An Open Dialogue on Developer Relations and Windows/Mac Development

Eegras Studios

I have an idea. Lets make an online EVN bible. That way, it can be easily updated when new information comes out or a part needs explaining. I can host it, ill put it all on a web page, providing the people who put it in tell me where to put it (outfits, shipyard, ships, etc...). What do yall think?

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(url="http://"http://www.eternallightstudios.com")Eternal Light Studios(/url) | (url="http://"http://thecheatslair.cjb.net")The Cheats Lair OF DEATH!!(/url) | (url="http://"http://blog.evula.net/TheCheat/")Ma Blog (Hosted by EVula(/url)
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(This message has been edited by The Cheat (edited 04-12-2004).)

mrxak

Quote

Originally posted by The Cheat:
**I have an idea. Lets make an online EVN bible. That way, it can be easily updated when new information comes out or a part needs explaining. I can host it, ill put it all on a web page, providing the people who put it in tell me where to put it (outfits, shipyard, ships, etc...). What do yall think?

**

I think it should be on my website, not yours :p.

But that's where I think we'll need to go. That's what I was saying about an "open source" bible. Have a few people be the main contributers, and let anyone else add what they want. The main contributers can check the accuracy or wording, and then they submit a new version to the community, through way of my website :p.

Eegras Studios

(quote)Originally posted by mrxak:
**I think it should be on my website, not yours:mad: Ok. You can do that if you want. :mad:

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(url="http://"http://www.eternallightstudios.com")Eternal Light Studios(/url) | (url="http://"http://thecheatslair.cjb.net")The Cheats Lair OF DEATH!!(/url) | (url="http://"http://blog.evula.net/TheCheat/")Ma Blog (Hosted by EVula(/url)
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(This message has been edited by The Cheat (edited 04-12-2004).)
**

Admiral Benden

I'd like to help write up a plug making guide: God knows we need more skilled developers. Unfortunately, I'm stapped for time. Divals and I are starting up work on Peregrine, I've got SWN going on, and then getting applications ready for college on top of that.

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Und kein Engel singt für mich.

pipeline

Mac OS X 10.3 and above has .zip compression built into the operating system. Mind you, Mac OS X doesn't use resource forks.

I'll investigate the .bin.zip situation. I also firmly believe that it's the responsibility of the plug-in developer to ensure compatability across all supported platforms.

Dave @ ATMOS

Lit Nerd

Quote

Originally posted by Admiral Benden:
I'd like to help write up a plug making guide: God knows we need more skilled developers. Unfortunately, I'm stapped for time. Divals and I are starting up work on Peregrine, I've got SWN going on, and then getting applications ready for college on top of that.

(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum;=Bomb|APO|s+Plug-in+Guide&number;=31")Bomb's(/url) already made one....

Lit Nerd

Edit: UBB and 1300th Post.

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"O For a Muse of Fire, that would ascend
The brightest Heauen of Inuention:
A Kingdome for a Stage, Princes to Act,
And Monarchs to behold the swelling Scene." Henry V

(This message has been edited by Lit Nerd (edited 06-01-2004).)

Martin Turner

I suppose one of the biggest barriers to developing for EVN is that, although EV has moved a long way forwards in terms of graphics etc, it has lagged far, far behind the commercial gaming world.

When I first played EV back in 1996, it was as good as anything on Playstation or on commercial release for Mac. The graphics maybe were weaker than some (but not all) but the encompassing universe made it the must-play Mac game. I remember it getting top reviews in magazines which compared it with everything else out there. Back in those days there were also thousands of poorly made plugins by people who thought the EV bar had been set too high, but there was also Eye of Orion, Angels of Vengeance, Clavius and Beyond, Pale, Battle Velocity and others which took EV into a new space.

EVO didn't really do anything graphically which hadn't already been beaten by the better plugins. In the meantime, Playstation graphics had improved no end, and the Tomb Raider series among others had managed to combine excellent gameplay with 3d graphics with truly compelling storylines (that's the game series, not the film).

