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Originally posted by orcaloverbri9: **True...but then again, there's always hypergates!:D
Of course, we have no justification for hypergates, seeing as we can't even teleport. And wormholes...are we even sure of their existence? I think what would be best is to find the quickest way to each Alien galaxy, and then have a mission that moves the player to the nearest alien system of that galaxy, incrementing the date accordingly. I'm not sure about fuel. Maybe just give every ship 100,000 fuel, with no display on the sidebar.
I'm getting ideas for a TC...each system has a star, systems are far apart, weapons are physical or laser beams, and possibly plasma cannons (not little blasts, a steady stream), etc...remind me to save this topic to my computer.
**
Hyperjumping, hyperspacing etc is not "teleportation". Its a theory that says you rip a whole in our time space continum thingy, slip into an alternate one where the rules of physics are different, at a location that correspons to the point you left our universe, fly along for a bit, and come out at another destination.
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How can we know that hypergates are not possible. I would bet my last dollar that 100 years ago that most any scientist of the day would have said that you could not fly an airplane that weighed as much as a modern jetliner. After all it is just common sense that 200,000 plus pounds could never be hurled through the sky and the energy it would take to do so would destroy the world.
As yet it has not been tested that we can not approach or pass the speed of light. It was once thought that we would desintegrate going faster than sound.
Let's just say that the world will likely be a much different place in a hundred years. We are only beginning to learn what is possible and while your guess may be better than mine, no one can know what will be common knowledge and that some teenager in the next hundred years looks at what we know today and calls us uneducated savages.
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(This message has been edited by Tiresmoke (edited 12-26-2003).)
Anyhow, I never said that there couldn't be a more intelligent speciesยthe thing is, the aliens we see in SF are almost always more advanced. Sure, there are probably some, but if you're going to include super-smart guys, you should probably have have not-super-smart guys for a more balanced (and realistic) universe.
Of course, realism isn't as interesting as SF unless you do it very well.
That's okay. You're right about the 'super-advanced' aliens being an overused stereotype. It ranks up there on the Sci-Fi Annoyance Scale along with the other stereotype, 'evil genocidal aliens who want to annihilate humanity'. Can't we come up with something different? 6 billion minds, some more creative than others?
Some things might be better realistic. Some misconceptions have been hammered into people's minds so thoroughly that it might be a better tactical decision to stick with the misconception (except if it's really important). It's a case-by-case decision.
(Of course, you could always set something in an alternate universe with its own set of physics, etc (kind of like what Disney did with Treasure Planet). That way, you could make your explosions bursts of fairy dust if you really wanted to, and nobody would be able to complain :D.
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(This message has been edited by UE_Research & Development (edited 12-26-2003).)
Originally posted by UE_Research & Development: **'evil genocidal aliens who want to annihilate humanity'. Can't we come up with something different? 6 billion minds, some more creative than others?
Oh. (Runs away to re-write plug-in story)
** (Of course, you could always set something in an alternate universe with its own set of physics, etc (kind of like what Disney did with Treasure Planet). That way, you could make your explosions bursts of fairy dust if you really wanted to, and nobody would be able to complain:D.
Ahh, Treasure Planet. I just got that on DVD. Great movie, absolutely Inspirational.
The Universe with it's own set of physics is a good idea, then you could get away with absolutely anything really. Must write that down.
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Well, I don't see any justification that hyper-anything (speed, space, gates, etc.) is possible. Although it does make for good SF, how would it happen? Can we really go over 300 million meters per second? If we could manipulate time, we could theoretically tesser to other places...but we can't manipulate time. It is somethingwe have essentially created, and if you really think about it, you start wondering about it. Does it actually exist? Or is it just in our imaginations, a tool to make life easier?
But then, we live in a three-dimensional world, and don't really understand time, the "fourth dimension". It's too much to get your head around, really.
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Ahh but we really don't know what Gravity is as yet. We know about it's effects but we really don'y understand what creates it or how to control it. Then again there was a time we could not understand radio waves or what they would do either. I bet you don't even give much thought to how your microwave oven works either but it's a good thing that someone got their heads around that one.
