Rebel Cruiser Vs. Confederate Cruiser

Over all, what takes the home the prize?

Poll: Better Ship for fighting: Confed. Cruiser or Reb Cruiser? (29 member(s) have cast votes)
Better Ship for fighting: Confed. Cruiser or Reb Cruiser?
Confederate Cruiser
(13 votes [44.83%])
Percentage of vote: 44.83%
Rebel Cruiser
(16 votes [55.17%])
Percentage of vote: 55.17%

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This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 10:50 AM

I have to go for the Rebel Cruiser. First off, it looks cooler. Second, speed is always important. If you can't outrun your enemy, then you're as good as dead (unless your enemy is much smaller than you). Any tactician will tell you to go for speed and maneuverability over sheer power. Next, the Rebel Cruiser's shields recharge a heck of a lot faster than the Fed Cruiser, and shield recharge rate is much more important than original shield power (unless your opponent has vastly better shields and armor). Buy some shield mods, an afterburner, and the maneuverability upgrades, and your good to go. I agree that Patrol ships are better than Mantas in some situations, but I'm not sure about this one (Mantas work better in groups, patrol ships work better 1-on-1.) Mantas look cooler too.

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This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 10:51 AM

First off, be careful when you post topics. You don't want them to double like this. mrxak around?

You can change your picture here.

I said Rebel Crusier (even though I prefer the Rebel Destroyer). Mainly for most of the reasons Killer Bob already stated. I have seen the two crusiers go at each other alone in a system (I was of no assistance to either, I wanted to see what would happen). The Rebels won.

Rebel Destroyer. Solid shields, four turret mounts, unmatched speed (outruns missiles with upgrades), and room to expand.

EDIT: Not only do Mantas look cooler, but they're the default skin in Matt Burch's free ExoBattle game (I want to play somebody in that). That, and they're faster and more agile than patrol ships.

This post has been edited by The Apple Cřre : 02 June 2005 - 12:45 AM

The Apple Cřre, on Jun 1 2005, 09:42 PM, said:

Not only do Mantas look cooler, but they're the default skin in Matt Burch's free ExoBattle game (I want to play somebody in that) View Post

Ooh! This sounds interesting. Where can I find it? Can you post a link, or send me a PM with instructions on how to find it? I'd play you (even though I'd probably lose the first 15 times or so <_< ).

Oh, one caveat. Does it tun natively in OSX, or just through classic? It would be a bit harder for me to play you if I had a framerate of 1 (no I don't mean one per second, I mean one frame total.)

This post has been edited by Killer Bob : 02 June 2005 - 12:56 AM

Destroyer E, on Jun 1 2005, 09:09 AM, said:

I said Rebel Crusier (even though I prefer the Rebel Destroyer). Mainly for most of the reasons Killer Bob already stated. I have seen the two crusiers go at each other alone in a system (I was of no assistance to either, I wanted to see what would happen). The Rebels won.
View Post

I agree with everything here, except that in fair, unaided AI battles, I've never seen a Reb Cruiser best a Fed Cruiser. That is because of the Fed's better slugging match stats, and the AI's combat skills being only slightly better than those of the asteroids that they fail to hide behind. But who wants to fly a stock ship anyway?

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This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 10:53 AM

I say Rebel Cruiser, because the Confederate cruiser was built (indirectly, of course) by slave labour. THe Rebel Cruiser represents freedom and beauty.

Besides that, the Rebel Cruiser is more aesthetically pleasing, and when upgraded properly, can fly circles around the "feared" Confederate Cruiser. While killing it. KILLING IT! Even upgraded, the Confed Cruiser is just too slow...so I say Rebel Cruiser, modified to be even faster, to have more armour, and to have heavier weaponry. Then it almost rivals the Confed Cruiser for strength, but a skilled pilot can make up that remaining difference.

And who wants to fly that clunky Confed Cruiser, anyway? (Besides you, WickTown) Since I don't need to worry about meeting a souped-up Confed Cruiser, I choose the more stylish route. However, if this were real life, I'd stick with the Confed Cruiser...because my chance of meeting another souped-up Confed Cruiser would be lower if I had one first...because that's just how things work, according to Murphy's Law...whch seems to be mostly accurate in today's world.