EVN was a vast improvement graphically to the engine, and hats off to Pipeline and others for making the game so beautiful. BUT - the competition from the Playstation II et al world puts us now completely in the shade.

In the old days people used to say 'will EV be multi-player, will EV be 3d?', and we all said 'yeah right, have you any idea how tough that would be to create, it would need hard coding from the bottom up'. Actually, we are still saying that, but our game console competitors are already up there doing it.

Back in 1996, I could show people what I was making and they would say 'wow, amazing, you made THAT!'. That's kind of a rush when all you've done is figure out how to put your graphic into the place where the original 2d graphic was. Today, the only people who are impressed are people who are already sold on EV.

There are still venerable games series out there which continue to release new versions and have a cult following. But most of these have evolved far more than EV has. Games which once had dismal turn-based combat now have it fully interactive within the RPG setting. I saw my nephew playing the current 'Broken Sword' the other day. It was so, so different from the clunky, kids-book style original. On the other hand, once cutting edge games like Tomb Raider have fallen behind because they haven't introduced anything new enough to recapture the imagination. Even the most unique and classic game of them all, Sim City, has lost most its ground to its quirky and ill-mannered offspring 'the Sims'.

I'm not saying that EV should go down the 'me too' 3d graphics and multi-player route. A lot of the 3d games I've seen sacrifice smooth gameplay in return for their eye-catching visuals. Likewise, multi-player is more often talked about than achieved.

At the same time, there are some very EV things which could have been done but haven't - a planet adventure or shipboard adventure module, for example. EV has always had a very strong written component , which could be leveraged.

I'm not sure if any of this contributes to the debate I suppose what I'm saying is that while the difficulty of development has increased, the payoff in terms of 'making something as good as those games' is far less.

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M A R T I N T U R N E R
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)

pipeline

Quote

Originally posted by Martin Turner:
I'm not sure if any of this contributes to the debate I suppose what I'm saying is that while the difficulty of development has increased, the payoff in terms of 'making something as good as those games' is far less.

Very true. However, one could argue that leveraging a 3D engine is harder than making a plug-in for a 2D game.

With regards to future versions, and why EV hasn't evolved, it'd be because of money. The console gaming groups have sold a buttload of copies, and have the financial backing of the console manufacturers (in many cases). They also have development teams of fifty.

We don't, and won't... not for the foreseeable next 5 to 10 years, anyway.

Dave @ ATMOS

Badanov

Yay! I love the way this is going! Thanks everybody!

Quote

I'm sure there are plenty of users who don't spend much time on the Ambrosia boards, so they don't know what topics to bookmark, or whose private website contain what information. Most don't even know the right question to ask in order to do a successful search of the boards. So they ask the same questions over and over, and get the same persnickety responses over and over.

Quote

I have an idea. Lets make an online EVN bible. That way, it can be easily updated when new information comes out or a part needs explaining. I can host it, ill put it all on a web page, providing the people who put it in tell me where to put it (outfits, shipyard, ships, etc...). What do yall think?

The task may be as simple as a link page with a search box. Almost all of the information necessary for the errant EVN user has already been written, I'd reckon, and 90% of it is right here. If you know where to look or who to ask.

I'd like to help, if only proofreading. I'd like to do a simple ship tut, also.

Jeez, this is so cool...

Quote

Problem is: Stuffit 7.5 used to be on Aladdin FTP, before being removed, then put again, then removed again.

I just got Stuffit 7.5 two weeks ago. I swear, I just guessed this url and it worked:

ftp://ftp.aladdinsys...ffit/sit751.exe

~ Badanov
cmobb at hotmail dot com

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Posted Image
"Moose and squirrel must die!" B. Badanov

Zacha Pedro

Meh! Didn't think to check enything else than /pub/. Thanks for the info!