(url="http://"http://www.b5tech.com/misctech/engines/hyperdrive/hyperdrive.html")http://www.b5tech.co...hyperdrive.html(/url) theres one take on the hyperdrive. If you want "Realism" watch Babylon 5. Its proabably the best SciFi in terms of realism, esp. compared to Star Trek, Star Wars etc
About aliens, I'd like to point out that we have had many extinction events on our planet, while others may have been more lucky. For sure there will be aliens much below ourselves in technology, and there will be many at our level. However, you have to realize that if we did not have asteroids colliding into our planet as often as they have, other species might have evolved to a level equal to ours earlier than we did. That would mean they would be more advanced than us at this point. It all comes down to chance. It may be unlikely for more advanced species to exist, but not anywhere near impossible. Even if they are the same age, then consider the sociology of another species. They may be much more united in cause than we are. One nation, able to concentrate all of its scientific research to what is important to them. Or maybe they've fought more wars with each other, forcing military strengths and medical technology to increase at a much greater rate. Evolution works by randomization. There is the change of a species evolving much faster to a Human-comparable smartness. It all depends on the environment and luck, and you can't possibly claim that we are the greatest in the universe.
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Ok.. now I'm getting slightly confused... you are talking about realism in Science Fiction? That's why it's called fiction! It's made up, it doesn't need to be real Though, you could call it SNF (Science Non-Fiction)
Originally posted by Ephialtes: Ok.. now I'm getting slightly confused... you are talking about realism in Science Fiction? That's why it's called fiction! It's made up, it doesn't need to be real:p Though, you could call it SNF (Science Non-Fiction)
At this point, I think the topic has turned to two different subjects: - Alien species and their technological advances relative to us (though this has lessened) - Which weapons and such in SF should feasibly be kept, and which should be changed in favor of a more realistic approach
I think the elements that should be changed should probably be: - Shields (realisticly, these aren't too likely) - Little blast weapons (in reality, these would probably be considered unfeasible in favor of steady streams, i.e. beams) - Not been talked about here, but I've heard of exactly two stars in the EV games; each systyem should have its own (it adds effect and, once again, is more realistic) - A bunch of super-smart alien species without any others for balance
You have to maintain a certain balance between "interesting" and "realistic". Kind of like 3D gamesยyou usually can't have perfect quality, as this gives you like 5 FPS unless you have the highest quality sound and video card and the best processor and...all that good stuff. Usually, though, you have to balance between quality and speed.
(This message has been edited by orcaloverbri9 (edited 12-27-2003).)
My opinion on shields is that, while the sort of SF transparent-energy-field-that-absorbs-laser-blasts is not very realistic, certain types of shields are theoretically feasible.
1. Magnetic. Extremely powerful dynamic magnetic fields, used to deflect missiles and metallic projectiles. (Weakness: Nonmetallic projectiles can ram through and damage the shield electromagnets/mechanism (superconductor grid over the hull, perhaps?) or other systems.)
2. Particle. A layer of dust/superheated plasma/etc sandwhiched between two magnetic fields. Absorbs lasers, vaporizes projectiles, etc. (Weakness: Depletion of particles held in fields faster than you can replenish them.)
Originally posted by orcaloverbri9: ** I think the elements that should be changed should probably be: - Shields (realisticly, these aren't too likely) - Little blast weapons (in reality, these would probably be considered unfeasible in favor of steady streams, i.e. beams) - Not been talked about here, but I've heard of exactly two stars in the EV games; each systyem should have its own (it adds effect and, once again, is more realistic) - A bunch of super-smart alien species without any others for balance
I Disagree with you on shields, I think they should stay, at least in Plug-ins. However unlikely they may be. Shield bubbles look cool. If you were to do Just armour though, you could make the shield bar an Armour bar, and the Armour bar a hull strength bar.
I Agree about the little blast weapons, I think it should be either proper lasers, Missiles/rockets or projectiles like railguns.
Stars should be Included, I think the only real objection was the way the ships were lit woulden't look right because the star should have an effect on the lighting, but It won't. That seems to me not to be very important. Stars should be used, especially now we have the deadly spob feature in Nova.
Super Smart Aliens can be Included, but as you said it must have balance, give them a weakness for the player to exploit.
yeah, star graphics, gravity, deadlyness are always nice. However when warping out and you fly over the star.... well its a bit of a pisser
Originally posted by Pod: yeah, star graphics, gravity, deadlyness are always nice. However when warping out and you fly over the star.... well its a bit of a pisser
There are some things that the Nova Engine wasn't made for. It's not perfect.
Redeemer: I was actually intending to do exactly that with the shields and armor. Neither can recharge, though, which would provide a bit of a challenge. And armor would be outfits rather than standard on the ship.
The stars are something I will do, but orbiting like in SS ain't gonna happen. Nothing's perfect.
