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Originally posted by Martin Turner: **Correct spelling, grammar and punctuation is the most important thing in a plug-in. No matter how brilliant the graphics and game play are, most people will give up playing after the first few spelling mistakes because they yell out 'poor quality' faster than anything else. **
I could not agree more. Nothing turns me off a plugin faster than poorly-written text. It could have great graphics, perfect balance, and an intriguing plot, but after the fourth time or so I read a mission like "The comando jumps in you're ship screaming 'GO GO GO!!!!'", out the plugin goes. In fact, I'll take it one step further -- immersive writing is also important, perhaps as much so as correct writing. When I open a plugin, I'm not looking for a ship collection; lord knows there are already plenty of those. A convincing galaxy, run by three-dimensional people operating on interesting agendas is a beautiful thing. If you've played Pale, you'll know what I mean.
-Datax
Another good sign of a good plug is that they updated the spit resource (if they are large). If they didn't, I makes me think that they didn't even test the plug! How could you not notice that they bar stops, but it isn't finished loading?
------------------ "Whoopie! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me." -Pete Conrad third man on the moon
originality is the most important. don't just copy missions and ships. recreate the ships diferently, make new outfits, keep some the same. have creative names for the ships. spelling is vital, not to be rude but i think you should use a spell/grammar check. bad spelling would result in few people playing. many who created small plugs, have horrible spelling for their description.
------------------ Ultimate Rebel-Rebel General leading the Confederates' Demise
(This message has been edited by Ultimate Rebel (edited 04-20-2001).)
Originally posted by Martin Turner: But now back to the miserable present, where the gold of glory has gone out of the world. Where now the horse and the rider? As sometimes throughout middle earth walls piled by the hands of giants...
Dagas sind gewitene, ealle anmedlan eorthan rices; nearon nu cynigas ne caseras ne gold-giefen swelce geo wćron...
Alas for the bright cup! Alas for the mailed warrior, alas for the lord's glory! ... Her bith feoh lćne, her bith freond lćne, her bith mann lćne, her bith mćg lćne, eall this eorthan gesteal idel weortheth.
The great plugs have passed away.
------------------ 'The main failing of the reign of Nicholas Pavlovich was that it was all a mistake.' (url="http://"http://home.earthlink.net/~squibix")Squibix Web(/url)
:rolleyes: That looks like a mixture betweem russian, german and french...
------------------ (url="http://"http://www.wwiiplug.f2s.com/")WW2 Plug-in for EVO(/url) Plug-in I'm working on with a couple of others.
(This message has been edited by Black Beard (edited 04-20-2001).)
Originally posted by Danny: **Dagas sind gewitene, ealle anmedlan eorthan rices; nearon nu cynigas ne caseras ne gold-giefen swelce geo wćron...
**
I wondered if anyone would recognise it.
Ongietan sceal geleaw haele hu gaestlic bith thonne eall thise worulde wela weste stondeth swa nu missenlice geond thisne middengeard winde biwaune weallas stondath hrime bihrorene, hrythge tha ederas.
Isn't that amazing?
------------------ M A R T I N T U R N E R
Can we get a translator over here??
------------------ 2nd generation idiot and proud of it.
Originally posted by Capt. Editor: **Can we get a translator over here??
lol, yeah i think we may need one....unless we can get an omnipotent being in here....
------------------ Kirk - Scotty, we need more power! Scott - I kinna do it captain, I kinna reach the controls...
But this is is English!
(Admittedly it's Old English, but that can't be too difficult, can it?)
Originally posted by Danny: **
Don't be so sure about that.
_bomb
Player involvement and humour. Clavius had some real funny bits, at times it reminded me of the many Sci-Fantasy/Sci-Fi books I've read.
There were funny plugs and over-the-top megalomaniac serious plugs (Frozen heart, Femme Fatale).
I dislike the above mentioned type of plugs. If somethings funny or really involving, I play it. It's half the reason I like RPGs (and I don't mean the new bodge ones like Diablo, I mean real RPGs like Exile, Avernum, Blades) and Military Stratergy (and once again I don't like bodge ones like Starcraft, whose engine is 5 years old!, Age of Microsoftic Empires, etc. Md likes TA and real involved twisted story line games that read like a book).
I hope I havn't offended anyone with either my views or my disgusting use of grammar.
------------------ Majordomo Captain of the Guard
(This message has been edited by Majordomo (edited 04-22-2001).)
Actually, I wrote the English text for the Clavius missions, based very tightly on Thierry's French-English original. I also wrote the text for Oreste (Battle Velocity), based rather more loosely on Vincent Bernard's original.
There is actually humour (with a 'u') in Frozen Heart and Femme Fatale, although the overall dark colouring of the stories means its often quite wry and tends to be in the planet and bar descriptions.