The information about compression formats was just for you to know if you're interested, not for the average user. The average user should dowload Stuffit 7.5; drag, drop, and pray ;), or have a plug that's already a binned zip that makes things much better.

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

Eegras Studios

Quote

Originally posted by Badanov:
**The task may be as simple as a link page with a search box. Almost all of the information necessary for the errant EVN user has already been written, I'd reckon, and 90% of it is right here. If you know where to look or who to ask.

I'd like to help, if only proofreading. I'd like to do a simple ship tut, also.

Jeez, this is so cool...
**

Yes we know that. Its just we want a single place where there is up to date information. The searches on this board start from oldest to newest so, most people dont notice that and get crappy information then come to this board and say:' Help! My plug crashes on start up! I got all my information here: [http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/yaddayadda."](http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/yaddayadda.) That takes up server space. I (for one) am trying to save server space on the ASW server so that we can have more disscussions about if theres new stuff or 'Help! My plug crashes on start up! I did this and this as well as this.' That kind of post we can help. The other one we can help but we are also pointing out that these fourms search engine is ****ed up. Im leaning to the one page (or so) off ambrosia servers to have all the EVN updated bible.

-Travis Bauscher

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(url="http://"http://www.eternallightstudios.com")Eternal Light Studios(/url) | (url="http://"http://thecheatslair.cjb.net")The Cheats Lair OF DEATH!!(/url) | (url="http://"http://blog.evula.net/TheCheat/")Ma Blog (Hosted by EVula(/url)
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(This message has been edited by The Cheat (edited 04-12-2004).)

Entarus

First off thank you mrxak for creating this topic.

Martin you make valid points. EV has indeed lagged behind the the commerical world , but its people who think EV has to compete with them who go wrong.

You see people think that the only way they can make something other people would consider decent is to make a TC , or have fancy new graphics. No , all of these things should be added value and not become the center as indeed is the case with many commerical products.

We need to go back to the core of EV development and that is a compelling storyline and intresting use of basic features. We don't need new graphics all the time , or why on earth would we need all those advanced features like binary counters, while these are nice examples of how far you can push the engine they are rarely used in projects.

We need YOU(I'm talking to all developers or people who want to start) to come forward with that nice story you've had in your mind for so long. Write the story and then use the available tools make a decent plug , something that uses the features nova offers , but not something that uses all sorts of tricks or new graphics etc... .

People have forgotten that EV is a community game , and a community does not build upon fancy features , instead it builds upon stories , tales that people tell.

EVN was for me all about the story , it sucked me in , if EVN was a plug for EV/O without all the advanced features or great graphics it would have been just as good.

All we need is a little less ambition to create the next big thing and a little more creative idea's , so turn of your computer now , place yourself in a comfy chair and start writing your story.

Then try to make it in a plug-in to the best of your abilities , but if your plug-in has no new graphics or does not use binary counters , its alright , I'll play it , because you'll provide me with a tale , a story to read and something to play , not only to look at, something that keeps me playing , graphics are nice but the "wow" effect fades after a few hours. Instead a compelling story can keep your eyes glued to the screen till late at night.

Everyone needs to lower their bar a bit and look at what Nova is and always will be , its a game born of the community and that is where it belongs.

It does not belong next to all the fancy new 3D titles , no Nova has a special place on my bench.

If everyone were to lower their standards abit and don't expect Nova (and mainly Nova plugs) to be what it isn't , I'm sure we would see many more plugs and see things come to live again. Just like It was back in April 2002.

Also because there are many people with great idea's on their minds but if you place the bar too high they will never come forward and I consider that a loss.

Don't wait for anything to happen because it won't , just find something you wanted to do and do it.

And if you tried but the result isn't very good yet , that is fine , at least you had what it takes to come forward with your idea and do it.

EV development is not very hard , you just need to do it , and if you don't do it right the first time that's fine , because nobody does , just keep trying , ask for advice and your plugin will be what you wanted it to be.

Do or do not , there is no try.

I thank your for your attention.