So, yeah...long post. w00t (which makes no sense in this context, as it stands for "We Own the Other Team.")!

I still like the Kestrel. Prettier than both, and I can take down either at my leisure (learned from the best - my Dad...for real). Because I'm just that good.

Okay. Long post over.

Later!

Wow, this topic must have happened like a bajillion times in the past. It's like a virus. Unavoidable, deadly, and impossible to kill.

<EDIT>
...kill for good, that is. More of it are always there.
</EDIT>

This post has been edited by Dash_Merc : 02 June 2005 - 08:51 AM

WickTownEV, on Jun 2 2005, 06:42 AM, said:

I'm a little suprised by the responses. I mean, it's more fun to use a rebel cruiser no doubt, but, the shield on a rebel cruiser is 500, which is good, but the shield on a confed cruiser is 800! That is 60% more shield

For the reasons Killer Bob mentioned. Power isn't everything. I prefer to incorporate skill and finesse (and somethimes a little maniacal glee) into my victories... much more fun!

ExoBattle is a freeware game by Matt Burch. The only ways I can think of to get it are PMing either mrxak (I sent him and a few others a copy) or myself. Unfortunately, my copy of ExoBattle is on an IDE drive, HFS formatted, which Mandrake refuses to read the partition table from, so maybe you better try mrxak first. My 6500 died (only machine I had capable of reading that drive), so it will be a while before I can get my files back. Should've put everything on that SCSI drive...

But, yeah, Rebel Cruiser, but I like the Rebel Destroyer better, because it will fly with a Corvette (before engine upgrades), wear better than twice the damage, carry twice the turrets, more other things, and... yeah.

And not to mention the fighter swarm thing, releasing all fighters at an instant...

The Apple Cřre, on Jun 2 2005, 02:42 PM, said:

Unfortunately, my copy of ExoBattle is on an IDE drive, HFS formatted, which Mandrake refuses to read the partition table from, so maybe you better try mrxak first.View Post

PM inbox... overflowing...

Aaaaiiiiiiieeeeeee!!!!!

But uh, yeah, I do have a copy of it... somewhere. Unfortunately that somewhere is in a computer that's in a box on the floor. I've just moved back home for the summer from my first year of college, and my main computer is not set up yet. I've been using my laptop and the family iMac for a week or so, but it doesn't have Exobattle on it anywhere (as far as I know, I will check later on).

Anyway, the point of this post is that if you PM me, I will get back to you eventually, but hang on a bit. Email is prefered, however, it won't speed up my getting the goods to you any quicker. I just prefer email.

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This post has been edited by WickTownEV : 02 March 2007 - 10:53 AM

WickTownEV, on Jun 3 2005, 06:22 PM, said:

And quicker regeneration of the shield of the rebel wouldn't make a significant difference because it is something like, .8 of a point of shield armor a second to .6 of a point a second regeneration, which not only is an insignificant amount, the fight would be so short in a one on one battle that it wouldn't matter, neither side would have time to regenerate much at all.View Post

This is where tactics come in. If you put a Fed Cruiser alone in a system with a Rebel Cruiser and let 'em duke it out, the Fed would probably win. BUT, if you had human pilots with the same (moderately good) skill level, the Rebel Cruiser would usually win, and this is why:

The ability to recover quickly in a battle is one of the most tactically valuable things in the world. Even a .1 difference can be big. Now, high shield regeneration doesn't really help you much if you're being perpetually pounded by the full barrage of a souped up Fed Cruiser, and that is where the speed comes in. If you have a better shield recharge rate than your opponent, and are faster/more maneuverable than him, then you can go in, shoot him up a bit, run away, let your shields recharge, go in again, shoot him up again, run away again, let your shields recharge again -- rinse and repeat. This is generally called "whittling" your opponent's health away. It's one of the main concepts behind the "Hit and fade" tactic (which I'll get to in a minute). Your higher recharge rate allows you to recover lost health more quickly than your opponent. Thus, if you use the tactic I just mentioned "whittling" your opponent will be recieving less damage than you, but the health he loses will be much more valuable.

