Rebel Cruiser Vs. Confederate Cruiser

Damn, Hamster! That's even scarier than the few people out there that have Nova 1.0.0 still.

OK. visserthree@sbcglobal.net wants EV 1.0.0. I have EVO 1.0.0 and Nova 1.0.0 readily available, but not EVC 1.0.0.

Haha, EV: Collector's Edition--with special bonus ships!

I had EV 1.0.0 on the old machine. It's fun-easier to play through than EV 1.0.5. Being a pirate actually pays off.

-Bob

...

This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 10:58 AM

I think maybe an arena mod needs to come out.

A rapier fully loaded with torps could more than likely handle your Confed brick. Fine, it would take thirty or more, but the tactic would work unless you had a really good way to dodge..

Or we load up rockets, turn up the res intolerably high, use a laser cannon for a tracer (we wouldn't want to miss that cruiser. That would be a bit of a blow to our pride), and disintegrate you that way. Launching missiles (or worse, torps) at said rapier would be useless, because, like the Rebel Destroyer, with engine upgrades, it could outrun them without an afterburner. Once again, hit-and-run tactics would rule the day.

WickTownEV, on Jun 10 2005, 12:29 PM, said:

First of all, Erikthered, when you said, "In the right hands, with the right tactics, a Rapier can outfight a Confed Cruiser. ", you illustrated a statement which was built on completely false grounds. You made a statement that didn't really state anything at all. For one, who flies the Rapier? And, who is flying the Confederate Cruiser? Well, based on what you said, it seems apparent that you were refering to a fully-outfitted Human-Piloted Rapier battling against a standard computer-piloted Confederate Cruiser. Well, not only isn't that realistic to compare the two in that way, but also, of course a fully-fitted Human Rapier could take down a computer Confed. Cruiser, it could also take down two Rebel Cruisers at one time, But, does that mean that any kind of fitted rapier comes close to matching any kind of cruiser? Obviously not. You can't compare human vs. computer in a realistic fight in order to exemplify accuarate statistics. This is because there is no computer on this earth that can do anything whatsoever that is REMOTELY close to what a human can do in any subject or topic imaginable.

Okay, now for a realistic statement along the grounds on which you were pointing out:

1. A fully-fitted Computer Rapier would die a terrible death against a lightly-fitted Computer Confederate Cruiser.
2. A Fully-fitted Human Rapier would die a terrible death against a lightly fitted Human Confederate Cruiser.

View Post

No Wick, there was nothing false about it. "In the right hands, with the right tactics, (human or computer, but obviously better than the normal AI), etc..." is a perfectly legitimate statement, and it states exactly what it does, which is not nothing, mind you. Your statement it too black and white anyway, because it does not leave room for variences. Whether computer or human, with the right tactics, a rapier can take down any ship in EV (multiple ships is a little different story). You say it is not a realistic statement, when it is. Given the abilities of the weaponry, the ships and so forth, I can take down any cruiser in the game (and I am sure more that are not in the game) with a slightly better than stock (as in only a couple extra rockets and torpedoes) Rapier. I am sure I could do it with a stock rapier, as well. Of course, I never said a stock Rapier piloted by the AI in EV could take down a stock Cruiser piloted by the AI in EV. That does not mean, however, that what I said is wrong, since, in the right hands (mine), with the right tactics (mine), a rapier can take down a cruiser.

This post has been edited by erikthered : 11 June 2005 - 04:27 PM

...

This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 11:01 AM

WickTownEV, on Jun 10 2005, 09:29 AM, said:

2. A Fully-fitted Human Rapier would die a terrible death against a lightly fitted Human Confederate Cruiser.
View Post

You insult me.

