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Thinking about governments (I have a lot of free time on my hands right now; I'm sick at home), I realized that the Confederation in EV isn't really a confederation, but it's much more of a federation. It has a centralized and powerful government, and there is little that individual planets are responsible for. Is it a mark of the corruption of the system, or am I missing something?
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Originally posted by Starkiller: **Is it a mark of the corruption of the system, or am I missing something?
**
Sounds about right to me. I guess the "Confederation" part only hints at a unity of worlds united for a common cause. The Confederation of Escape Velocity does very much remind me of the Trade Federation from Star Wars: Episode I.
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They're called confederation because Matt Burch didn't want to copy Star Trek.
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Federation = Good guys in Star Trek Confederation = "Bad" guys in US Civil War
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Originally posted by Starkiller: It has a centralized and powerful government, and there is little that individual planets are responsible for.
How do you know this? There isn't really much in the game that gives any indication as to how division of power is handled in the Confederation. Anyway, my guess would be that, like many governments do, it was a highly confederal system when it began as a military alliance against the aliens, but as people started to think of themselves as being from the Confederation rather than from their individual planets, power started shifting towards the central government. The same sort of shift has happened in both the United States and Canada, so it's what I would expect here too.
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: The Confederation of Escape Velocity does very much remind me of the Trade Federation from Star Wars: Episode I.
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. The Confederation is a government, whereas the Trade Federation is a commercial organisation. Unless the similarity is that you don't like either of them, I don't see what you mean.
Originally posted by Macavenger: Federation = Good guys in Star Trek Confederation = "Bad" guys in US Civil War
I think any attempt to draw comparisons to the US Civil War will result in highly convoluted arguments, as the Confederate States of America were the rebels.
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Originally posted by David Arthur: **How do you know this? There isn't really much in the game that gives any indication as to how division of power is handled in the Confederation. **
It is stated the the Confederation is power-hungry, which is a sign of centralized power. Also, they don't seem to be for independent planets, as evidenced by their imperalism.
(This message has been edited by Starkiller (edited 12-21-2001).)
Originally posted by David Arthur: **I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here. The Confederation is a government, whereas the Trade Federation is a commercial organisation. Unless the similarity is that you don't like either of them, I don't see what you mean. **
I was aiming for the goals of both sides. When it comes to the politics of the two governments, they certainly vary. But one thing they do have in common is their imperialistic spirit, hunger for power, lust for complete control.
And no, I don't like either of them.
Originally posted by.... I think Andrew **It's just a game! **
Have you noticed that that quote comes in handy on every topic of this board.... almost?
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(This message has been edited by The Space Between (edited 12-21-2001).)
Originally posted by Macavenger: **... Confederation = "Bad" guys in US Civil War
Funny, I was taught that the Confederacy were the good guys and the damnyankees were the bad guys in the War of Northern Aggression
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Originally posted by The Space Between: **quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by.... I think Andrew It's just a game! ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have you noticed that that quote comes in handy on every topic of this board.... almost? **
First of all, I believe that it was Matt Burch who said that.
Second of all, this is about the game, and it's not reading TOO far into it. I'm integrating EV with politics.
Originally posted by Joe Burnette: **Funny, I was taught that the Confederacy were the good guys and the damnyankees were the bad guys in the War of Northern Aggression:D
Yeap, I would have been a southern boy back then as well. I always read that the Confederates were the "bad guys," until I spent months of research regarding the politics of each side. Slavery was more of an excuse for the Yanks to attack the south. Constitutionally, the Confederates did the right thing...
Yeap, it was Matt Burch who said that.
Originally posted by Starkiller: It is stated the the Confederation is power-hungry, which is a sign of centralized power.
The fact that somebody calls a government power-hungry is not sufficient evidence upon which to base constitutional extrapolation.
Originally posted by Starkiller: Also, they don't seem to be for independent planets, as evidenced by their imperalism.
What makes you say the Confederation isn't for independent planets? They trade quite peacefully with a number of independent planets, most (if not all) of which were once Confederation memebers.
Originally posted by David Arthur: **What makes you say the Confederation isn't for independent planets? They trade quite peacefully with a number of independent planets, most (if not all) of which were once Confederation memebers.
I disagree. I think that they are not holding them because of the war: the Confederation must fight the rebellion.. If there was no armed rebellion, there would be no independent planets.
Originally posted by Captain Skyblade: Yeap, I would have been a southern boy back then as well.;) I always read that the Confederates were the "bad guys," until I spent months of research regarding the politics of each side. Slavery was more of an excuse for the Yanks to attack the south. Constitutionally, the Confederates did the right thing...
hey, I put bad in quotes for a reason. The Civil War was far from a black & white issue. The South had some reasons that were at least somewhat legitimate. I don't see how you can say they did the Constitutionally correct thing though, since I don't recall our Constitution permitting secession.
Originally posted by Macavenger: **hey, I put bad in quotes for a reason. The Civil War was far from a black & white issue. The South had some reasons that were at least somewhat legitimate. I don't see how you can say they did the Constitutionally correct thing though, since I don't recall our Constitution permitting secession.
On the other hand, many of the Southern states felt that they had entered into an mutal agreement for their benefit, and they were thus allowed to break it off.
Originally posted by David Arthur: The fact that somebody calls a government power-hungry is not sufficient evidence upon which to base constitutional extrapolation.
Large words...can't deal...with...these...on...vacation...
/me sits back and watches the argument...
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Um, I see where SK has a point. I think I'll stay out of another discussion, I'm still worn from the last few.
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Originally posted by Starkiller: I disagree. I think that they are not holding them because of the war: the Confederation must fight the rebellion.. If there was no armed rebellion, there would be no independent planets.
So very little is known about the independent worlds to support speculation in either direction. For all we know, they followed a clause in the Confederation constitution allowing them to withdraw by giving a 6-month notice, promising no aggression against the Confederation, (No doubt a provision the Rebellion failed to abide by, if they ever agreed to it in the first place.) and left peacefully.
This may actually explain why the Confederation doesn't attack the independent worlds but attacks the Rebellion.
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In that case, though, why would the Confederation be fighting the rebellion but not the independent worlds? For that matter, if that was the case, why wouldn't the independent worlds be more sympathetic to the Rebellion, if not actually members of it? htjyang has already stated the explanation that has always seemed most sensible to me, although in my version the planets also had to take a plebiscite to make sure it wasn't just the government that wanted independence.
Originally posted by David Arthur: **In that case, though, why would the Confederation be fighting the rebellion but not the independent worlds? For that matter, if that was the case, why wouldn't the independent worlds be more sympathetic to the Rebellion, if not actually members of it? htjyang has already stated the explanation that has always seemed most sensible to me, although in my version the planets also had to take a plebiscite to make sure it wasn't just the government that wanted independence.
Eh, you got me there. I still think that the Confederation is more of a Federation, though.