All the best,

Entarus,

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"Don't wait for your life to happen , find something you are happy with and do it"
(url="http://"http://www.ariossoftware.com/products/evone/")EVONE 1.0pb2 - the plugin editor for EV/EVO/EVN(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&number;=9&SUBMIT;=Go&urgaylol;=yes")EV Developer's Corner(/url)
(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/ubb/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum;=Uplink+web+board&number;=69") Uplink Forum(/url)

(This message has been edited by Entarus (edited 06-03-2004).)

Zacha Pedro

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**Mac OS X 10.3 and above has .zip compression built into the operating system. Mind you, Mac OS X doesn't use resource forks.

I'll investigate the .bin.zip situation. I also firmly believe that it's the responsibility of the plug-in developer to ensure compatability across all supported platforms.

Dave @ ATMOS**

I was thinking about that lately (btw, what do you man by "doesn't use resource forks"?), and went checking the add-on files, and the submit a file dialog. It still tells you to compress with Stuffit (fine except for Nova, the dialog stands for all file submissions) or Compact pro (highly outdated, Stuffit expander refuses to unstuff it unless you pay for expander enhancer, the program Compact pro itself is discontinued, not working nativly under OSX, and the self-extracting archives extract themselves only on OS9, not natively on OSX, and not a all on Windows), then, it tells you to hqx or bin it, to ensure the preservation of the resource fork for self-extracting archives and prevent file corruption (or at the very least tell if there's any), which still makes sense, but isn't very adaptated either for distribution to PC guys. Ideally, the objective would be to have all Mac guys downloading only need Stuffit expander (reliable on Macs for things that are not too OSX-ish, and bundled on all Macs for quite some time, as it's litterally impossible to distribute a Mac application through Internet without a decompressor/deencoder, Apple made sure there was one rightaway), and all PC guys only need a .zip decompressor. I don't want the uncompression, which should be a trivial operation, to be like the stuff I had to come up with in (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/ubb/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum17&topic;=000633")that article(/url) I'm writing.

By the way, I noticed that my way to .bin encode (the dropMacBinary in the MacBinary page I linked to) isn't OSX native (I tend to forget about that kind of thing since that Mac will forever remain in OS9, don't worry I have another Mac in OSX), so I searched and found (url="http://"http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/11854")this(/url) and some others at VersionTracker.

In the interest of platform compatibility, the readme, too, should be platform compatible. The best way is to make it in (basic) html. If you don't have something that can save in html, take the text of your readme. Make it undergo four global search and replace:
-the first one (order is important!) replaces < chars by <
-the second one replaces > chars by >
-the third one, all two consecutive new line chars with 
-the last one replaces individual new line chars by

Then put before it:
<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>(the title you want the readme window to have once open)</TITLE></HEAD>
<BODY bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> (black text on white background works better)
 (everyone has Arial)

Then, add </BODY></HTML> at the end.

Now, the W3C won't exactly be pleased by such an exacting respect of standards, but that will be well enough for a readme. Internet browsers can read this, provided you give the file an extension of .htm or .html

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

(This message has been edited by Zacha Pedro (edited 06-06-2004).)

pipeline

Quote

Originally posted by Zacha Pedro:
btw, what do you man by "doesn't use resource forks"?

Apple has depracated resource forks in Mac OS X. The file system still supports them, and the Carbon libraries can still call them, but no Cocoa app and no part of the operating system require them. Packages are intended to be used instead of multi-fork files.

Quote

< HTML instructions>

I think it's safe to assume that David Dunham knows how to make an HTML doc, thanks. :rolleyes: All you needed to do was say "probably better to make an HTML doc." Geez.

Dave @ ATMOS

mrxak

(quote)Originally posted by pipeline:
**I think it's safe to assume that David Dunham knows how to make an HTML doc, thanks.;).

pipeline

Quote

Originally posted by mrxak:
I think he meant readmes that plug-in developers make;).

Well, ****. Now I feel like a fool.