Ok, lets compare damage per second for AI stuff (all weapons with .6 or more reload is rounded to the nearest second)(fighters not included):

Confederate Cruiser:225/150 + 17.5/32.5 = 232.5/182.5
Rebel Cruiser: 112.5/75 + 37.5/37.5 + 252.5/166.25 = 402.5/228.75

Rebel Cruiser: 402.5/228.75 | 173% more shield destruction | 125% more armor destruction
Confederation Cruiser:232.5/182.50
Difference: 170.0/046.25125%

Now factor in shields and armor:

Confederate Cruiser: 800u/100u
Rebel Cruiser: 500u/80u
Rebel D/S - Confed shields/armor: 397.5/-128.75 : 2 seconds and dead. 49%/128% damage
Confed D/S - Rebel shields/armor: 267.5/-108.5 : 2 seconds and dead. 53%/135% damage

They're roughly even, now lets factor in their shield regeneration shall we?
Rebel D/S - Confed shields/armor: 397.5/-128.75 + 0.63/00.0 = 368.13
Confed D/S - Rebel shields/armor: 267.5/-108.5 + 0.84/00.0 = 268.34

Theyre still gonna die in 2 seconds each.

My findings are thus:

The confederation cruiser packs less of a punch but has 60% more shields and 20% more armor. The rebel cruiser packs more of a punch but has less armor and shields. The Rebel cruiser gets 53%/135% damage per second.The rebel cruiser might be able to outrun rockets and stuff, but the AI is not very good at strategy so they will take the full force of the attack and think nothing of it. So if they were at close range, both would disable/destroy each other. Now, if we were factoring in fighters, it would be another story because you cant do damage per second with fighters. The Rebel cruiser gets 53%/135% damage per second and the Confed cruiser gets 49%/128% damage per second. So from those results, the Confederate Cruiser can hold up to more damage than the Rebel counterpart.

**Results:
Confederation Cruiser: Dead in less than 2 seconds.
Rebellion Cruiser: Dead in less than 2 seconds.

The Confederation Cruiser, if used properly, will destroy the Rebellion counterpart.**
It all comes down to your fighting style.

WickTownEV, on Jun 19 2005, 11:38 PM, said:

some utterly unimportant ramblings
View Post

Wick, thats your opinion. You see that word, Opinion, look it up. Just because you believe something doesn't mean its right. When you get some FACTS (screenshots, movies, anything that can hold up in court) then dont tell people theyre stupid and should shut up. You started this thread. You should have known that people would have differing thoughts than your own. In closing, get facts or shut up.

Good day,
The Cheat

This post has been edited by The Cheat : 22 June 2005 - 10:21 AM

...

This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 11:03 AM

Those figures are quite right. Thats if they actually hit with all their weapons then stopped after every second. If you think its wrong, you figure it out.

...

This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 11:04 AM

I didn't understand what you wrote so thats why. And shame on you for trying to predict that this forum would not have strong opinions on what ship is the best. Predicting this forum is like trying to predict where lightning will strike. Doesn't happen. Everyone will try to convince you that one is the best. Its human nature to get everyone like yourself so that you feel loved.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. What you described is called a FACT. Totally opposite. If people weren't entitled to an opinion then the world would SUCK. Everyone would think the same way and we would still be trying to get the bugs out of our loin cloths.

Its "Topic" not "Forum". It says "New Topic " not "New Forum ".

In closing,
Your pissing me off, looking stupid, and im ending this. Time to test out the ignore function!

This post has been edited by The Cheat : 27 June 2005 - 07:22 AM

...

This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 11:06 AM

WickTownEV, on Jun 23 2005, 08:52 PM, said:

An opinion is backed up by a substantial amount of research, study, and trial if possible, NOT an emotional response triggered by your brain that clouds reason and realistic thought.View Post

Not according to Oxford, which says: opinion - a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

It also says: A view is an opinion that is affected by your personal feelings or biases his views on life were essentially optimistic), while a sentiment is a more or less settled opinion that may still be colored by emotion.

So, apparently, an opinion can be affected by emotions, etc., and DOES NOT need to be based in fact, research, study, or trial.

