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The Kestrel you get in the Deliver Kestrel Parts mission is weaker than the Kestrel. I want to make it stronger than the Kestrel. So I am making a new ship. I want the new ship to be avaible from the same mission. *
I suppose I need to make it avaible at the same time as the original Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel. Because my Blackthorne Kestrel plug-in makes the description of that Kestrel truthful how much weaker it is than the Atinoda Kestrel. Truthful, because the ship has just 25 less shields, four less Missiles, and no Lightnings. And it is not "not quite up to the Atinoda specs" (I made my plug-in because that was in the original description). I guess I want people to be able to see the description I made in the plug-in I mentioned. In case they download it. I said I guess because I thought that's what people want.
So I suppose I need to set a new mission bit to make this ship avaible. And so that they can keep using my previous plug-in / or the ship without my plug-in.
But I have no idea of how mission bits actually work. I have read the EVO Bible, but I never understood them. And I never needed them.
Unless people think it's OK I just replace the original Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel in my new plug-in. I think that is done by um... I don't actually know, so you have to tell me. By having the ship have the same mission bit as the one you get in Blackthorne?
Can people give me a hand in how I make the new ship avaible at the same time as the Kestrel you get in the Deliver Kestrel Parts mission?
I make a new ship and then make it have a different mission bit? I guess I need to make a different mission too then, right? For the new ship to have a new mission bit that makes the ship avaible.
I need to have someone tell me mission bits in as simple language as you can.
I want to make my plug-in work, no matter what it takes. Even if I need to make a new mission.
Let me make sure I understand you. You want to change the old Blackthorne Kestrel to be better than the standard (since it's built by pirates) instead of weaker. Right?
Well, why not just change the specs of the weaker Kestrel to make it stronger? You don't need mission bits. All you need is the dësc from the Blackthorne Kestrel and the shïp from the same Kestrel. Just change how you see fit and you're done.
@darthkev, on 27 September 2012 - 11:45 PM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
That would be it. I want the ship to be better than something that has 105 shields, four less Missiles, and no Lightnings. I want the ship to be better than the normal Kestrel, so I have some reason to fly "the old Blackthorne Kestrel". As for being stronger because it's built by Pirates? Funny, at the same time I feel it is and isn't the reason I want it to make it stronger. The reason wasn't for me that it's stronger because it's built by Pirates. I wanted to make it stronger because it was weaker. And because I wanted to make it something I could want to fly myself. In fact, I am going to make it something I would like to fly myself! And at the same time, the reason it is stronger is because of Pirates. I am going to make a desc where Atinoda makes a new Kestrel and then ferries over the plans/ whatever could be said that the thing is via a ship. Meaning, whatever you call that which makes constructing a ship possible. The Pirates take the plans from the ship and construct that ship in Blackthorne.
I'll try what you say. It's going to mean I need to copy the desc from the Blackthorne Kestrel and change it. I already have the ship copied & changed.
I guess um... I need to have some kind of mention in the mission Deliver Kestrel Parts though that what they are going to get is far stronger than you otherwise get in that mission.
Two more questions:
1. Is EV-Edit as bad as it's reputation is in very old (from the 2000s) posts? I use ResEdit because it works. It's hard to use, but at least it's guaranteered to work. I downloaded EV-Edit, the newest version, to Basilisk II and would like the know if its's usable. EV-Edit is a editor for plug-ins, in case someone didn't know. I would like someone that has used EV-Edit to tell me.
2. Where could I find a Pirate Kestrel to fight? I need to know if 4 Lightnings can destroy a Kestrel by themselves so I can write a description. As far as I remember, they are so rare they almost never appear. It's a surprise every time.
Edit: Found a Corvette in the system that contains Privateers Cove. The Lightnings got it to 19% shields immediately. Then they attacked it with their Laser Cannons and destroyed it. Now if I just could find a Kestrel... Perhaps I need to make a plug-in which makes a Pirate Kestrel appear.
This post has been edited by General Cade Smart : 28 September 2012 - 02:23 PM
@general-cade-smart, on 28 September 2012 - 12:31 PM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
Is EV-Edit as bad as it's reputation is in very old (from the 2000s) posts? I use ResEdit because it works.
I certainly never accomplished anything with it. Many design decisions in MissionComputer were motivated by the principle of doing things a different way from how EV-Edit had done them.