Sorry, Zacha!

Dave @ ATMOS

SpacePirate

Just some quick input here. Why not just use .txt formats? I know personally both textedit for the mac and notepad for windows save in this format; anyone should be able to use it. Furthermore, any web browser has the ability to read .txt files. .txt is infinitely easier to do than html, especially for the average newbie. I don't bother with pretty graphics or formatting in my FAQs, so there is no need for html, really.

Secondly, on the addons page, it should be changed to recommend .bin.zip files, rather than .sit. DropZip in the Expander package works wonderfully, though it costs money, but I'm sure there is a free solution somewhere. DropZip includes the option to automatically .bin any macintosh files using a resource fork. With that set, it's just drag and drop.

You know, I'll admit myself that I have not even touched Nova in months. Though I am an incredibly experienced developer, there just hasn't been any reason for me to develop. Why? Probably because of time restraints in real life, but most likely because there doesn't seem to be as much interest in Nova as good ol' EV. I personally found that EVN was too story-driven, and thus, it did not allow for much additions to the story. In EV and EVO, the story was fairly loose, and anyone could, with relative ease, add in a mission at nearly any point in the game. With Nova, you need to create a new storyline from the ground up, modify an existing one, or have multiple variants depending on which storyline the user is currently in. Much more work, no matter how you look at it.

As pipe has mentioned, the graphics were never a major factor (except for the extremely anal developers like myself; I don't know how many times I redesigned my mobile suits before I pretty much scrapped it...). Innovation, too, isn't a big deal. Sure, having cool effects is always interesting, but should never be core to the gameplay. I'm a big fan of oldschool. Simple stories, simple graphics, simple implementation. It was always the gameplay that mattered.

I personally started a (url="http://"http://evula.org/infernostudios/plugdev/")plugin guide(/url), but never had any time to play with it. If we ever get a centralized effort, I'd be glad to submit content to that, as well as include what I've done for that guide. Also, ev-nova.net has an faq going, at (url="http://"http://www.ev-nova.net/faq/")http://www.ev-nova.net/faq/(/url) , it contains quite a bit of useful information. It's even searchable! However, people do not know about this. I say we should hurry up and get at least some content started at mrxak's assorted webspace, and then have links to all the information here in the EV manual. A lot of information exists, it is only a manner of finding it.

mrxak, if you could get a quick submission and search utility up on your site, people could begin submitting whatever information they have, or what they find. We need FAQs, plugin-creation guides, graphics tutorials, and technical support, all in one place. Easy enough.

So,

1. Make centralized location for information.
2. Fix the submission dialogue.
3. Link to varied information.
4. Consolidate varied information into a coherent database.
5. Ensure that this information is distributed, and readily accessible by the public.

And by ensure, I mean ENSURE. Make sure everyone knows where it is, and how to submit content. Have people review content, and update FREQUENTLY. It needs a lot of people to help, and most of all, popularity. If we get this started, I'll do my part.

~ SpacePirate

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Fear the SpacePirate,
He made a (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/search.html")plug-in search page(/url)...
And he'll board your ship! -mrxak

SpacePirate

Well, just because I couldn't sleep, I hunted down some freeware zip and bin utilities, and wrote up a quick readme. It's currently hosted on my webspace from (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/downloads/binandzip.zip")here(/url). Someone please go over the readme, as I did write it at 4 am, and it's almost certainly only partially coherent. Remember, our goal is to make these things as easy to use as possible! Post further suggestions here, or email me at h y p e r m i k e @ a d e l p h i a . n e t . You know, without the extraneous spaces.

~ SpacePirate

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Fear the SpacePirate,
He made a (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/search.html")plug-in search page(/url)...
And he'll board your ship! -mrxak

(url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/")InfernoStudios(/url) was last updated 06 June, 2004.

(This message has been edited by SpacePirate (edited 06-07-2004).)