The "Hit and fade" tactic is most often employed by people who have a smaller, quicker, less powerful force at their disposal than their opponent, and is the basis for guerilla warfare. The objective of a hit and fade is to do as much damage in as little time as possible. This tactic could be employed by the Rebel Cruiser, being the faster of the two, but not the Fed Cruiser. What you would do is choose a weapon (I like torpedos for this tactic), run far away, turn around, fly straight at your enemy, and start firing. You can easily pack in thirty torpedos (how much damage is that?) using this tactic, and, if done correctly, they will all hit simultaneously, not giving the fed cruiser a chance to regenerate at all. Meanwhile, the Rebel Cruiser can either choose to stay and finish off the Fed Cruiser (much easier after those thirty torps hit), or run off and do it again. This tactic, while dealing massive amounts of damage to your enemy, will only keep you in his gun range for about a second. This works out greatly to the Rebel's benefit.

Another thing you can do with a faster ship is to get behind your opponent, rendering almost all secondary weapons useless (especially if you are in an asteroid field/nebula with a missile jammer. While you pound your opponent at point blank range with anything (or everything) you want, he can only hit with turrets and the occasional lucky torpedo, missile, or bomb.

I have just shown how the Rebel Cruiser can, in the right hands, outfly, outgun, and outfight the Fed Cruiser. No matter how much you improve the Fed Cruiser, you can always make the Rebel Cruiser quicker, more maneuverable, and faster healing than any Fed ship. The Rebel Cruiser has far more potential than any Fed Cruiser.

Let's face it, if you can't hit your enemy, and he can hit you, then you're toast. If you can occasionally hit your opponent, but his shields recharge more quickly than yours, then you're toast. If you're opponent can deal 30+ times the amount of damage that you can in the same amount of time, you're toast.

P.S. Destroyer E: I like the Rebel Destroyer too.

P.P.S. Dash_Merc: I agree wholeheartedly, the Rebel Cruiser represents peace and freedom in the galaxy! It won't be long until the tyrannical rule of the Confederation is over for good! Unite! Fight the Power! Power to the people! We want our cheese!

P.P.P.S. WickTownEV: Oh, and about the fed cruiser being faster than torpedos in a "hit and fade" type situation there are ways of making them hit.

Edit: The Rebel's sprite is also a little smaller than the Fed's, making it even harder to hit if used correctly.

This post has been edited by Killer Bob : 05 June 2005 - 05:50 PM

You know, I've never been a huge fan of the hit and fade. That's what makes mantas, gunboats, hawks, lightnings, and those annoying little crapships with two-jump capacity of which I have forgotten the name so...annoying.

I do the fly-circles-around-your-opponent-while-staying-behind-it approach, taking minimal damage (just turrets), while pounding away. This is difficult in inertialess ships (Nova), but it can be done. I took out a (Nova) Fed Carrier with a Vell-Os Arrow. No chance at all, but it happened. I almost took one out with a dart. Wow, eh?

Speed can make the difference. That's how we got America; lack of brute force, inclusion of finesse. Any good karate teacher (any branch of matiral art) will tell you that brute force is no match for properly applied finesse. THe two-inch punch doesn't work through brute force....that just hurts your knuckles on the opponent's chest. With the proper technique, and a lot of finesse, anything can be done, like knock a sturdy 300-pound guy flat on his ass with only a twist and a flick.

I have never seen a Rebel Cruiser take out a Confed Cruiser without the assistance of another ship. Usually, by the time the battle is over, the Confed has about 20% shields. This is for several reasons. The Confed has the more powerful torpedoes as opposed to the missiles. While they do not have heavy rockets, they do have more turrets, and the neutron blasters help in the back jousting style that the AI uses. The Confed Patrol ship, though a little slower and less maneuverable, is still a better fighter than the Manta, and is usually a good part of the reason the Confeds win.

However, if the Rebel Cruiser had the same shields, I think it would likely win. I would rather fly a Rebel anyway, since I am not the AI, and I know how to use its strengths.

Sure, the Confeds have torps...but they suck at using them.

Besides that, The Confeds do have heavy rockets. I got hit by a few myself. It sucks.

I wish Mantas were better...

The Confed Cruisers (the topic here) do not have heavy rockets.

absolutely sure?