1. I never used it, either. I was fortunate enough to stumble across EVN after Mission Computer was already released.
2. I'm pretty sure 4 Lightnings can kill even a Rebel Cruiser on their own. Not right away, of course, but those missiles and heavy rockets pack a serious punch, not the mention the Javelins. As for where to find a Kestrel, you could also just wander around till you find a Bounty Hunter and attack them. Their Kestrels have the same stats as any other Kestrel.
Man, EV-Edit. I used that back in the day, and don't remember any problems with it other than the occasional corruption of your plug/data file, but that was usually because of something stupid I was trying to do, if I'm remembering right.
I also seem to remember a couple different versions of the program, and one was better than the other. Of course, I used Res-edit almost exclusively since I figured it out, and since my machine that runs EVN is a classic imac, it still has res-edit. I also use whatever has a graphic interface for placing systems when I do that.
The problem with EV-Edit anymore would be knowing if it actually runs as intended on anything; it was made for Apple Power PC's back in the 90's. Mission Computer and/or res-edit with the appropriate templates will likely be better at this point, since MC is updated with very reasonable frequency (considering it's also at least, what, a decade old?) and anything that runs Res-edit should continue to do so without trouble.
It is my understanding that he wishes both to be available at the same time, as a result of the mission, ergo, someone with understanding of mission bits, to allow the ship to be available at the proper time, is needed. Is this correct?
As a start, I'd like to note that this experience comes from Guy's port, and the Magma graphical Overhaul. I don't know if this issue is caused by either of the two.
For some reason, whenever I engage a capital ship with fighters, it refuses to fire on them with its turrets. Why? I don't know. What this means is that I wreck entire fleets with two lightnings and Hawks.
Considering how much more armed the lightnings are, they'd decimate even Confederate Cruisers very quickly. However, when I personally engage/disengage the ship, it will fire on the fighters, and destroy them pretty quickly.
Essentially, if you frequently recall your fighters to prevent destruction, even two fighters will cause a lot of damage to anything very, very, very quickly.
@terr-vel, on 01 October 2012 - 05:06 PM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
I wanted to do this: both Kestrels avaible at the same time. The Kestrel you get in Deliver Kestrel Parts, and the new ship I made. That way, you could use the Blackthorne Kestrel plug-in at the same time as the plug-in with the new ship. I couldn't think of any way to do this besides creating a new mission to make the new ship avaible. By doing both missions, at least, you can have both of the ships. Since the new ship would have a different mission bit that would make the ship avaible.
Is this clear enough? The way I feel now, I couldn't have made that clearer.
But I have given up that plan since DarthKev said you don't need mission bits. The new ship now replaces the old one. That means I'll just have to say not to use Blackthorne Kestrel at the same time.
Can Confederate Cruisers be won by Lightnings very quickly? I don't know if that is possible, since in my eyes Confederate Cruisers are essentially invicibile ships. At least compared to others- how tough they are to beat. I have never fought them much though- maybe it's that.
When you stop engaging a ship, it starts to fire? Hmm.
Having to recall fighters sounds tedious, and you didn't say how often I would have to recall them.
I have a hard time believing you can destroy fleets with two Lightnings and Hawks. But maybe it's because I haven't tried. Or maybe it's because I haven't used Guys port.
Do you know if this would apply to the Alien Cruiser?This: (..)even two fighters will cause a lot of damage to anything very, very, very quickly.
Anyway, my plug-in is almost finished!
Here is a picture of the ships description:
https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!274
And here is a picture of the ships features:
https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!275
I left fuel amount and speed (including acceleration and turning) unchanged because I didn't care so much about them.
https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!277
The text is partly cut off but still readable on the last line of the two lines I added at the end. I can't really cut anything of the story itself, as I see that all of it is equally important. I can remove the empty line I added to the text, but it would look less good . Or I can change my lines to appear when the mission is accepted. Do people even care about the last line being partly cut off? Tell me!
I made a note when you complete this mission that when you have the Kestrel Plus plug-in, you get a far more powerful ship than you otherwise would get from this mission. And that it is more than times more expensive.
https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!276
Anyway, editing the text that you get when you are offered a mission is... I don't know... too bad to describe?
ResEdit does not let you edit the text you get when you are offered a mission. That is, it's resource ID. Instead, you can only edit the BriefText field, which is the text for when you accept a mission. Which is useless if you are trying to make a text in the beginning of the mission... and would make creating new missions generally impossible.