Regards
Martin
Originally posted by Martin Turner: I wondered if anyone would recognise it.
Hehe, you'll note I covered my bases by quoting both Wanderer and Seafarer; I couldn't remember which had the bit about the walls. And in fact, I still can't find where the 'hands of giants' comes into it, though I'm pretty sure you didn't make it it up: I recall that the giants in question were in fact the Romans.
Originally posted by Capt. Editor: **Can we get a translator over here?? **
It is English...
Originally posted by Danny: Dagas sind gewitene, ealle anmedlan eorthan rices; nearon nu cynigas ne caseras ne gold-giefen swelce geo wćron...
Days are passed, all the pomp of earth's kingdoms; there aren't now kings nor caesars nor gold-givers as formerely were... (from 'Seafarer')
Her bith feoh lćne, her bith freond lćne, her bith mann lćne, her bith mćg lćne, eall this eorthan gesteal idel weortheth.
Here is property transitory, here is friend transitory, here is man transitory, here is kinsman transitory, all this earth's foundation vain becomes! ('Wanderer')
Forgive my un-poetic translations: they're designed to show you how easy it really is to read Old English, by being as literal as possible.
And what does this have to do with the topic? Um... you have to take inspiration from these great poems to create a truly worthwhile plug.
------------------ 'Good pitching always beats good hitting, and vice versa.' (url="http://"http://home.earthlink.net/~squibix")Squibix Web(/url)
The giants bit is Wanderer, although most undergrad translators borrow the turn of phrase from Macaulay's Herotius, where he describes (I think in turn inspired by Wanderer) the stonework as 'piled by the hands of giants for god-like kings of old'.
By the way, my favourite ship from Frozen Heart is named after the poem, so that takes us a little bit back onto topic.
Aren't they great poems? But they fade by comparison with Old Norse stuff like Hamthismal, and of course OE has nothing to compare saga wise apart from that funny Cynewulf and Cyneheard bit in the Chronicle with Icelandic stuff like Hrafenkelssagafreysgothi.
Incidentally, for those who are interested, there are liberally scattered quotes and motifs from Old English and Icelandic scattered through all my stuff, for those that know to see them.
Originally posted by Martin Turner: **
Incidentally, for those who are interested, there are liberally scattered quotes and motifs from Old English and Icelandic scattered through all my stuff, for those that know to see them. **
What, like Brunhild in Wotan system? That's the most insanely obvious one I could see.
------------------ Lead plugin programmer, Corsair Development
(This message has been edited by diddlysquat (edited 04-23-2001).)
Well, I was going to add somthing here, but it seems that you guys have already covered everything. Good job. I've already impleted a lot of those into Dark Destiny, but I also found a few new things that i hadn't considered before
------------------ Cuz I'm a 21st Century Digital Boy I don't know the Monty Python but I've got a lotta toys My daddy is a Renegade, his name is Hellcat Helian Wait a second...
Originally posted by diddlysquat: ** What, like Brunhild in Wotan system? That's the most insanely obvious one I could see.
That's more a reference to Wagner. In the novel of the Frozen Heart, Piper has a dream in which he is being called home - "home to hell". This is actually straight out of the denouement of one of the better sagas (can't off hand remember which one). There's a fairly strong element of the supernatural in Frozen Heart (the plugin more than the novel) with things being prefigured (like finding something written in the dust on your console, or the old guy who appears our of nowhere and gives you some advice and then goes away again, or the feeling you get when something terrible has happened to Katherine, or, indeed, the spectral vision of Lindi van Roth after she has died).
This is all straight out studying Icelandic sagas. It was an enormous revelation to me when I realised that the hand of fate which ploughs (or plows) inexorably on in all of the sagas is actually the hand of the author shaping events. We miss this in most contemporary novels, where everything is supposed to evolve naturally from the characters and the situations. I suspect that this is one of the reasons for the popularity of Tolkien - the same hand of fate (and he quotes from a lot of the things I quote from) is at work, giving shape to everything that's written, and significance to all the events. The same for Dune, though at a lower level.
As far as constructing an EVO plugin was concerned, I felt that, without getting into multi-multi-branching plotlines, which the engine couldn't handle and which would have taken for ever to create, there had to be some hand of fate or destiny or predestination to get you away from the 'go to planet x and kill three fighters and come back'. I noticed that this worked very well in Eye of Orion, and was very slightly missing in Angels of Vengeance and Clavius, which seemed to get a bit mechanical towards the end (or at least, working on the text did).
So, maybe what I'm saying is that plugins need some kind of infinity, some kind of larger hand and larger purpose, rather like the Force in Star Wars, and the rather less successful Velan thing in Babylon 5.
Originally posted by Martin Turner: The giants bit is Wanderer...
That's what I thought, though I still can't find it. I confess my Old English is a bit rusty.
