Avara 2

@yellowbkpk, on Nov 18 2008, 07:36 AM, said in Avara 2:

"...It takes time and commitment to finish a game."

Speaking of which, has there been any progress on this as of late?

I'm one of the Ooooold hands. I was in the GZR Clan back when there were clans and I still have fond memories of playing Avara.

The thing about this game is that it was never the same game twice, no matter how many times you played a level or against the same opponent, nothing was entirely predictable. Avara held it own against more sophisticated games with better graphics because the gameplay was first rate.

I think few people really understood the complexity behind Avara. It was that hidden complexity that made the game a winner.

I had thought about trying my hand at programming an Avara clone using one of the game engines. Then I thought better of it. Creating something that even remote resembles Avara would take a large investment in time, which I don't have a lot of.

I really do hope you can pull it off. I know many have tried and no one has succeeded yet.

I have a few suggestions.

I know you have a plan of attack, but have you thought about trying to compile the old code in OS X? I know it would take some work, but doing so would familiarize you with the inner workings of Avara and the end result would be a playable, OS X native version. From there, armed with the knowledge all Avara's subtleties, you could them create your own updated version.

Just a thought.

Worfgzr

@worfgzr, on Dec 3 2008, 10:14 PM, said in Avara 2:

have you thought about trying to compile the old code in OS X?

No one has been able to get Ambrosia or Juri to release the source code to Avara. I know I've tried contacting both Juri and Ambrosia at least once each and each time they have said no.

@yellowbkpk, on Dec 7 2008, 12:46 PM, said in Avara 2:

No one has been able to get Ambrosia or Juri to release the source code to Avara.

Which seems stranger and stranger as time goes by. I mean, you can't even play the game on modern machines (well, okay, sheepshaver runs the program, but I wouldn't call it playable), so there's no way they're selling more than a license or two a year, if that. It probably costs them more in bandwidth to keep the description page up.
Are they afraid of something, or are they just naming unreasonable terms for use of the code? It seems like releasing the code for general public, non-commercial use (with attribution) could only be beneficial to Ambrosia. If someone puts time into making an OS X compatible build, Ambrosia could market it and potentially make money off what presently amounts to financially worthless code. Hell, they could make people buy a $20 license for the game to get a copy of the code and make some money in the short term.

I really liked the game, and I have two computers that can actually run the game, however neither of them are on the internet, so I haven't ever played online. I did get pretty far in, but I eventually got bored of it, but I still like the game. In my opinion, nothing I have ever played could compete with avara in terms of gameplay. I really hope to see this come through. Good luck!

-K

I only read about half this thread, and I'd like to offer one perspective on the approach of doing an Avara 2:

I would strongly advise whoever is attempting to design a new Avara to stick with gameplay and physics first. Avara itself was not a technical marvel, the beauty of the game was found in stark simplicity. It gained a cult following despite simple low-poly models because the gameplay was extraordinary.

The original models give you a clear framework for building a basic 3d model, and you can easily study the way HECTORs move in order to animate for walking, jumping, crouching, etc. Missle flight pathing, lock-on mechanics, variable plasma damage...these are a bit more difficult.

Let's say you make a map using the same sort of basic low-poly graphics that Avara had. Let's say you have 6 player support for network games, and can reasonably import most classic maps. Let's even say you get the physics and the basic gameplay mechanics working as well as the original.

Guess what? By that point you've given the Avara fanbase, past and present, what it has wanted for over a decade...an Avara project that will run on modern systems and has potential for future development. Hell, you could probably get an active community of testers just from the old veterans that still check this forum....and they would ADORE it, even if it were exactly like the old game.

At that stage, call it an alpha. That is when you go back and update graphics, add in new features, tweak it to support more players, and add all the bells & whistles (including the bulk of items found only in single player, like UFOs). That's when you can focus on trying to capture a new audience with more polys, textures, new hulls or weapons, and 128 player support (but please, retain options to keep the classic stripped down simplified version). Especially on the eye candy, making it look better is easy. I mean just look at the original and imagine how much better you could make it look just by adding textures.

And if it has legs to become viable as a release to a wider market? Great, you'll have nobody who will give it a more ringing endorsement than I would....but you start with baby steps. Recreate the simple genius of the original, and then expand upon it. Too many of these projects have languished and died because the creators tried to do too much.

Good luck, and I will keep checking back to look for progress.

Bring the noise.
Cheers............

This post has been edited by Dark Vengeance : 22 January 2009 - 07:54 PM