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ok so what are the new members's opinions on Spell points vs memorization?
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Hmm, here's an idea, use the spell, and the more you use it, the fewer mp it takes, until it takes none at all.
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Spell points, definitely. But, the ability to have lots of different types of spell points. Or make spells that drain hit points. Etc. Why? This way you can do a sort of a memorization system: you have some number of lvl1 spell points, and every level one spell costs one lvl1 spell point. If you want to really get fancy, every level one spell creates an item (or something) that can only be used by the caster, to actually cast the spell effect, or to regain a spell point. Then make all spell points regenerate (and every 'spell item' vanish) upon a new day. Or some variation thereof. See? It all works out nicely!
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Here's a (I(great(/I) idea.
Spells, like charicters, gain experience as you use them. The more experience a spell gains, the less magic it costs to cast it, but at certain points, the spell gains a level and becomes stronger.
However, if the player chooses, the spell's improvment can be delayed just to keep a few easy to cast spells
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Originally posted by Madman: **Here's a (I(great(/I) idea.
However, if the player chooses, the spell's improvment can be delayed just to keep a few easy to cast spells **
Hmm, reminds me of an idea I had a while ago. In my idea, spells would have an 'efficency' meter by their name in the menu. This would start at zero, but as you use the spell, the efficency would go up, and not casting the spell for a while would make the efficency go down. A higher efficency would make the spell cast faster, and it take up less MP as well as do more damage.
A bit more realistic, in my opinion.
-Andrew out.
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Hmm. But when I think about it, that would get boring, as the later you are in the game, the easier it is to cast spells, and the stronger it is.
Maybe, for every level a spell gains, it takes more mp as well as becoming stronger, but you can delay the spell improvment so you can keep a few easy-to cast spells up your sleave for when you're drained of mp...
good idea
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Originally posted by Madman: **Hmm. But when I think about it, that would get boring, as the later you are in the game, the easier it is to cast spells, and the stronger it is.
**
It is only logical to have a spell get stronger as it progresses. It is important though, to keep a solid ratio, i.e. level 1 costs 10 mana, level 2 costs 20 mana etc etc, not like level 1:10 then level 2:58. Having costs skyrocket like that make the game confusing and unbalanced. But then in Earthbound, for example, sometimes on a level up you gain 1 mp, and sometimes you gain 60, so costs are on a sliding scale. Anyways, to paraphrase what I am trying to say, keep your spell cost: effectiveness ratio the same pretty much throughout the game.
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traditionally the "mage" character has always been considerably difficult to play as in the beginning of any game, compared to the "fighter". I suggest something new, like making it equal, as you suggested. Balance is a good thing(I believe I started a thread on it) but sometimes a little "spice" makes the game more interesting. Alrighty, I'm done throwing around quotation marks.
Originally posted by Lorenoth: **traditionally the "mage" character has always been considerably difficult to play as in the beginning of any game, compared to the "fighter". I suggest something new, like making it equal, as you suggested. Balance is a good thing(I believe I started a thread on it) but sometimes a little "spice" makes the game more interesting. Alrighty, I'm done throwing around quotation marks.
No! No eaqual! The point of diffrent charicter classes, is to make it easier in the start, but harder in the end, or the other way arround, or medium through the whole game!
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Originally posted by Madman: **Maybe, for every level a spell gains, it takes more mp as well as becoming stronger, but you can delay the spell improvment so you can keep a few easy-to cast spells up your sleave for when you're drained of mp... **
I plan on doing it the other way around: for every level you gain, all your spells become a bit cheaper to cast, but no more powerful. For more powerful stuff, you have to learn new (and much more expensive) spells.
Originally posted by Wyvern: Right, but that's kinda the same thing only it uses more clutter in spell lists, then, how about requiring an item to be equiped to use the spell, but then it can be taken off without losing the spell, like in FF9
Of course, having a number of spells stored like items (like in FF8 or kingdom) isn't so bad, maybe spells can have a physical presence like scrolls or gems, and can be bought...
With the number of options and interfaces we've discussed, there should be a good many diverse games with many nice features, I'm planning to use simple 2D tile-based graphics like nearly all old console RPGs.
(/B)
Originally posted by Madman: **
Maybe socketed weapons like D2. You'd have crystals or something that would give a weapon the power to cast a spell.
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Hmm... I think that may have been an error in my message for some reason, if you'll look at my message
Maybe if I put {/Quote} at the begining of every message, with () instead of {}, maybe no one will be able to quote me...
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(This message has been edited by Madman (edited 01-13-2001).)
Originally posted by Lorenoth: **well it is true to old D &D;(I'm guessing). **
It is. I'm a fan of D&D;, but, in my game, I plan on using mana. The gods grant mana to the magi (they're either a wizard or a warlock; wizards use the mana to channel a specific element of nature, and warlocks use the mana to manipulate something (i.e. freezing time, walking through walls, etc.)).
(quote)Originally posted by Madman: **Maybe if I put {/Quote} at the begining of every message, with () instead of {}, maybe no one will be able to quote me...:p
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Yeah mana seems to be the most popular way to go...
Originally posted by Lorenoth: Yeah mana seems to be the most popular way to go...
I don't think anyone should pick mana just because it's popular. Coldstone is supposed to make stand-alone RPG's, not dozens of clones. One should try to make their RPG the way they want to.
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and that's what I intend to do! by combining mana and memorization of course!
I think different systems work better for different ideas. Let's take the example of some kind of mystical mage, who draws on an internal supply of willpower, or magical energy to call forth magical effects. Obviously, a MP system works best here.
But then say we have a book mage, who studies speels from a tome, and commits them to memory. After he recites/enacts the spell, the efoort could cause him to forget how to cast the spell, unless he took a considerable amount of extra time to memorize it (learning it in two 'slots' or whatever) obviously a memorization system works best here.
But then we might have a cleric or priest, who receives his powers froma divine patron. This patron may grant him a certain amount of spells a day, possibly letting the priest choose them, possibly deciding for him. Once he has cast all the spells that his diety has given him, he wouldn't have 'fergotten' how to cast the spells, but would jsut not be able to, a memorization system works best here as well.
You could then do neat things like the wonderful idea of blood magic, and make an action (sacrifice) give the player MP points when it is completed, and this would allow him to have the MP to spend on various spells.
I don't think any system is better then any other, or more realistic, it just depends on how you want the mechanics of spell casting to work, and how easy you want to make it for the player. MP doesn't always make it easier for the player, you could have an MP system that worked very slowly, and a Memorization system that gave you plently of spells per day.
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Originally posted by Mashish: ** But then say we have a book mage, who studies speels from a tome, and commits them to memory. After he recites/enacts the spell, the efoort could cause him to forget how to cast the spell, unless he took a considerable amount of extra time to memorize it (learning it in two 'slots' or whatever) obviously a memorization system works best here. **
As a longtime D&D; player, I should clarify something here: In D&D;, once you learn how to cast a spell you do not forget how to cast it unless you're hit by a level drain or something else that causes you to learn experience.
The model in D&D; (and those games that use its model - taken, incidentally, from Jack Vance's Dying Earth series) has the wizard prepare the spells in the morning, gathering up all the energy and so forth, so that he can release them with a gesture or a word later on. Once a spell is cast, the energy is loosed, and the caster has to go back and prepare the spell again if he wants to cast it. The "memorize" terminology is an unfortunate one, because it doesn't really describe the way things work.
It's a good model to use when the magic involved is especially complex or arcane (as all mortal magic is in D&D;). I think D&D; implements it a bit too rigidly (it's loosened up some in the latest versions, though), but that's a separate issue.