Here's my list of what should be: Weapons: - Beam lasers only, no blasters, especially since they would go at the speed of light and you'd never see them - Beam plasma cannons - Physical (e.g. railguns) - Rockets/missiles Systems: - Aliens should be far away - Each should have a star Aliens: - Not all super-smart - If any super-smart, provide some sort of balance
Another thing I'd like would be ramming your ship. It's a 2D game, so ramming should be expected. It would make sure that you couldn't fly over other ships (or asteroids), would deal out damage, and would recoil and do damage to the rammer. It would be a short-range PD turreted beam. But how would we get it to not ram where no ship part is? What I mean is, doesn't it have a set range?
I'll just point out that gravity screws up the AI. If you put gravitational/deadly spรถbs in every system, you're going to have lots of problems.
I think stars are 'implied', like the planets Saturn---Pluto in the Sol system, and the existence of more than one planet in a station. If you put star spobs in every system, your gameplay will probably be degraded to the point where people won't play because they'll become too frustrated.
And what's wrong with packeted weapons? They don't have to be lasers- has that possibility ever become apparent to anyone?
Originally posted by orcaloverbri9: **Well, I don't see any justification that hyper-anything (speed, space, gates, etc.) is possible. Although it does make for good SF, how would it happen? Can we really go over 300 million meters per second? If we could manipulate time, we could theoretically tesser to other places...but we can't manipulate time. It is somethingwe have essentially created, and if you really think about it, you start wondering about it. Does it actually exist? Or is it just in our imaginations, a tool to make life easier?
Actually, there are good theoretical models for manipulating time. Get 3 massive neutron stars, line them up, spin them at a high fraction of the speed of light and you should be able to form a closed loop of time round them. All to do with knocking over light cones. There are a few others. Some require different universes, however.
Don't make assumptions about the human race's understanding of physics. There are a few physicists hanging around here, so ask them questions instead. We'd be happy to help :^)
- Shields (realisticly, these aren't too likely)
Actually, shields could be built using magnetic fields, or possibly by manipulating gravity. Deflecting charged particles is easy in terms of concept. Gravity could deflect anything, at a strong enough level. Alternatively, you could have a magnetic bubble around your ship, with an outer envelope of plasma which you use to disrupt/incinerate incoming fire.
- Little blast weapons (in reality, these would probably be considered unfeasible in favor of steady streams, i.e. beams)
In a sense, steady beams are in fact blast weapons due to the dual wave/particle nature of everything :^) If you're not using light, then you're going to end with little blasts anyway and plenty of things are suited to that. Charged particles of various varieties, accelerated to high speed or excited to high temperature, would do a good job.
On a very practical side, in terms of providing power to weapons, ammo usage, stress on components, etc. small blasts rather than sustained beams are quite appealing. On a related note, lasers are horrendously inefficient. We're talking single figure percentage when you go from electrical power in to laser power out. It's also a lot easier to get higher damage from other weapon types at the moment. Could well be true in the future. Where lasers would excel is PD work and targeting specific ship systems once defences are down. Blinding sensors for instance.
You also get big problems using beams at long range due to diffraction. The beam spreads out and loses focus. There are physical limits on how much you can do to fix this, depending on the size of your firing aperture, due to quantum mechanics. The bigger the aperture, the less spreading you'll get, but the less concentration you'll be starting off with.
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I do have a question to any physics expert.
As light is able to have a frequency and can be measured in wave lenghs, can another wave be modulated to it such as a sound or radio frequency?
I know that high decible sound can be used as a weapon and ultrasound can be used to break down kidney stones. How about a microwave modulated in frequencies that could heat and cause hull damage?
I was wondering if weapons like the Fusion Pulse Cannon would work, it sounds like it would.
Also, with lasers, why can't you fire it for only a few milliseconds to produce a single 'shot'. Of course it wouldn't have very much range, but would this be feasible?
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Originally posted by Tiresmoke: **I do have a question to any physics expert.
As light is able to have a frequency and can be measured in wave lenghs, can another wave be modulated to it such as a sound or radio frequency?**
Modulating a wave simply means setting it to a particular frequency. In principle, any wave can be set to any frequency. There are of course physical limits due to quantum theory and limitations due to technology.
Yes. All you'd have to do is find out which frequency excites the components of the hull and use an EM wave of that frequency. It wouldn't necessarily be in the microwave band. You'd need different frequencies for different components, so it would be best to simply go for the frequency that excites whichever component it most essential to hull integrity.
Originally posted by Lumpy the Elf: I was wondering if weapons like the Fusion Pulse Cannon would work, it sounds like it would.
IIRC, they're just balls of hot plasma, so they would probably work.
You could fire lasers for a few milliseconds. Wouldn't affect the range though. The effective range of the shot would depend on the size of the laser, intensity and toughness of target.