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quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: Kender, you have obviously not read a single bit of Mac's mod post. It would all make sense if you did so.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Actually I did, sure it makes sense, but did you read my points? Well here they are...
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: Capital bases are permitted to have a defense fleet hand-picked by the Dreden player (and I will be picking that defense fleet shortly). True, I might only have 500 million credits to spend, but as Mac pointed out, these guys are the elite of the Dreden Navy (and likely to inflict many more losses). Mac also pointed out that capital system defense fleets are controlled by a member of that government. Be sure you know where you're coming from before posting your complaints. (/B) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It sure didn't say that in the rules. Mac conveniently pointed all this out after we had already expended effort attacking it. Are you assuming that Ipvicus's imperial fleet wasn't elite as well? Surely skyblade the elite dreden are among your fleet.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: Therefore, we must now re-do the Battle of Dreden. I requested that the alien players stop the attack on Dreden while I waited for Mac to answer a few urgent questions, but they didn't. Since they didn't stop posting, all those posts have to be void now. If the aliens decide to attack again, chances are they'd win (about 60% chance or more). The only reason I voided the attacks on Dreden was because we hadn't picked a defense fleet for the system, and weren't given a chance to post for it. Make a bit more sense? (/B) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You made no request, you just brought up a question to mac. We made one attack post after that. I on the other hand made a request for you all to stop posting while mac considered the problem. It was completely ignored. You guys captured: Tifton, Xerxes, Brex, Exerd, Masada, Camden, Tarkard.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: You're right, I specifically told you and grundy that you couldn't hand pick a fleet for core worlds. And Mac didn't even make the rule about players picking their own defense fleets and given command for capital systems until after the attack on Dreden had already begun. (/B) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Exactly, he made the rules after we already attacked.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: Numbers mean nothing, my friend. Tactics are what matters. I happen to have every single German operation and armored tactic down (from Rommel to Balck, you name it. I've studied every aspect of WWII tactics for the past seven or so years), and the German forces of World War II were constantly able to defeat forces five to eight times their size, especially on the Eastern Front. If you know what you're doing, then being outnumbered isn't a problem. It's the commander and the quality of your fleet, and how well your operations are carried out. (/B) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course tactics matter. I know my history very well too. The Germans had superior technology and superior men against the Soviets on the way to Stalingrad. Their war tactics cannot be compared to stellar battles between spaceships. You cannot say that the Dreden have superior ships and men then us. I had the impression that you were with your fleet in Exerd, not sitting home in Dreden. Tactics may matter, but numbers do not mean nothing.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: Surrender not accepted. We're going to re-do this. If you're upset about the Dreden battle being re-done, then you can fuss to Mac about passing that rule. (/B) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You don't have a choice. Go ahead and destroy our fleets then. I'm upset at it being redone since that the whole point was to take your capital without our capital being taken. Well that's obviously too late. I am "fussing" to Mac. I don't intend on wasting any more effort on this. I coordinated the attack with my comrades perfectly the first time. There is no second opportunity.
quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: If you were in our shoes, wouldn't you want to pick your own capital defense fleet and command it? It's the most important system of the game, geez. (/B) --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I were in your shoes, I would truly accept a well planned victory. You may not lose any sleep redoing it, because you have nothing to redo. You have no idea how long Grundy, Ipvicus, and I spent the last three days planning this campaign out with tight details and precision. You have no idea of the wasted effort we spent planning the movements, purchases, and tactics of all our fleets in coordination with each other, and to have pulled it off perfectly but rejected. The proposition of redoing all of this, and with our capital obviously dead, is not particularly appealing. I don't intend on wasting any more effort on it after so many hours planning it out. The chances of winning against you dreden with your latest battle posts even discluding Sentarus prime: 2 %. Chances of recovering against the HC even if we did take dreden: 5 %. You won, good game. I was annoyed at how this was handled, but a game is after all a game. Oh well.
Skyblade, there is absolutely NO golden opportunity. What are you talking about? Don't delude yourself, there are 6 commanders and fleets right next to my capital. Woopdeedoo. Sorry to make you waste time typing out more stuff about dreden and your fleets, but it's over. I don't intend on making any more wasted efforts that would yield pointless results. If you wanted Ipvicus to take it slow, my capital would be gone by the 2nd post, no question whatsoever. I really hope this isn't your idea of "fair," Skyblade and Mac, applying from the beginning of this entire thing. Good game and let's leave it at that.
