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First off, multiplayer.
Skill does not exist in EVO, for one. I'm sorry to say it, it's true. You can't beat the stronger ship, even if the stronger ship's pilot is unexperienced. If anyone ever makes EVO multiplayer, I dare ANYONE to take me on in an un-upgraded Voinian Dreadnought. It won't work, no matter what ship you pilot (excluding escorts and Azdgari shield generator invincibility)
So, the fighter problem.
People think the Azdara is good. What it comes down to is firepower. On a 2D scale, firepower is everything. A Crescent Fighter can absolutely slaughter an Azdara if it has pursuit missiles (used in a rocket-pursuit tactic, fired at close-impossible to evade- range)
And you can't evade phase cannons when align is used.
The Azdara just can't cut it in the real game.
The Krait? It's terrible, but would people please understand the cost matter? "Swarms don't matter, everything is deadly in swarms" someone said. Well, there's a difference between 30 Kraits and 30 Azdaras - 30 Kraits cost as much as one Azdara.
Pardon, I got the 1500 from a 10,000 to a Krait matchup with a 15 million credit warship, and it stuck in my head before I got confirmation.
But still, 30 AI Kraits beats 1 AI Azdara, with incredible ease.
Opinions?
(continued from "Dumbest Ships")
------------------ That's all very nice, but where are the guns? - SilverDragon
Opinions? Sure, I think the Azdara is a better vessel than the Crescent Fighter.
You keep saying "if" when refering to Crescent Fighter armament and outfits. In that case, what is wrong with giving the "if"s of an Azdara? If an Azdara has a layer of dospect armor, four swivel phase cannons, a few shield enhancers and minor outfits, it can trash anything. And if you have the space, buy a speed upgrade. I'll admit that a standard Azdara will usually fall prey to Crescent Fighters, but realistically, the Azdara would be a born killer (and it already is).
No, it doesn't all boil down to speed. You must conisder the advantages and disadvantages of each fighter. The Azdara has speed and meneuverability (I can't fly without it) and some moderate firepower, while the Crescent Fighter has shielding and firepower to boast about. It's all the player's choice.
------------------ -Cap'n Skyblade (url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics. the United Earth Graphics Expansion Set: Coming soon
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: ** You keep saying "if" when refering to Crescent Fighter armament and outfits. In that case, what is wrong with giving the "if"s of an Azdara? If an Azdara has a layer of dospect armor, four swivel phase cannons, a few shield enhancers and minor outfits, it can trash anything. And if you have the space, buy a speed upgrade. I'll admit that a standard Azdara will usually fall prey to Crescent Fighters, but realistically, the Azdara would be a born killer (and it already is).
**
21 tons. How do you expect do fit another swivel phase, a "few" shield enhancers, minor outfits, speed upgrades? You can fit a Dospect, and you have 1 ton left. My friend, the Crescent Fighter you can UPGRADE, the Azdara you barely can at all.
Anyway, the Crescent Fighter has AVERAGE shields for a fighter, and is fast. Stop trying to make it look like some kind if heavy fighter!
(This message has been edited by SilverDragon (edited 09-17-2001).)
A CF with pursuits can kill an Azdara? No way. The damage a pursuit does to an Azdara is regenerated within a second or two.
Oh yes, and that point about how it'd take 30 kraits to kill an Azdara......that should tell you something right off. And I'd bet ya even money that if it was 30 kraits vs. 1 azdara, even if the kraits win quite a few will go down in the process.
And yes, the CF does have better shields, but that's offset by the Azdara's regeneration abilities.
On a final note, the Zidagar fighter easily blows away all the aforementioned ships. Phased beamers hurt so badly.....
------------------
(quote)Originally posted by SilverDragon: **21 tons. How do you expect do fit another swivel phase, a "few" shield enhancers, minor outfits, speed upgrades? You can fit a Dospect, and you have 1 ton left. My friend, the Crescent Fighter you can UPGRADE, the Azdara you barely can at all.
In my copy of Override, I've taken dospect armor down to ten tons, and taken bronev armor up to fifty tons (just seems more logical to me). I've got four swivel phase cannons (one purchased) on my Azdara, as well as a few minor outfits.
Yeap, you can certainly find space to upgrade the crescent fighter, but that just makes the Azdara a more challenging, fun fighter to fly.
------------------ -Cap'n Skyblade (url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com")Saber Studios(/url)** - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics. the United Earth Graphics Expansion Set: Coming soon
Strategy is everything. Take the Azdara, Making runs on a Zidagar Warship, using astroids and speed to outrun missles. Running off to let it's shields recharg when it get hit to heavaly.