I never really got into the Norse poems in the original language, and those quotes from 'Voluspá' Snorri threw into the Edda just destroyed me. If you can translate them with any accuracy, I'm in awe! Of course, you are a professional...
But the sagas I understand, and they seem so much funnier in Icelandic. Maybe it's just me, but I find the the dry matter-of-fact tone of narrative just irrisistable. Those Victorian translators really did us a disservice with their archaisms, I think: that may have been fine for the poetry (even necessary, indeed) but for the sagas the modern treatment is far to be preffered; I think, the more literal the translation the better! I mean, how can you improve:
Thorgrimr svarar, 'viti thér that, en hitt vissa ek, at atgeirr hans varr heima.' Sithan fell hann nithr dauthr.
Now I know that shouldn't be funny, but I can't help it: it is. (And if anyone can tell me how to write thorns and eths on this board it would be most appreciated, though I can't imagine that it would really be widely applicable... I remember I used to be able to do it on a PC.)
Originally posted by Martin Turner: **That's more a reference to Wagner. In the novel of the Frozen Heart, Piper has a dream in which he is being called home - "home to hell". This is actually straight out of the denouement of one of the better sagas (can't off hand remember which one). There's a fairly strong element of the supernatural in Frozen Heart (the plugin more than the novel) with things being prefigured (like finding something written in the dust on your console, or the old guy who appears our of nowhere and gives you some advice and then goes away again, or the feeling you get when something terrible has happened to Katherine, or, indeed, the spectral vision of Lindi van Roth after she has died).
Oh, right. My bad :frown: Though I just noticed Wolf, in Fenrir that works a bit better in a more traditional Norse ideas, though still a little off. To be honest, the only saga I got into was King Haralds saga. Very cool one.
Fenrir is definitely one of them. You may also notice the Yggdrassil stones (named after the world tree, although someone pointed out later that I mispelled it (groan)). Tyr is also a Norse God. Utheim (the system) was one of the nine worlds, and Fimbulwinter (the planet) is one of the signs of the end in Voluspa (first will come the Fimbulwinter...). The nine worlds are, of course, named after the nine worlds of Norse mythology.
Some other (non Norse) references you may have missed:
Sosostris (the planet) after the Fortune Teller in TS Eliot's Waste Land Fortuna (the pirate base) after the goddess Luck in De consolatione philosophiae, and in Carmina Burana. Froom in the Vega system is named after Suzanne Vega's husband Mitchell Froom. The other planet, Suzanne 4, gets its name from the same source. I listened a lot to her music while writing. Shadow is named after the Blakes 7 episode of the same name. Haven in the Jabbah system is named after a planet in Asimov's Foundation and Empire. Heartsease, the pirate world, is named after one of the Changes books by Peter Dickinson, memorably televised by the BBC in the 1970's (what do you mean, you don't remember the 1970's?) Kruger and Smuts in the Rhodus system are all named after people in South African history who contributed to apartheid. They fit with the extreme racist views of the inhabitants. Aurios in the Scorpio system is named after a PA and lighting hire shop just outside Gent in Belgium (ok, so you weren't likely to get that one). Cuenca in the Acubens system is named after a famous make of classical guitar. Yeni Turkiye and Yeni Istanbul are Turkish for, respectively, New Turkey and New Istanbul, based on the planet from the original EV game. Zwaan is Dutch for 'Swan', in the Cygnus system (Latin for 'Swan'). Solvay in the Heze system is named after a famous Belgian chemist who developed the industrial process for producing salt (or was it chlorine). He lived in a town I used to live in. Nightfall is named after the Asimov story of the same name. Cerberus in the Hades system is named after the hound of hell in Greek. Hades is Greek for Hell (kind of). Styx is the river that separates it from our world, and Charon is the ferryman. Demeter was the mother of Persephone, who was taken to be the wife of Hades and brought back for half the year. Argo was the ship in which Jason sailed in pursuit of the golden fleece. Medusa was the Gorgon slain by Perseus who mounted the winged horse Pegasus for the purpose. Hibou is French for owl. The owl was the symbol of Pallas Athene in Greek, hence its place in the Pallas system. The Erinyes were the Furies in Greek mythology, hence the names of the planets, Vengeance and Fury. Nimrod was the huntsman in Genesis, hence his place in Sigma Orionis, named after Orion, the huntsman in Greek mythology. Luther and Faust were figures in the Reformation. Faust, although made famous in Marlowe's Doctor Faustus and Goethe's Urfaust, was a historical figure and an opponent of Melanchton. Koch and Kohl were modern German politicians. Monocerotis means 'one horn', hence the name of the planet, Horn. Delta Monocerotis, in common with most of the stars, is a real star.
There are a few more, but that should be enough to be going on with.
So, to get back on topic, I personally think that a plugin should reference lots of other things (and echo them in the planet descriptions) to increase the depth a little.