------------------ Go Red Sox! Down with the Yankees!
Scratch that. Sorry. I was looking at something completely different. My bad... ------------------ --ares (url="http://"http://www.saberstudios.f2s.com/")Saber Studios(/url) -- (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url)
"A towel is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have." -- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
(This message has been edited by ares1 (edited 01-09-2002).)
/Me sits back and avoids posting the exact same points I made before.
Mac voided those posts for everyone's own good, and it's obvious neither way is going to make you happy. Sorry.
------------------ (url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net")Saber Studios(/url) - Your source for original EV/O/N graphics. GameRanger: -Sß- Captain Skyblade | Battle.net: Skyblade86 (url="http://"http://home.cfl.rr.com/aresev/")The Legion(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.gameranger.com")GameRanger(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.evula.com/")EVula's Lair(/url) | (url="http://"http://www.meowx.com/")Meowx Design(/url) (url="http://"http://saberstudios.evula.net/evwebstory")An EV Webstory(/url) - Coming soon to the EV forum.
Zipping alon on a T3. Heh... Got ta love the mac store..
So I gess I've missed a lot. Could some one tell me what the **** is going on.
/me is on a Dule G4 800 1.4 gig ram ...
Jager
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Read it in the bfs thread haha
My post was inquiring as to whether or not a president for the confeds has been chosen for BFS IV. I'd be more than happy to volunteer
------------------ I love the arcade. There's this one game near the middle where you put in a dollar and win four quarters, and I win every time! They even have games in the bathrom, look! I won a balloon!
Quote
Originally posted by Kender: ** Skyblade, there is absolutely NO golden opportunity. What are you talking about? Don't delude yourself, there are 6 commanders and fleets right next to my capital. Woopdeedoo. Sorry to make you waste time typing out more stuff about dreden and your fleets, but it's over. I don't intend on making any more wasted efforts that would yield pointless results. If you wanted Ipvicus to take it slow, my capital would be gone by the 2nd post, no question whatsoever. I really hope this isn't your idea of "fair," Skyblade and Mac, applying from the beginning of this entire thing. Good game and let's leave it at that. **
Your golden opportunity is the capture of Dreden. That is what I'm talking about... You seem to have this problem with overlooking your advantages and only seeing the enemy instead.
If you're upset about six enemy warfleets about to attack your capital, why did you send your most powerful fleet south to pick on the capital? Interesting.
Reason why Dreden battle was voided: I asked Mac if the defending government could handpick and command the defense fleet of the capital. The alien attack continued even after I requested it to stop (since I was waiting for Mac's reply). The reason it was voided was because your player failed to listen, and a new rule would have re-done everything anyway.
Reason why the Sentarus battle was voided: Close to the exact same reason. The aliens didn't pick their own defense force, and they were overwhelmed before they had time to post back. In fact, I think this Sentarus battle was more serious than the Dreden... If you don't call this fair, then I don't what is fair to you.
Hope I'm not coming across as angry here. No hard feelings, man, just trying to keep this story going and as uncomplicated as possible.
Originally posted by BariSaxGuy5: **My post was inquiring as to whether or not a president for the confeds has been chosen for BFS IV. I'd be more than happy to volunteer:D
**
Unless David Arthur gets the position, Rak already requested the position earlier today. Sorry about that.
But while we're on the subject, we could always use more Confederation players. If you're willing, please join as a fleet commander.
awww dreams are crushed, sob. Na, I'd rather not be a confed unless I were a commander. By the way, can I be a merc too or is it only a 1-slot position?
Originally posted by BariSaxGuy5: **awww dreams are crushed, sob. Na, I'd rather not be a confed unless I were a commander. By the way, can I be a merc too or is it only a 1-slot position?
Well, if David Arthur cannot join, then Rak will be President, and you could take the Vice President position if you liked...
Sure, you can be a mercenary. They don't have a leader, and fight for whoever will pay them.
sweet, sign me up for that
Originally posted by BariSaxGuy5: **sweet, sign me up for that:)
Ok, will do. Hey, those Rebel guys absolutely love mercenaries to help them with the dirty work...
In regards to the next EV Webstory, I should like to sigh up under the Confederation, if possible. I would like this.