That means you have to find the ID for the text for when you are offered a mission elsewhere. I used EV-Edit. It shows you the ID when you click Mission intro in the mission editor.
I tried Mission Computer 3.33 in Basilisk II with Mac OS 8.0. I have only 14 a MB HFV of Mac OS 8, not a full install. A HFV is a hard disk in Basilisk as a file. When I clicked edit in the field that contains the text when the mission is offered, Mission Computer froze. I didn't get the box with the text, I couldn't use the menus, and the dialog box changed color to... I don't remember, but I think it was white.
Then I had to Force Quit. After that I tried to open EV Data again, and got the following error message: https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!279
Click the zoom cursor to read.
I got a error message of being unable to convert the file into a intermediary format too.
I tried it one more time and got the same error.
After that, Mission Computer did not even start up. I saw a wristwatch cursor that never left. And a box that was blank.
This is odd, considering David Arthurs site says versions with the 9 symbol support Mac OS 8.x. And 68k, too, which Basilisk II uses because you can have a 68040 processor at most.
The only way to fix the startup crash is probably completely reinstall Mission Computer.
Can David Arthur comment on the freezing that happened when I tried edit the text that comes when you are offered a mission?
One more thing: what is the resource ID that contains the description for the Lightning outfit for the Lightning bay? I looked, and it seems the IDs for outfit descriptions start at 3000. But I didn't want to click on all of the outfit descriptions to find the right one. I need that one because I decided to make you able to buy 4 Lightnings, because the ship comes with 4. If you ever lose one or two Lightnings, you can't get them back without my modification. And I wanted to tell in the description that you can buy four Lightnings with my plug-in.
Where can I find a place that sells the Lightning outfit? Would it be Earth? Just to see that the description works (is not cut off or anything) when I have made it. I want the planet and the system.
@general-cade-smart, on 04 October 2012 - 01:00 PM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
ResEdit does not let you edit the text you get when you are offered a mission. That is, it's resource ID.
That’s a restriction of the file format itself, not ResEdit. The offering description is always the dësc resource whose ID is 4000 + mïsn ID - 128. I don’t know why Matt did that description differently from all the others, but it probably made sense at some stage in the early 1990s.
I’ve never used Basilisk, so I can’t comment on MissionComputer’s behaviour in it.
One more thing: what is the resource ID that contains the description for the Lightning outfit for the Lightning bay? I looked, and it seems the IDs for outfit descriptions start at 3000. But I didn't want to click on all of the outfit descriptions to find the right one.
Again, add the oütf resource ID minus 128. Almost all resource connections are handled this way.
Can't you just copy the fake Kestrel resource, modify everything to your spec, and have it show up when you do the mission? The avail bit should just be the same to make both show up, and you'll need to set the tech level to whatever you want to make it available at the planets of your choosing.
Lightnings are probably a tech level 5 item or special tech item, which are only available at a few planets. Make it a different number to get them to show up in more places.
@meaker-vi, on 05 October 2012 - 10:30 AM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
I don't understand. Is the fake Kestrel the one you get in the Deliver Kestrel Parts mission? I have already copied the Kestrel in Deliver Kestrel Parts to my plug-in and modified it. As for showing up, do you mean show up when the mission's done? In that case, the new ship I made already shows up.
When I tried to copy the original Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel from EV Data to my plug-in, the unmodified version, the results are... well, so bad I don't know what the right word is.
Here is a picture of that: https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!284
Background: My plug-ins new ship is ID 152, which happens to be same ID as the Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel in EV Data. I tried to use a ID that was not used in EV Data for ships, so I used ID 154.
Maybe it's because my ship uses the desc & ship resource ID of the original Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel? And because the resource IDs of the original are used by my ship, the original has no IDs of it's own? Maybe I should try changing the IDs of my new ship to something else, and make the original one use the original IDs?
I changed the Lightnings to be avaible everywhere- Techlevel 1. I couldn't think any other level that would be have been balanced and fair- for example, tech level 3. I also didn't want to test on which planets it's avaible at - that would perhaps mean I would have check the whole galaxy to see where it's for sale.
Here is a picture of that: https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!283
@general-cade-smart, on 06 October 2012 - 06:48 AM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
My plug-ins new ship is ID 152, which happens to be same ID as the Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel in EV Data.
Then it will replace the one in EV Data. If this isn't what you want, you'll need to give it a unique ID number, and adjust the IDs of the associated text and image resources to match.