Take the same Azdara, Sitting still, making a frontal assault on a Zidagar Warship.
Now, which one has a better chance for survival?
------------------ Elliott, Just Elliott "Idgazdra? They can't keep up to us!" Batzubane@mac.com
Originally posted by Thogroar: **Strategy is everything. Take the Azdara, Making runs on a Zidagar Warship, using astroids and speed to outrun missles. Running off to let it's shields recharg when it get hit to heavaly.
Well said. Your first choice is what the Azdara is all about...
Zidagar Warship????? If you mean the Zidara, it has no guided weapons.....
I agree, the Azdara is a good ship, it has a better chance of taking on a capital warship and surviving using that method than any other fighter.
But then, taken cost-wise, the UE Fighter is probably the most effective fighter in the game (imo).
------------------ (No Shuttlecraft were harmed in the making of this post)
Scoff EV:O will never become a multiplayer game. Besides the idea being rather lame (Can you imagine TWO players, each with fighter bays and escorts?) systems with anything less than a bazillion MEGs of ram would lag too badly to make the game enjoyable.
On the topic of everybody's favorite fighter, I don't really like it that much. Perhaps I'm just bitter that the Agrizaiblahgarbles never delivered their new shield generator, but the Azadra(Sp?) doesn't really fit my preferred flight style. While I love the speed and shield recharge, the simple LACK of shielding poses a problem for me, for I enjoy firefights rather than hit and run warfare. In multiplayer, the fighter wouldn't be such a hit. No matter what the shield recharge is, a decently outfitter CW could poke it with a repulser beam, blast away with phases turrets and get a dispersal rocket off. No more pretty green ship.
------------------ Battler of the unjust Forklift. And still blowing up them Strands, 'cause the Aggies haven't given him the new shield generator yet.
(quote)Originally posted by UE Crusader: A CF with pursuits can kill an Azdara? No way. The damage a pursuit does to an Azdara is regenerated within a second or two. (/quote)
Rocket-pursuit is different. You get two in on the first pass, and all your phase power. That's enough damage to waste one IN that second or two.
(quote) ** Oh yes, and that point about how it'd take 30 kraits to kill an Azdara......that should tell you something right off.
(quote) Originally posted by Captain Skyblade And you, my friend, stop making the Azdara look like sime kind of krait. (/quote)**
It's a Krait. A little larger, a little better armed, faster, and with better regen. It's a Krait. It's in the same boat, just a few times better and 30 times more expensive.
(quote) ** In my copy of Override, I've taken dospect armor down to ten tons, and taken bronev armor up to fifty tons (just seems more logical to me). I've got four swivel phase cannons (one purchased) on my Azdara, as well as a few minor outfits. (/quote)**
I'm awfully sorry that I didn't take your cheats into account.
But seriously......
(quote) ** Yeap, you can certainly find space to upgrade the crescent fighter, but that just makes the Azdara a more challenging, fun fighter to fly. (/quote)**
They are both fun to fly, and yes, it sometimes is fun flying at those insanely high speeds. But if you try to go up against any player with a Crescent Fighter or better, you won't last. What it comes down to, though, is that that's my opinion. Anyone want to make any posts about the multiplayer part?
(quote) ** Strategy is everything. Take the Azdara, Making runs on a Zidagar Warship, using astroids and speed to outrun missles. Running off to let it's shields recharg when it get hit to heavaly.
Now, which one has a better chance for survival? (/quote)**
A true player won't fire missiles when you're going anywhere but straight at it, and with your handling there's no time at all to evade them. A true player will hit you with a horde of phase turrets, rockets, missiles, clicking "w" again and again with "shift" to switch secondaries as they reload.
A true player will head you straight on instead of firing turrets at the slightly inaccurate side arc.
Oh, yeah, and tractor/repulsor. The latter is more effective against the Azdara than the former, actually.
SilverDragon
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **I'm awfully sorry that I didn't take your cheats into account.
(B)**
I hardly consider the mentioned statistics "cheats..." If I were attempting to outfit my Azdara by way of cheating, believe me, I'd have hundreds of swivel phase cannons and better shielding than an Igazra.
------------------ -Cap'n Skyblade (b)(url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com")Saber Studios(/url)
Erm.... You make items weigh less, so you can fit them on your ship comfortably. That's really a cheat...
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **Erm.... You make items weigh less, so you can fit them on your ship comfortably. That's really a cheat...
Not really. I believe any player has the right to alter ship stats any way which seems realistic. Even a normal stock Azdara is a powerful foe in the right hands. I've been able to take down a few Igazras at a time in one...
