to jump to conclusions when the rebels try to make you switch sides. It seems to me that the confeds don't really even want the help of the player - and although I do like the particle beam, it's not a good enough reason to put yourself through that more than once :).
Bravo Ursus!!
9 Rebel 2 Confed
Umm.......This is even more single sided than thought................
------------------ Draw the line with fire, Cross it with ice, Banish the fiery sun, And bring on the silent moon.