Oh right, you'll need to copy the descriptions and images of the original-fake-kestrel too to get the visual stuff working. Or rather, duplicate them; your resource ID's need to be unique and match whatever the formula is for classic EV, an example would be ship 128 using desc 2128, though I don't remember the exact setup. Yes, the fake-kestrel is the one you get from the mission.
Everything really depends on the answer to your second question. I'm not sure why this happens to me; if it's a port thing, or a MAGMA thing, but it happens. If I engage a ship by sending fighters after it, it won't fight back unless I approach or attack it. It will engage me, not my fighters, until I back off, after which it will then start attacking my fighters. Once this happens, if they aren't managed properly, they will be destroyed.
However, managed properly, yes, fighters do have the potential to deal a lot of damage to anything.
@david-arthur, on 06 October 2012 - 07:03 AM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
At least replacing is... simpler.
I know how to give a unique ID number. Just copy the original ship from EV Data, and press Unique ID when ResEdit asks. Then change the ID to a another one that isn't in use. The rest? I am not sure about the text one, and I have no idea on the image one. Could you write in as simple terms as possible?
I know that I have change the ID number of the desc resource for my ship to some other ID number, if I want to use the Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel at the same time. But I don't know which I have to use. If it has to be a unused one, I don't know which are in use in EV Data... there's way too many! I think I have to, then create a entirely new (!) desc resource for the Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel and then copy the original desc from EV Data to my plug-in. Is this how it's done anyway, create a new desc for the Kestrel you get in Deliver Kestrel Parts, and make sure the ID number is unused? And you offered help for the offering description like this: dësc resource whose ID is 4000 + mïsn ID - 128. Could you do the same for the ship description, telling me which ID it is, and whatever else is needed? In case I want to create a new description for the Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel, so I can buy both at the Shipyard at the same time?
As for the image... you just have to help. I have no idea which resource the picture that you see above the name Kestrel in the Shipyard is. Which resource is it, and what ID is it? Then there is a another picture when you actually click on the ship in the Shipyard. Which resource is it, and which ID?
I wrote a long post because I have no idea on images, and don't know about the descs. I don't know the resource ID numbers I have to use.
Meaker VIs post is more helpful. Because it gives me more instructions. He tells me to duplicate, and that my resource IDs need to be unique and match a formula. He gave even what I needed, the resource IDs that I need to use. That ship 128 uses desc 2128. But I need something that tells me exactly what I need to use, not "I don't remember exactly". Like this: dësc resource whose ID is 4000 + mïsn ID - 128. Can David Arthur tell me what resource ID the ship description for the Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel is? When I don't use the original ID, which is 2024. And what resource and what ID the shipyard picture is? The one that shows above the word Kestrel. And the picture that shows when you click on a ship in the Shipyard. Next to the description.
@general-cade-smart, on 10 October 2012 - 12:26 PM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
The easiest way to do it is this:
Make a copy of EV Data so you don't mess anything up if you make a mistake. Open the copy in Res-Edit
Find the unmodified Fake-Kestrel Ship resource and duplicate it (command-K, IIRC). It will have a unique ID number. An ID number starts, for whatever reason, at 128 and goes up from there. 128 is the shuttle IIRC.
As an example, if you copied the shuttle resource to a new plug and duplicated it there, you'd have two shuttle resources numbered 128 and 129. You don't want to replace an existing resource, so you are duplicating in the actual data file where all the ship resources already are. It will duplicate it to the next unused number, should be 190 or 232 or something (I don't remember how high resource ID's go in EVC). You can copy that new Kestrel resource into a plug once it's made.
For example, the shuttle is ID 128. It's Pict/sprite is ID 128, but it's shipyard sprite is 1128, and it's desc is 2128. Again, you want to keep in the Data file to make sure you're not overwriting anything, but odds are here that if you've found the correct binding formula (Desk is ID+XXX, Sprite is ID+XXY, Shipyard is ID+XXZ...) you won't need to worry about it.
Check that the "available on" bit is set to the same as the original fake-kestrel. This bit is set by the "kestrel parts" mission series, and if it isn't on your kestrel won't show up.
Change the kestrel-parts mission desc that is appropriate. You'll actually want to overwrite the original one here.
Change any outfits you want to be the way you want them; i.e.: the lightnings' availability and number available.
Copy all of the resources you created or modified to a new plugin. Delete your copied data file.