------------------ Apply When Wet
Originally posted by ZenMastaT: **In regards to the next EV Webstory, I should like to sigh up under the Confederation, if possible. I would like this.
Certainly. I'll update the website immediately.
From Mac's Mod Post in the RPG...
Originally posted by Mac:
KK, I'm afraid your post will have to be essentially void...
No....
Firstly, you have to tell us where you've gone.
No. a) I was unable to get into either the story thread or the discussion thread for DAYS because of UBB, Internet, whatever problems. ZMT had a "field day" with my fleet -- and I did not even know I was being attacked. c) YOU changed your own rules and allowed (ordered?) ZMT to continue attacking my fleet, nearly obliterating it. (Just as IRL war, technological problems like mine ... happen. That's life, and I have not protested ANY of the crazy losses I incurred at Pollux.) d) I am still trying to catch up on all the BFS related posts since my technological glitch -- and this is the busiest / craziest time of the last several months for me, so I have limited time to catch up. You are just gonna have to live with a little "pirate anarchy" on this point. I'll let you know where I went when I'm caught up.
Second, even if you could take the defense fleet with you, the one you listed is way to big....
There you go again, Mac. You did not state this in the rules. You changed it to suit your own hubris. But I have altered my fleet to fit your pique.
And third, how you think you can escape from a partial englobement by fast fighters shooting(basically) guided Javelins with no losses is beyond me.
Well I guess you HCers are not the omnipotent tacticians you have been pretending to be, huh? (And after looking in three dictionaries I have not found "englobement". So I can only assume you are making up words -- as well as physics and natural laws.)
After reading most of the threads, trying to reaquaint myself with the flow of the story, I have concluded that you, Mac, have allowed your mod power to go to your head. I hope you will consciously try to temper your obvious bias in the remainder of the story.
(NOTE: As of Wednesday 10:27 pm ASW time I cannot spend any more time on this until Friday, at the earliest. Sorry, but this story is not even in the "top 6" of things on my list currently. I'll be back Friday.)
- KK
------------------ Courage stands halfway between cowardice and rashness, one of which is a lack, the other an excess of courage." ... Plutarch
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: Reason why Dreden battle was voided: I asked Mac if the defending government could handpick and command the defense fleet of the capital. The alien attack continued even after I requested it to stop (since I was waiting for Mac's reply). The reason it was voided was because your player failed to listen, and a new rule would have re-done everything anyway.
I'm gonna have to agree with Kyle on this one. A new rule shouldn't be initiated midgame, because then it can foil someone's perfectly legal attack. I think that any rule changes should occur after the game is over. Oh and by the way, I want to be a mercenary in the new game, ok Skyblade?
------------------ "We're heroes, you and Boo and I, hampsters and rangers everywhere, rejoice!" -Minsc
Kyle's in the right, you can't just make up rules mid-game. Odd question, but in the EV webstory, could there be instances of mercenary fleets being hired to fight one another?
------------------ Crime is the entertainment of the fool; so is wisdom for the man of sense. Proverbs 10:23 (url="http://"http://www.geocities.com/spl_cadet/")Coming eventually, spl_cadet shipyards!(/url)
Originally posted by MadcaT033: I'm gonna have to agree with Kyle on this one. A new rule shouldn't be initiated midgame, because then it can foil someone's perfectly legal attack. I think that any rule changes should occur after the game is over.
It wasn't a rule change, it was a misunderstanding.
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl: No.
Doesn't matter, we still have to know where you are. Until you tell us that, your post is void, no matter what else. That is a rule. You cannot move to an unknown location, whatecer the circumstances, for reasons that should be fairly obvious. Your lack of presence (which I understand is not your fault) already had negative effects on the story, which is why I let Zen post twice the first time. The story has to move somewhat. I gave Asriel a long time to step in and take over for you, and he didn't do it.Similarly, we can't have you languishing in an unknown location until Friday, or longer. Just doesn't work.
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl: There you go again, Mac. You did not state this in the rules. You changed it to suit your own hubris. But I have altered my fleet to fit your pique.
It has previously been established that defense fleets cannot leave their home systems. This isn't new, though you may not have been around for that part, however you are misjudging me.