P.S. I'm not taking any sides here (other than the Rebel Cruiser's superiority), just trying to clear stuff up.

P.P.S This post reflects my opinion. I have done research, and am supporting my opinion with fact. Regardless of the fact, my opinion is still an opinion. I believe that the word you are looking for (an opinion based in facts and research, etc.) could be hypothesis, but a hypothesis is unproven. Theorem also comes to mind. The word for concept you are trying to express is rather elusive.

This post has been edited by Killer Bob : 29 June 2005 - 09:31 PM

WickTownEV, on Jun 23 2005, 08:52 PM, said:

No, sorry The Cheat, this forum was brought up with no intention or need to prove which ship is better, it was merely a way for me to see why such a large amount of people like to say the weaker ship is better.
View Post

The weaker ship is better because a good captain can use it's speed to utterly destroy the slower sturdier ship. Ask anyone who knows what they're talking about. That's why the Arabs won the crusades, why Wallace killed so many English, why a dart can kill a raven in EVN, and why aircraft carriers have destroyers escorting them. Slugging matches are a bad for the winner as well as the loser and they are what the slower ship's captain prays the faster ship's captain is to stupid to avoid.

...

This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 11:07 AM

Wicktown, shush-all you're doing is making yourself look like an idiot.

It would depend on the parameters of the battle-if we were to assume that the ships involved are stock vessels, piloted either by both AIs or both humans, and that both ships are out of fuel and have their communication systems damaged (thus preventing any reinforcements from either side from being brought in), the following would happen with AIs, and would possibly happen with humans, assuming that the ships actually fight-or move and dodge with the intentions of fighting, and then seek to continue the battle when possible-if it comes down to a simple retreat-fest, of course the Rebel Cruiser will win.

Research has proved that in a battle between the two AI ships-one Confed Cruiser and one Rebel Cruiser, plus their fighters-would result in a Cruiser victory. It isn't very close, either, although it might look it. The Confed Cruiser usually ends up with at least 25% shields.

As far as a human-human match goes with stock ships, well, it'd be close, but I believe the Confed Cruiser would ultimately prevail. The fighters can only inflict so much damage on the other Cruisers, the Mantas probably being slightly more effective-but the Rebel Cruiser has less shielding it can lose. After the fighters are dead and gone, it comes down to what the ships have. If the Rebel Cruiser closes in to use heavy rockets, the Confed Cruiser can torpedo it as it comes in-admittedly, that's not much time, but the Confed behemoth can at least fire off all of its torpedoes before the Rebel Cruiser can unload all of its rockets. In a long-range missile battle, the Rebel Cruiser couldn't actually win, as it would only do the Confed Cruiser damage-and shield damage isn't enough to win the fight; the Rebel ship would have to move in afterwards. Ultimately, though, it'll come down to a slugfest-and because the Confed Cruiser has neutron blasters, it'll probably win. The fight could probably go either way-but the Confed Cruiser definitely has an advantage.

But the AI field, at least, is cleared up-the Confederation Cruiser would prevail there.

You might ask, "But what about modified ships?". The thing is that you can tinker with these ships to the level where they stop being their original design-you can make destroyers like fighters, or freighters like cruiser (carriers), or do pretty much anything you want. A battle between Raymond's Confederation Torpedo-Cruiser, using all of the armour and shield enhancements a ship can get and tons of torpedoes on top of that versus Bob's Rebel Cruiser loaded up with speed enhancements and extra missiles (at the expense of the heavy rockets) stops being a fight between a Rebel Cruiser and the Confed Cruiser and becomes a fight between the idea of a Rebel Cruiser and a Confed Cruiser. It can't be taken into account-hah, anyone could win if they had the right outfits. What matters is how the existing stock ships would perform.

Anyhow, that's my essay for the evening-if you'd like to see this plugin, you can contact me through a private message for it.

Thanks all,
Bob

Something else: Are there rocks to hide behind? This kinda has an effect on missiles.