In the original Escape Velocity , the ID numbers for a ship’s associated resources are as follows:
spïn ID = shïp ID
Shipyard dësc ID = 2000 + shïp ID - 128 Hire-escort dësc ID = 2100 + shïp ID - 128
Shipyard PICT (100x100) ID = 5000 + shïp ID - 128 Shipyard PICT icon (32x32 version of the same image) ID = 5101 + shïp ID - 128 Communications PICT (100x100) ID = 5300 + shïp ID - 128 Target PICT (128x64) ID = 3000 + shïp ID - 128
Sprite and mask PICT IDs = whatever you like, specified in the spïn resource. If you just copy the spïn of a ship from the original game, you don’t need to do anything with these.
Shipyard name STR ID = 3600 + shïp ID - 128 Long ship name STR ID = 3700 + shïp ID - 128 Short comm. name STR ID = 3800 + shïp ID - 128 Mid-length comm. name STR ID = 3900 + shïp ID - 128
I think I’ve got all of them here. Most resources are linked together by similar ID number patterns, which you can work out by comparing the IDs in the game’s data files (that’s what I did just now to get this information). The ID number minus 128, incidentally, is also called the ‘index number’, and the game makes extensive use of it.
I'm posting at last!
Uh... I managed to make the ship almost work with the help of your post.
The only thing I didn't manage was getting the proper shipyard picture. The one you see above the name of a ship.
You say: Shipyard PICT icon (32x32 version of the same image) ID = 5101 + shïp ID - 128. I got ID 5127 when I calculated the ID with the Calculator. I did get a picture for the ship, but not the right one. I didn't get the picture the Kestrel has in the Shipyard, the small one. Here is what it looks like: https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!286
I would like the ship picture for the Kestrel in the picture to look like Kestrel Plus looks like (you can see what it looks like in the picture). Which resource ID is the Kestrel shipyard picture? The 32x32 one. The only graphic I could find in EV Graphics looks like the one in the picture. Of graphics that look like a Kestrel.
And, how do I make a ship have a graphic? Also called a sprite I think. That was not mentioned in the post. The ship- the Kestrel you get the from Deliver Kestrel Parts- is otherwise complete, but lacks any sort of graphic. That means you don't see anything when leaving Blackthorne. And it makes steering the ship to a finer degree impossible. Here is a picture of what the ship looks like without a graphic : https://skydrive.liv...61AE866B274!285 I did add the spin 152 to my plug-in.
Otherwise, my plug-in is complete. I won't put the ship for hire. And since you pilot it, not the computer, the communications & target PICTs are not needed. Or the short or mid-length comm. names. I didn't even understand what short and mid-length comm. names are anyway. To which part of the hailing dialog do they refer to? The dialog you get with the Y key.
This post has been edited by General Cade Smart : 20 October 2012 - 03:44 PM
@general-cade-smart, on 20 October 2012 - 02:58 PM, said in Stronger version of Deliver Kestrel Parts Kestrel:
The game’s own data files have a single PICT — ID 5100, I believe — that contains all the 32x32 icons in a row. You can either crop the Kestrel’s icon out from that PICT, or scale down the 100x100 version.
And, how do I make a ship have a graphic? Also called a sprite I think.
You need to copy the Kestrel’s spïn resource into your plug-in, and then change the copy’s ID to match that of your shïp resource. No changes to the actual contents of the resource should be necessary.
I didn't even understand what short and mid-length comm. names are anyway. To which part of the hailing dialog do they refer to? The dialog you get with the Y key.
I believe the mid-length string is used to identify independent ships, while government ships use the short string combined with the government name.
System 7.5 has no built-in way of cropping the Kestrel from the PICT. And I don't know of any programs that have a crop feature that work with System 7.5 and a 68040 processor. Can you tell me what is the name of the program that can crop the picture, a program that works with System 7.5 and with a 68040 processor? Or the name of any program that has a crop feature?
Even if there was a program with a crop feature, I don't know how to make the picture actually be usable in EV. Would I need to save the Kestrel as a PICT? And how do I do that? And then after that, what do I do? Can I just copy & paste the Kestrel as a PICT to my plug-in?
As for scaling down, I have no idea how to do that. You would have to tell me how, in as easy to understand language as possible. Besides, I am not sure what I am supposed to do when scaling. Paint has a feature where you can change the width and height of a picture. Would it work like that?