I should also point out the rules are somewhat out of date, as I haven't had time to update them along with everything else, so there are some errors, omissions, and misunderstandings in there, mostly dating back before we started that have surfaced later. Don't take those as the absolute last word. I have to rememeber not to assume that players know a few basic elements of webstories next time I write something like that.
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl: Well I guess you HCers are not the omnipotent tacticians you have been pretending to be, huh? (And after looking in three dictionaries I have not found "englobement". So I can only assume you are making up words -- as well as physics and natural laws.)
Right back at you. The Pirates almost never try to explain any tactical maneuvers - miracles just happen for your fleets, but no one really knows how. OTOH, the HC tactics have substance - I describe what I'm doing, and how, and (if pressed) why certain enemy responses would fail. So far, no one has been able to refute any of my tactical maneuvers, except by attempting to twist the rules against me. I ought ot know what can and can't be done (as far as my own actions), since I wrote the rules in the first place. I suggest you guys go learn a few maneuvers, rather than just mysteriously doing things. I do have some respect for your "Surf's up" deal, but I've seen this kind of broad thing (escaping with no losses from a surrounding hemisphere of fighters coming in to kill you, with no explanation whatsover) all too often from the Pirates.
I defy you to find one place I have violated natural laws, beyond the extent that EV already does. EV is far from a perfect physics model, but I have been operating under the constraints of it, along with some modifications that have been used repeatedly by many people in this and the previous webstory. As for englobement, it's the 3D version of encirclement, which any competent dictionary should have, especially given that OS X's Cocoa spell checker which is rather incomplete (knows Colorado, but not Nebraska, for example) has it.
Originally posted by Kaptain Karl: After reading most of the threads, trying to reaquaint myself with the flow of the story, I have concluded that you, Mac, have allowed your mod power to go to your head. I hope you will consciously try to temper your obvious bias in the remainder of the story.
I will not attempt to dispute that the power has gone to my head somewhat, as that is called basic human nature. I vehemently detest the implied level of your statement, though. Moderators are picked as they are for the purpose of finding people who would do this the least. I have been working to temper my bias the entire time, and I think I've been about as successful as could be expected. Believe me, there have been plenty of times, especially dealing with Stingray engagements, where I think the HC probably could have done significantly better than it did, even after I've moderated posts. Given how hard I study pretty much every ship design in the story, I know the capabilities of all sides quite well.
I just looked over the Alien posts capturing Dreden, and you know what guys, you'd need to rework them anyway. Using the mines against the Dreden doesn't work - not the way you did it. I seem to recall Skyblade specifically pointing out that the mines were stealth type, and didn't show up on sensors. So you couldn't have blasted out his main ships that way. You've also got some problems involving the TLRTs, don't assume ships are going to just lie there dead once snared. Your Tractors aren't long enough range to keep the Dreden from unloading their projectile weaponry while you've got them. That whole battle was shot through with unfairness anyway. So quit whining about the voiding of it to let the Dreden defend themselves. Besides, what else would be the purpose of not allowing single post battles against capitals? Just to delay the inevitable or something? Besides all that, I don't see anywhere that you defined what the defense fleet was before you started mauling it. You seem to have an interesting idea of fairness.
------------------ - Macavenger | e-mail: (url="http://"mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com")mailto:e-gamerguy1@attbi.com(/url)e-gamerguy1@attbi.com
Mac allowed me to continue attacking you KK, because my attack on you was holding up my ability to do anything within the story. I wasn't aware when you attacked Pollux that my engaging you would prevent me from doing anything else, and so that was my action. The absurd losses you took there were designed to totally destroy your fleet, so that I could eventually leave the system, and I tried to be quite reasonable inflicting losses on myself as well, you may notice I lost almost 100 stingrays alone, as well as a few capital ships, (an Enterprise even) when I could have continued posting and obliterate you.
Anyways, all the destruction incurred on you at Pollux was only because it was taking too long for you to come back, but I didn't really want to basically one post destroy your fleet, so I kept postponing, and now, eventually, you have shown yourself again. Well, keep posting on Friday, and I would at least be willing to accept your current post as long as you don't later use it to your advantage, by springing out somewhere random that you know we would have planned against, had we had the proper ability to know where you were. However, my orders are to pursue you, and that is up to Mac, but I didn't break any rules fighting you, I don't think, and so you probably shouldn't break any when fighting, or not fighting, me.