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As of EVO 1.0.2, just about all of the players' foes have the ability to use an afterburner; increasing their speed to 175% as well as dramatically increasing their thrust too (I don't remember by how much). The only problem is that the computer doesn't keep track of AI ships' fuel, so, basically, your enemies have unlimited afterburn capability!
Yes, we players can take advantage of various AI stupidities, but now, even if you're in a crescent fighter (which doesn't have nearly enough utility for my tastes), any stock ship with a speed of 260 or greater can outrun you (unless you have an engine upgrade - in which case any ship with a speed of 305 or greater can outrun you).
In an Arada with an engine upgrade (opinion: the fastest ship with utility in EVO), any ship with a speed of 215 or more can outrun you! Meaning that any renegade or hostile strand can take you down in terms of speed and thrust. Monty Pythoning (gunning your opponent while staying just ahead of them - out of their range) certainly loses a lot of its effectiveness.
Limited afterburners I'd be fine with, but infinite. I've looked through the entire EVO plug section and didn't notice any plug that addresses this (I'm ResEdit ignorant) :frown: Can anyone tell me if they're working on, have, or know of a plug that could return AI speeds to their original level? Please? I feel like I'm a sumo in a marathon event.
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(quote)Originally posted by Miyun: **As of EVO 1.0.2, just about all of the players' foes have the ability to use an afterburner; increasing their speed to 175% as well as dramatically increasing their thrust too (I don't remember by how much). The only problem is that the computer doesn't keep track of AI ships' fuel, so, basically, your enemies have unlimited afterburn capability!
Limited afterburners I'd be fine with, but infinite. I've looked through the entire EVO plug section and didn't notice any plug that addresses this (I'm ResEdit ignorant) :)). If this is true(I'd need to install EVO again to find out :p) than the only thing that comes to mind is either reduce speeds of all the ships that do have afterburners so that when they use them their speed will only be something like 125% of the original speed instead of 175%. That wouldn't be too efficient though. There is the AI Skill Variant so that even if they are always using the afterburner it is not guaranteed to be very fast. But I never noticed ships always moving faster than normal in 1.0.2 and don't think that I had trouble pulling off the Monty Python. Of course I haven't played EVO for a while now. So someone else will probably be more helpful than this post
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Not every enemy uses full afterburn. So far, I've seen the following:
Full afterburn used by: Crescent renegades, Strands, Voinian military, human renegades, maybe Miranu crescent fighters, maybe UE military.
Afterburn not used by: mission related enemy ships, traders.
I've determined all of this just using my eyes, so I can't guarantee it, but the difference between a ship using afterburn on full and one that's not is very obvious.
P.S. Azdara swarms are particularly deadly. :eek:
Thanks for the help. Hope there's more.
The answer is of course, to fit your own afterburner, and use it.
Naturally, you're at a disadvantage. Don't forget that ships defending their own system - and carried fighters - can afford to use ALL their fuel up. They don't arrive in-system with half-empty tanks, and they don't have to save fuel for jumping out.
A steady tap, tap, tap on the afterburner key doesn't deplete your fuel as much as you might think, and it still allows you to stay ahead of the pack if you're in a reasonably decent ship. If you have twin fuel scoops, you'll hardly notice the fuel level go down.
I'm pleased that fighters were made more deadly in version 1.0.2. Consider historical precedent; in air warfare fighters are much more dangerous than bombers. The Monty Python tactic had to be made obsolete somehow, and it's silly to have devices in the game that the player can use but which never get used against him. All in all, I'm in favour of the change.
You could write a pluglet that changes the 'AI uses afterburner' flag for certain ships... but I doubt if changing the definition of the outfit resource 'afterburner' would change the speed of AI ships on afterburner. I suspect that's hard-coded.
If you feel really hard done by, there's a plug called 'kill engine mass' which makes the speed, thrust and RCS upgrades weigh zero, so you can pack them into a small ship if you want them. Yeah, it's a cheat, but to people who are used to the mass-free upgrades of EV, it seems fair.
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Originally posted by VoinianAmbassador: **The answer is of course, to fit your own afterburner, and use it.
I do.
Don't forget that ships defending their own system - and carried fighters - can afford to use ALL their fuel up. They don't arrive in-system with half-empty tanks, and they don't have to save fuel for jumping out.
Someone at Ambrosia (Charmin? or something) said that the computer doesn't keep track of AI fuel = AI's have infinite fuel.
I do that too. Currently, I use a fully outfitted Lazira (Arada was too risky when confronted by swams of angry Azdaras).