Zacha Pedro

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
**

Originally posted by mrxak:
(i) I think he meant readmes that plug-in developers make    <IMG SRC="http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/webboard/wink.gif" HEIGHT="15" WIDTH="15">.(/i)

Well, ****. Now I feel like a fool.

Sorry, Zacha!

Dave @ ATMOS**

That's what I meant, indeed. No problem, Dafydd (am I writing it right?)

Space Pirate, I made this instructions because txt is indeed the same for all platforms, being coded in ASCII (which is basically a correspondance between one byte and one char, normalised long ago), except for two things:
-the end of line chars is ASCII 13 (hex 0x0D), called Carriage Return or CR, on Mac, while on a PC it's a Carriage Return followed by a LineFeed (ASCII 10, hex 0x0A), and I think UNIXes use just a LF, but that's not an issue for us. Therefore, a txt made on a Mac will have no line return (just an illegal char, CR) when openeed on a PC, except when opened with WordPad, which isn't the automatic choice of Windows. Conversely, a readme in txt made on a PC will have an illegal char (LF) at the beginning of each line. Less of a problem, but annoying.
-the first 128 chars only have actually been specified by the ASCII norm. These are uppercase, lowercase, numbers, 32 control chars (in them CR and LF), punctuation, and other usual chars such as {}()_/*-+$<> etc... The 128 others (there are 256 possible in a byte) are system dependant. These are accented chars such as our beloved ë, ä, ÿ, ü, ï, ö, and quite a number of diverse things (that may be system-dependant themselves) such as Mac-specific apostrophe, opening and closing quotes, that are seen as accented uppercase o's on a PC (that's the case you're most likely to meet in English text made on a Mac, but obviously as a French I've been affected by bad accented chars more that once, especially in games where they think that the Mac French localisation is just the Mac game engine with the french data, and it's not only a display problem, it has the potential to crash the game #@%!). Therefore, if you open on a platform a text created by the other with accented chars or special chars, the accented or special chars will appear as completely different accented accented or special chars. Not pretty.

HTML, having been made to be platform-independant, is not affected by these problems, using and for new lines and paragraphs, respecively, and even on Macs everyone has his browser encoding set to ISO-Latin 1, making accented chars the same for everyone in HTML (i.e. approximately the way they are on a PC). We don't need HTML for the formatting nor the links nor the graphics, just for the cross-platform compatibility.

However, I forgot this last instruction in my HTML instructions to ensure it: tell your text editor to save in raw txt, ISO-Latin 1 encoding, and after saving change or add the exention .html. Then open it with an internet browser to check.

Free .bin encoders are fairly easy to find, as it's unbeleivably simple to do (hey, I could do it by hand myself with an hex editor). However, compression is another story entirely, but I don't have any info on it, I'll look into you stuff as soon as I can, Space Pirate.

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The (url="http://"https://secure.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/store/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item;=breakdown.html&BREAKDOWN;_SKUID=1480")Ambrosia Mac CD(/url) with other registrations - 5$. Paying for (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/")EV Nova(/url) as it's such a great game - 30$.
The (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/games/evn/tshirts.html")1337 EV Nova T-shirt(/url)(url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/webboard/Forum25/HTML/000003.html#ZachaPedro05-18-200409:42AM") (/url) - 22$. The (url="http://"http://w00tware.ev-nova.net/")NovaTools(/url) by wOOtWare to tinker with your Nova - FREE!
The feeling you're a Nova geek - priceless.
There are things money can't buy or that are free, for everything else, there's indeed Mastercard.

Zacha Pedro

Quote

Originally posted by pipeline:
Apple has depracated resource forks in Mac OS X. The file system still supports them, and the Carbon libraries can still call them, but no Cocoa app and no part of the operating system require them. Packages are intended to be used instead of multi-fork files.

I knew part of it, especially the package thing... (so, OSX can theoretically run off a flat (i.e. supporting only one fork per file) filesystem? Impressive, but I suppose there isn't any Classic support then). Thanks for the info.

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