Originally posted by UE Crusader: ** On a final note, the Zidagar fighter easily blows away all the aforementioned ships. Phased beamers hurt so badly.....
UEC, you should know better, a ziddie fighter cant hurt a fly. Here is an accurate listing of fighters, in order from best to worst (not including cost) Azdara Zachit fighter zidagar fighter crescent fighter UE fighter voinian interceptor voinian heavy fighter emalgha fighter Krait now this is stock. if you put a CF bay on a VHF, obviously it could beat a single CF.
------------------ =Spread the Chaos=
Originally posted by SilverDragon: **Erm.... You make items weigh less, so you can fit them on your ship comfortably. That's really a cheat... **
First off, the Azdara has 27 tons of free space, not 21. Secondly, there are 3 swivel phase cannons installed off the shelf.
27+6+6+6=45
2 Swivel Phase Cannons=12 Dospect Armour=20 2 Shield Enhancer=5 1 Shield Booster=3
12+20+10+3=45
Just one of the many ways to outfit an Azdara.
Oh, and a crescent fighter only has 65 tons of space total, not that much more then an Azdara. (No, thats not counting the 5 tons of cargo space, but you can't really use 5 tons of cargo for much.)
Originally posted by SilverDragon: Skill does not exist in EVO, for one. I'm sorry to say it, it's true. You can't beat the stronger ship, even if the stronger ship's pilot is unexperienced. If anyone ever makes EVO multiplayer, I dare ANYONE to take me on in an un-upgraded Voinian Dreadnought. It won't work, no matter what ship you pilot (excluding escorts and Azdgari shield generator invincibility)
Assuming I ever finish AO, you're on! (don't suppose you have a broadband conection?)
Originally posted by SilverDragon: People think the Azdara is good. What it comes down to is firepower. On a 2D scale, firepower is everything. A Crescent Fighter can absolutely slaughter an Azdara if it has pursuit missiles (used in a rocket-pursuit tactic, fired at close-impossible to evade- range)
Really now, that's just you're opinion, not nesceserraly the truth.
Originally posted by SilverDragon: The Krait? It's terrible, but would people please understand the cost matter? "Swarms don't matter, everything is deadly in swarms" someone said. Well, there's a difference between 30 Kraits and 30 Azdaras - 30 Kraits cost as much as one Azdara.
Actually, for the cost of one Azdara, you can have 150 kraits, not 30. (10,000x150=1.5 million)
Originally posted by SilverDragon: Pardon, I got the 1500 from a 10,000 to a Krait matchup with a 15 million credit warship, and it stuck in my head before I got confirmation.:)
It might be helpful to the rest of us if you worded your sentences better, and didn't leave out the $ signs.
Originally posted by SilverDragon: But still, 30 AI Kraits beats 1 AI Azdara, with incredible ease.
Sounds about right.
Actually, I think if you give it the enhanced shield generator, which drops shield regeneration by 50, and the azdaras is already 40(?) I think it raises it shields by 10. then, if you give it the other upgrades and dospect, it is practically invincible. I came across a pers. one and there was two igazras in the system, plus my igazra escort. it managed to finish them all off! I think its name was the A.S.S. Frivelous.
Yeah, but that counts with EVERY fighter, 'cept Kraits, which just blow up anyway.
And AO, I'm fairly certain the stronger will win. Unless you go up against AI, in which case....
And it's not just my opinion, it's my opinioniated fact. <smiles> Not that that makes any sense........
I dunno, this is just my two cents worth. Personally, I have the hardest time with the Aradas when it comes to fighters, don't remember which one. Been awhile since I've played normal EV:O, probably about 2 years. Hmmm, maybe that had something to do with EV:O corrupting my pilot file so the Igazra I worked so hard to get was turned into a shuttle!!!! (Wasn't using any plugins, either) Personally, I prefer warships over fighters, cuz I like wading in and ripping apart a few crescent warships in one pass as opposed to flying circles around them, but that's just me!
Payback37
(This message has been edited by Payback37 (edited 09-19-2001).)
Ok, the first sentence in this topic stated that there is no such thing as skill in evo. Wrong. I can take out (and have regularly) a huge south tip renegade fleet (made up of c.warships, laziras, aradas, fighters) in an unupgraded crescent fighter, by my self no escorts. How? Skill. You also said you'd beat anyone in an unupgraded dreadnought:
1)You say there is no skill in evo - so how does anyone complete the voinian dreadnought mission I wonder?
2)Would you beat me if I had an unupgraded voinian dreadnought too? It would all depend on who was more skillful. Frankly I reckon I'd take ya any day.
So basically there is skill in evo and that is undisputable.