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Mequa, don't be discouraged what you see here. Martin, as I'm sure you've noticed, is somewhat of a fluke... He has a lot more ambition than the rest of us, and obviously, he followed a completely different path than us. The entire point he was trying to make was that while you are posting what may work for you, everyone has to do his or her own thing.
Personally, the biggest hindrance I can personally state about making a TC is the lack of sufficient planning. I got started on a Gundam TC even before Nova was released. Is it released yet? Hell no. Do I consider it dead? Again, hell no. I fully intend to bring my ideas to life, even if in the end, it is not released for Nova. It may take 5 more years to finish this damned thing, but eventually, I will release it.
'What's taking so long?' you might ask. Primarily, I started by plotting out a bunch of systems, and making 3D graphics to put into those systems. A noble start, building the universe in layers> systems, ships to go in those systems, governments to contain those ships, a story between those governments, and finally, missions. I believe this is the same path Uncle Twitchy is following with his Star Trek TC. Unfortunately, I realized at one point that my graphics really sucked. So I redid a bunch of them. They were much better. But still not to the point I liked. I then looked at my universe. Oh man it was ugly. So I scrapped it, and went back to the drawing board. I still have all of my ships, and still have all of my systems, but at this point, I'm just thinking about how I'm going to lay everything out, and how it will all interact.
In this, I'm something of a perfectionist. I won't release something professional until I think it is perfect. That may be part of my problem, but the entire point here is exactly what I mentioned above, in the first paragraph. Everyone follows the same path. I started in what turned out to be pretty much the same direction as Uncle Twitchy, until I realized that that what I was doing didn't work for me. So, in response to your advice:
1. Adequate resources and time really have nothing to do with it. I'm so damned busy I hardly have time to do what I please, but even so, that isn't stopping me from at the least thinking about what I want to do. All it takes, in my opinion, is the ambition to get it done.
2. As others have said, it may be better to try to make a TC, just to see just how much work it is to do it. If you can get it done, more power to you. But if not, you will come back with valuable knowledge about the plugmaking process.
3. Again, that's not necessary. You may have ideas you want to try out, and use the dev corner as a sounding board (excuse the pun). That 'rule' only came up as a result to the fact that many people tried to get into development, and announced what they are going to do. Turns out, they didn't have the ambition. By all means, ask for advice, get the word out, ask for help. Just don't say '0|/|9 7h15 1$ 73h 13373$7 |>|u9 3/4r!'. Ev4r.
4. As I said, that is one way to do it. Another is, as I said, to do things in layers. Put out all the systems. Populate the systems, etc.
Best! ~ SP
------------------ Fear the SpacePirate, He made a (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/search.html")plug-in search page(/url)... And he'll board your ship! -mrxak *** (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/")InfernoStudios(/url) was last updated 06 June, 2004. ***
A fluke? Once, perhaps? But twice...?
Seriously though, Space Pirate gives very good advice. There is nobody out there who really knows how to make TCs, which is why I always object strenuously whenever anybody tries to put forward a set of hard and fast rules or, worse, a 'system' for making TCs.
To me a TC is like a novel. There are tens of thousands of novels in the world, but there are hundreds of thousands of people who have started writing and never finished. There are also thousands of books about how to write novels. But none of them are by people who wrote what are generally agreed to be 'great' novels. Every writer has their own unique way of coming up with the germ of the story. A number of highly successful or even great authors were initially rejected by publishers - some of them for the books that made them famous.
Novel writing has been going on since the eighteenth century. Computer games have only been on the menu since the 70s (unless you count primitive mainframe games).
My number one piece of advice would be: find a story that inspires you.Then do the work to make it live.
------------------ M A R T I N T U R N E R (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FrozenHeart104.sit.bin")Frozen Heart(/url) (url="http://"http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/cgi-bin/vftp/show.pl?product=evo&category;=plugins&display;=downloads&file;=FemmeFatale.sea.bin")Femme Fatale(/url) (url="http://"http://www.ambrosiasw.com/cgi-bin/vftp/dl-redirect.pl?path=evo/plugins&file;=Frozen Heart - the No.hqx")Frozen Heart - the Novel(/url)
Quote
Originally posted by Martin Turner: **But the sarcasm was your own interpretation, not my intention. Put it down to cultural difference. Ah - but I forgot - you're American and don't understand that. (oops. British irony (/off). delete. delete. delete.)
Pax?
**
While I did pick up on the verbal irony, you have to realize that the difference in cultures combined with the inability to pick up on vocal intones through written text can make one interpret what you may not have written as bighting sarcasm into exactly that.
Whould this be Pax Turnero?
Joe
------------------ "Life is tough, but it's even tougher when you're stupid." -John Wayne
(This message has been edited by jdh545 (edited 08-04-2004).)
Oops - reply instead of edit. Joe ------------------ "Life is tough, but it's even tougher when you're stupid." -John Wayne
Perhaps you could have thought of that before you posted....?
But seriously, this is getting boring. Let's drop this particular interlude and move on.
mequadrunner:
If you want some tips, you might want to do a search for 'the 110 commandments of plugin making' and also for 'creativity'. There are a few other threads which have brought together the assembled wisdom of most of the people on this board. All good stuff. I would shy away from some of threads which more or less say "this is exactly how to make a TC... step 1"
Originally posted by jdh545: **
Wildly off topic.
Now you've got me worried about declensions. I think that Pax Romana uses 'Romana' in its basic sense as an adjective, so it's just agreeing with pax (pax, pacis, 3rd declension f) in the nominative. I'm not sure what the adjectival form of 'Turner' is. Pax Turna, perhaps, or simply Pax Turner, like pater, mater?