All in all, I'm in favour of the change.
Yes, it does make the game more interesting if not a little limited in player ship selection.
If you feel really hard done by, there's a plug called 'kill engine mass' which makes the speed, thrust and RCS upgrades weigh zero, so you can pack them into a small ship if you want them. Yeah, it's a cheat, but to people who are used to the mass-free upgrades of EV, it seems fair. **
Thanks for the suggestion.
oops! How do I put quotes inbetween my responses?
Click on the 'UBB Code is ON' link on the left to bring up a summary of the syntax required.
Basically, you needed to add a (/b)(/quote) (end bold, end quote before "I do", and then start the b and quote tags again afterwards. I can't write them as they would appear, or it'll freak the board out.
Anyway, you know what I mean. You could copy and paste them from elsewhere in the field. Happy UBB'ing!
I disagree with your assesment that ai ships have unlimited afterburner use. It may seem that way if you just run straight away from them (they don't need to spend any fuel maintaining their speed, just attaining it). I agree with voinianambassador; judicious use of your own afterburner can be very effective. You can make ai ships use their fuel up, and hence lose the use of their afterburner, by running circles around them. They'll deplete their fuel supply changing directions to follow you. I like the change in 1.02. It made me change my tactics, much like EVN will make me reinvent them again. Necessity is the mother of invention.
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Originally posted by wes: **I disagree with your assesment that ai ships have unlimited afterburner use. It may seem that way if you just run straight away from them (they don't need to spend any fuel maintaining their speed, just attaining it). I agree with voinianambassador; judicious use of your own afterburner can be very effective. You can make ai ships use their fuel up, and hence lose the use of their afterburner, by running circles around them. They'll deplete their fuel supply changing directions to follow you. I like the change in 1.02. It made me change my tactics, much like EVN will make me reinvent them again. Necessity is the mother of invention.:) **
I don't mind the problem that much anymore, but I've certainly tried what you've stated here. Afterburners seem to use about 100 units (one jump) of fuel per second on full. Using afterburn in spurts for turning will certainly prolong its usage, but not as much as I tested it for - I constantly circled around a Voinian Frigate that was clearly using afterburn for MORE THAN TWO MINUTES, and the Voinian was still pulling strong.
Also - the player (and the AI is probably the same) CAN'T maintain afterburn speed once they've attain it without using the afterburner whether going in a straight line or not. - Go straight, attain max afterburn speed, release afterburner . . . you'll notice your ship slow down to maximum regular speed.
(quote)Originally posted by VoinianAmbassador: **Click on the 'UBB Code is ON' link on the left to bring up a summary of the syntax required.
Basically, you needed to add a **(/quote) (end bold, end quote before "I do", and then start the b and quote tags again afterwards. I can't write them as they would appear, or it'll freak the board out.
Anyway, you know what I mean. You could copy and paste them from elsewhere in the field. Happy UBB'ing! (/B)(/QUOTE)
Thanks. I'll try that.
Originally posted by Miyun: **I don't mind the problem that much anymore, but I've certainly tried what you've stated here. Afterburners seem to use about 100 units (one jump) of fuel per second on full. Using afterburn in spurts for turning will certainly prolong its usage, but not as much as I tested it for - I constantly circled around a Voinian Frigate that was clearly using afterburn for MORE THAN TWO MINUTES, and the Voinian was still pulling strong.
Also - the player (and the AI is probably the same) CAN'T maintain afterburn speed once they've attain it without using the afterburner whether going in a straight line or not. - Go straight, attain max afterburn speed, release afterburner . . . you'll notice your ship slow down to maximum regular speed. **
Yeah, I have noticed that, but it seems a pitfall the ai ships somehow sidestep. My strategy is to circle round them, make them use the afterburner until they're going full speed towards me, then turn again. Just want to make sure we're on the same page here. Or, it could just be I like faster ships then you do.
I currently use a Lazira with all engine upgrades and 3 phase turrets + lots other stuff. The recommended tactic, or at least one similar to it, of flying rings around a pursuing ship using the afterburner in spurts has proved very useful in taking out fighters and even phase turret equipped vessels. This tactic seems to be much easier if only one ship is in your visible area, but against one ship, it's certainly effective. Thanks people.
I think I've actually used this tactic for fun a number of times on slower ships without using my afterburner.
Thanks for helping open up a new channel in my brain. "Brain. What's that? Pai no have one of those." - Pai from 3x3 Eyes
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