Well, lets say It is second, and instead of using an adverbial form, we just go ahead and use the genitive - that will give su a reasonably close meaning, and one which we can definately translate properly - Pax Turneri (or if 3rd Pax Turneris). Regardless, sure. Joe
Originally posted by Martin Turner: ** mequadrunner: I would shy away from some of threads which more or less say "this is exactly how to make a TC... step 1"
This is only my advice for people who are trying to make TC. It is not a requirement, and there are not listed in any particular order.
------------------
So... does all this "find out what works for yourself" stuff mean that I should, at least, partially ignore the TC section of "Bomb's Plug-in Gude?" That I shouldn't follow it to the letter? etc. etc.? In anyone else's experiance, does having another person working on the project actually help you in ways other then their actual work (i.e. motivation).
Also, about the whole context thing... That's what emotes and sarcasm tags are for. I seen many, many nasty incidents that could have been avoided by someone simple typing (sarcasm)(/sarcasm) when they were sarcastic. Otherwise, you have to be able to really know the person personally... which is very hard to do, obviously.
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.evula.org/infernostudios/search.html")The plug-in search engine!(/url)
Originally posted by Phyvo: So... does all this "find out what works for yourself" stuff mean that I should, at least, partially ignore the TC section of "Bomb's Plug-in Gude?" That I shouldn't follow it to the letter? etc. etc.? In anyone else's experiance, does having another person working on the project actually help you in ways other then their actual work (i.e. motivation).
Don't ignore it, but definitely don't follow it exactly. In my experience, other people have gotten in the way more than they have helped... You argue over semantic points, and in the end, end up doing very little work at all. Even with a dedicated "leader", there is no way of evenly dividing the work ("You do the outfits, I'll do the governments, you do the planets...") that will please everyone. In the end, someone will almost always do something someone else doesn't like. But again, this is my experience, and you may find a team may work for you.
At the most, I'd say, is to get all the work done yourself. As you come closer to finishing it, you may seek out a graphics designer to replace your placeholder graphics with actual ships, an editor to go over your text, and a few alpha testers to make sure everything flows smoothly- icing on the cake. On the internet especially, you can't trust anyone to be there when you need them; real life happens all too often. But don't listen to me, follow your own philosophy.
**Also, about the whole context thing... That's what emotes and sarcasm tags are for. I seen many, many nasty incidents that could have been avoided by someone simple typing (sarcasm)(/sarcasm) when they were sarcastic. Otherwise, you have to be able to really know the person personally... which is very hard to do, obviously.
Seriously, it's not that big of a deal. The developers corner is among the least vicious boards out there, and most problems, if there are any, resolve themselves without any trouble. Further, most of the criticisms people posted above are generally constructive in nature. Besides, emotes and blatantly pointing out the sarcasm breaks up the flow of things... It's usually blatantly obvious if you look for it... as I said, most people here don't mean any harm. Well, not too much harm.
~ SpacePirate
(This message has been edited by SpacePirate (edited 08-05-2004).)
The only concrete rule that really applies towards making a Total Conversion is: Finish it.
I suspect that perseverence, endurance, dedication, and a work ethic are also more useful towards achieving this end than talent in writing or graphics.
Hm....Turner, Turnerorum, masculine...quite interesting. AP Latin this fall = lots of pain and anguish, it seems now...
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(This message has been edited by UE_Research & Development (edited 08-05-2004).)
Wow...a flame war with Martin Turner and I'm not involved. I should read this board more often.
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zhouj posted again? :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Anyways, I think the best thing to do, in the future would be to talk to different developers who finish TCs and ask them what worked for them. This, of course, assumes that more TCs will be finished in the future.
Well, while it is generally true that a small portion of people get away with breaking the rules, in general, they hold true. I have been around a long time, since EV was released. I have seen similar advice released by others in this community, and as long as they were established members, the advice was received with much more grace. Perhaps if you are indeed not trying to sound haughty, you should just go ahead and not make haughty comments. This is the way of things - the phrase 'no offense, but' all but guarantees that that offensive material will follow, and does not by any means make that material any less offensive (it servers only to prove that the speaker is a fool).
I hate to bring up a dying topic but I feel that I have to defend myself. I was in no means trying to be rude or haughty. If anything I thought that I was being supportive? (The point that I was trying to make was that even if you don't succeed you can still have a lot of fun making stuff up and getting lost in your stories and learn a lot. Even trying this has taught me more about Photoshop than the last ten years of work, and making some (crappy) ships in Mechanisto has me somewhat fiending for the buying power to get Lightwave or something else a little better than the affore-mentioned shareware. Even if my TC goes vapour I'll enjoy what I've done immensely (especially since it's been my only recreation in the last two years or so).)
Sorry to bring it up. I would of replied earlier when it was more appropriate to do so but as I have stated I work a lot and I've not been home in a few days.
edit: Amplification and clairifying a somewhat vague post. ------------------ Drinking causes hangovers. (url="http://"http://www.freewebs.com/rmx256/index.htm")Kemet T.C. Website(/url)
(This message has been edited by rmx256 (edited 08-06-2004).)
The moral of the story: you can only give advice to someone who respects your opinion. Giving advice to someone when a) it hasn't been requested, and when no one knows you, comes off as arrogant and people will react against you and your advice alike...
...not that you asked for that advice, and not that you know me...
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Does anyone feel that it is worthwhile to ask people who have actually finished Total Conversions about their thoughts regarding tips and ideas as to carrying a project through to completion? I mean this as in people who have both presently finished and (in the future) people who finish plugs in the future.
If they have any tips, and are willing to give them out, I'd say at the least take them into consideration. But again, it's one of those "worked for me" scenarios. It couldn't hurt to try it out for yourself, though.
~ SP